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StewCal

Fell out of Sky Today

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This was a first for me:  Was on a stable approach on the ILS 24R approach into LAX this morning when I disconnected the autopilot at about 1000 ft and suddenly nosed over and plunged into the ground.  NTSB investigating...

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Sounds like I can expect a new episode of Air Crash Investigation/Mayday next year!  ^_^ 
In all earnest, did it tip over? Did it just dive to the ground?

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Yes, very tragic.  Great replay though!!

 

Happened very quickly with no warning...Transcript of CVR:

 

Oh #&@#!

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Hee hee, I too experienced a stall on landing! I think the AOA is a lot shallower than many planes and it has to be 'flown' onto the runway a lot more than other aircraft...

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Hee hee, I too experienced a stall on landing! I think the AOA is a lot shallower than many planes and it has to be 'flown' onto the runway a lot more than other aircraft...

"'flown' onto the runway" That's the key, it's really easy to pull too much power off at the wrong moment.

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"'flown' onto the runway" That's the key, it's really easy to pull too much power off at the wrong moment.

 

Hi Mike, sure... it's surprising how disappointed I was with myself afterwards!

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Hi Mike, sure... it's surprising how disappointed I was with myself afterwards!

Don't be to hard on yourself Howard, if like me you use the throttles for reverse, it's quite easy in the Dash to pull back a tad to far.....Boy is that fun or what!!...;-)

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Hee hee, I too experienced a stall on landing! I think the AOA is a lot shallower than many planes and it has to be 'flown' onto the runway a lot more than other aircraft...

Airspeed? Stall horn?

This was definitely not a stall. Everything was perfect on the approach. I think the flight dynamics engine disconnected with FSX or something. It literally fell out of the sky.

 

Cool replay from tower view....HE HE...

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It's interesting to note 2 people had that problem (if I'm reading Capt. Farhadi right). Did the stabilizer go full forward with you as well, Steve? Or was it a completely different reason that caused you to crash?

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It's interesting to note 2 people had that problem (if I'm reading Capt. Farhadi right). Did the stabilizer go full forward with you as well, Steve? Or was it a completely different reason that caused you to crash?

yeah,you got it right.when i disengaged the A/P,stab went to full forward(full nose down)and when i use trim buttons,didn't recover.i turned the YawDampers off,and nothing happened.i'm a real life pilot(IranAir A320) and it was very similar to Upset Positions that we had a class about 6 months ago.i know how to recover an A320 from a situation like this,but i'm not even familiar with Q400.very similar to some 737s that they had something like this with rudder in 90's(rudder jam that caused by Heat shocking rudder servos)

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had this  the other  day noticed  that my trim was set   to nose  down  when I switched off  the a/p so wondering if  this  could be the cause  of it next time  going to make sure  the  trim is set  to zero  before  turning off the a/p

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i think this happens when autopilot works with both of elevator and stab trim.this is a AP bug,pulls back elevator and makes nose down trim(for example if your control surfaces arent neutral,and you engage AP,if the AP has some programing bugs,AP will do something like this situation).when you disengage AP,your in AP's trap!but still wondering why trim wont come back,in these situations,we do as below on airbus,hope a Q400 pilot help us

1-if AP is in command,disengage it

2-full stick back,whatch stab postion on FLCRTL page of SD,if trim wasnt coming back,go to step 3;else,use pitch trim to speed up your emergency climbing

3-if CM1 is PF,Turn ADIRU 2 & 3 off and if CM2 is PF,Turn ADIRU 1 & 3 off to enable direct law,then use manual pitch trim to recover aircraft.

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Did my first flight since the crash today.  All went well even if my hand was shaking as I disengaged the autopilot....

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Should report this in the Majestic Software forum, if there's enough detail I'm sure the devs will investigate.

 

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I had this happen two days ago. Stable approach on AP, at about 1500ft AGL, I disconnected the AP and the plane went nose down. Not lightning fast, but as if I were pushing forward pretty hard. I immediately pulled all the way back and held the trim button to get full nose-up deflection. It shallowed out a bit, started to come back up, but I still hit the ground hard enough that it would have collapsed the gear in RL and probably have killed people. My rate of descent was still pretty high. When I hit the ground, the plane was pretty much completely level with the ground aka no flare. I bounced and then settled backed to the runway.

 

And I know that I was 5-10 knots above approach speed the entire time this was going on. It was as if I had VERY little control over pitch. However, I did start to drift to the left while this was going on, so I kicked in some right rudder, and that was definitely responsive. But as for pitch and roll, there was very little, if any, control.

 

Only happened once and hasn't shown up again.

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I had this happen two days ago. Stable approach on AP, at about 1500ft AGL, I disconnected the AP and the plane went nose down. Not lightning fast, but as if I were pushing forward pretty hard. I immediately pulled all the way back and held the trim button to get full nose-up deflection. It shallowed out a bit, started to come back up, but I still hit the ground hard enough that it would have collapsed the gear in RL and probably have killed people. My rate of descent was still pretty high. When I hit the ground, the plane was pretty much completely level with the ground aka no flare. I bounced and then settled backed to the runway.

 

And I know that I was 5-10 knots above approach speed the entire time this was going on. It was as if I had VERY little control over pitch. However, I did start to drift to the left while this was going on, so I kicked in some right rudder, and that was definitely responsive. But as for pitch and roll, there was very little, if any, control.

 

Only happened once and hasn't shown up again.

was your nose at about -90?and seems your trim hadnt locked like mine.

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I too had this issue. A/p disconnect nose hard over from trim setting. Was not able to recover as I was at 1500AGL. Very sad.

 

 

Justin whetstone

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Hi,

 

Had the same problem a couple of days ago on the approach to EDDF.

No chance to recover :-(

 

Kind regards

Martin

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This is probably a very far shot, but isn't the dash 8 suceptible to icing on the wings? That will lower the stall threshold. What were the weather conditions?

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