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Jacoba

Liquid Cooling, is it necessary?

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I'm spec'ing out a new gaming rig and I am wondering if the liquid cooling is really necessary?

 

Here the specs via Cyber Power PC that I'm looking at... any suggestions are very welcomed!

 

 

Configuration

  • *BASE_PRICE: [+1216]
  • CARE1: Ultra Enhanced Packaging Solution - Protect Your Dream System During Transit [+19]
  • CARE2: Cooler Master Thermal Fusion 400 Extreme Performance CPU - Thermal Compound Optimized for Thermal Dissipation [+10]
  • CARE3: Professional Wiring for All WIRING Inside The System Chassis - Minimize Cable Exposure, Maximize Airflow in Your System [+19]
  • CAS: Thermaltake Chaser MK-1 Full Tower Gaming Case W/ Side Panel Window [+107]
  • CASUPGRADE: 12in Cold Cathode Neon Light [+10] (Blue Color)
  • CD: LG 12X Internal Blu-ray Drive & DVDRW, 3D Playback Combo Drive (BLACK COLOR)
  • CD2: LG 12X Internal Blu-ray Drive & DVDRW, 3D Playback Combo Drive [+61] (BLACK COLOR)
  • COOLANT: High-Performance Coolant powered by Koolance [+19] (Blue Color [+10])
  • CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 (All Venom OC Certified)
  • CS_FAN: Maximum Enermax 120MM Case Cooling Fans for selected case (Maximum Silent Operation) [+29] (500-1,200 RPM T.B. Silence Black Color with Blue LED Twister Bearing 8-14 dBA [+0] 
  • FA_HDD: Vigor iSURF II Hard Disk Drive Cooling System [+21] (2 x Systems [+27])
  • FAN: CyberPower Xtreme Hydro Liquid Cooling Kit 240MM w/ XSPC Rasa 750 RS240, Dual Fan(CPU & GPU Liquid Cool Capable, Extreme Overclocking Performance + Extreme Silent at 18dBA)(All Venom OC Certified) [+63]
  • HDD: 2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)
  • HDD2: 2TB (2TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+112] (Single Drive)
  • IEEE_CARD: None
  • IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
  • KEYBOARD1: (Keyboard & Mouse Combo) Razer Cyclosa Gaming Keyboard & Abyssus Gaming Mouse [+30]
  • MEMORY: 32GB (4GBx8) DDR3/2133MHz Quad Channel Memory [+273] (Corsair Vengeance [+79])
  • MONITOR: 32" Widescreen 1920x1080 Sceptre X325BV-FHD LCD HDTV w/ Built-in Speakers, VGA & HDMI-Input [+248]
  • MONITOR2: None
  • MONITOR3: None
  • MOPAD1: Razer Destructor 2 Expert Hard Gaming Mouse Pad [+33]
  • MOTHERBOARD: (4-Way SLI/CrossFireX Support) GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ Ultra Durable 5, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, 4 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 & 1 PCI
  • NETWORK: Intel Pro Gigabit 10/100/1000 Network Card [+34]
  • NOISEREDUCE1: Sound Absorbing Foam on Side, Top And Bottom panels [+29]
  • NOISEREDUCE2: Power Supply Gasket [+5]
  • NOISEREDUCE3: Anti-Vibration Fan Mounts [+9]
  • OS: Microsoft® Windows 7 Professional [+31] (64-bit Edition)
  • OVERCLOCK: Pro OC (Performance Overclock 10% or more) [+19]
  • POWERSUPPLY: * 1,000 Watts - Cooler Master Silent Pro M 80 Plus Power Supply [+113]
  • PRINTER_CABLE1: PPA 6FT HDMI TO HDMI MALE BLACK CABLE WITH GOLD PLATED CONNECTORS [+12] (1 piece)
  • RUSH: RUSH!!! READY TO SHIP IN 5 BUSINESS DAYS [+49]
  • SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
  • SOUND: Creative Sound Blaster Z 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCIe Sound Card w/ SBX Pro Studio & Sound Core3D Processor [+79]
  • SPEAKERS: 600Watts PMPO Subwoofer Stereo Speakers [+15]
  • TEMP: NZXT Sentry LX Aluminum High Performance Fan Control, Clock, & Temperature Display [+69]
  • TUNING: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Performance Tuning Protection Plan by Intel [+29]
  • TVRC: None
  • UPS1: OPTI-UPS VS575CB 575VA/345W 6 Outlet Uninterruptible Power Supply [+57]
  • USB: None
  • USBFLASH: None
  • USBHD: None
  • USBX: NZXT Internal USB 6-PORT Expansion Module [+19]
  • VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card [+173] (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
  • VIDEO2: None
  • VIDEO3: None
  • WNC: 802.11b/g/n 300 Mbps Wireless Card + External 2.4G 5 Dbi Omni-Directional Wireless Antenna [+39]
  • _PRICE: (+3167)

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No! Water cooling is not required. Most definitely not for the overclock you quote above.

 

I have an i7 3770K, at 4.5GHz.

 

It's cooled with a Noctua NH-D14.

 

It runs very cool, and very quiet.

 

If you decide to go for a full blown water cooling kit, remember that water cooling requires maintenance. In addition, water leaks are a possibility, even with the all-in-one water coolers.

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If you decide to go for a full blown water cooling kit, remember that water cooling requires maintenance. In addition, water leaks are a possibility, even with the all-in-one water coolers.

 

Thanks for the info!

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Be warned though.

 

There are plenty of water cooling fanatics around who will try to convince you otherwise. Whether you need water cooling or not.

 

People like to justify their own choices, by claiming their choices are superior.

 

:smile:

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No! Water cooling is not required. Most definitely not for the overclock you quote above.

 

I have an i7 3770K, at 4.5GHz.

 

It's cooled with a Noctua NH-D14.

 

It runs very cool, and very quiet.

 

If you decide to go for a full blown water cooling kit, remember that water cooling requires maintenance. In addition, water leaks are a possibility, even with the all-in-one water coolers.

Sort of. Not all water cooling solutions require maintenance. There are a number of good closed loop water cooling units on the market.

 

For my Cyberpower rig, I went with the CoolIT ECO 240mm closed loop cooler. I had a NH-D14 on my last rig. A good air cooler, but it's a massive pain in the #%^--literally. Performance wise, see Tom's Hardware for a good comparison:

 

http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/water2.0-extreme-kraken-x40-hydro-h90-elc120,3434.html

 

Speaking of the massive NH-D14, Tom's Hardware said (referring to the Noctua beast): "Our recent experiences show that heavy coolers damaging motherboards during shipping is now a rule, rather than the exception. We hate to think about what could happen if a system were to fall on its side while supporting two pounds of metal from its PCB."

 

Good point.

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Had mine running now for 1 year solid with water cooling.

Home made cooling loop. Is it neccesary? it helps for sure, and is silent.

How much better, no idea, never tried this computer without water cooling,

Motherboard, memory, GPU & CPU all water cooled.

Running i990X at 4.6 steady, and temps don't go above 65 on the cpu with all 6 cores under full load.

GPU 45.

Leaks - none, I use good old fashioned jubilee clips, nothing sexy.

Maintenance, topped up the header tank twice in 12 months, about 400ml total.

Is it superior, no idea, i just know it works.

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Liquid cooling is not necessary at all. There are advantages and flaws compared with air cooling. It's your choice.

 

 

 

 

Be warned though.

 

There are plenty of water cooling fanatics around who will try to convince you otherwise. Whether you need water cooling or not.

 

People like to justify their own choices, by claiming their choices are superior.

 

:smile:

 

Your mean attempt to present people with water cooling solutions as fanatics, and water cooling as bad, risky, nerdy...whatever, maybe is sign of your try to justify your own choice, or you are just jealous? :smile: 

 

Please do not try to transfer your fears to other members anymore, if you are unconformable with water cooling stay away from it and do not write such a things at forums anymore. :smile:

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remember that water cooling requires maintenance

 

What kind of maintenance ?

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Other than that, you might want to reduce the wattage of your psu. You could save money by going with a 750W model.

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What kind of maintenance ?

Think about it like the oil in your car. It needs to be monitored for leaks and fluid levels. Coolant must be changed periodically because, as this is an open system, contaminants (like algae) can find a way in and clog the loop.

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Think about it like the oil in your car. It needs to be monitored for leaks and fluid levels. Coolant must be changed periodically because, as this is an open system, contaminants (like algae) can find a way in and clog the loop.

No, many simple liquid cooling systems require no maintenance and are rather inexpensive.

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No, many simple liquid cooling systems require no maintenance and are rather inexpensive.

Yes, I realize that. Except that the post he was quoting was referring to open-loop, not closed-loop, water cooling setups.

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I use the Corsair H70 closed loop. Been running very well for over a year, and temps are great. Also pretty quiet. 

 

Is it better than air cooling? IMO I had better results, but as alot of products and methods say.... Your mileage will vary. 

Is it necessary? Yes as relative as air cooling is. FSX runs CPU hot, so efficient cooling is paramount be it an outstanding air cooler or water cooling. 

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So for the system in the link below I don't need to worry about maintenance since its closed loop and prefillt.

http://www.dustinhome.se/product/5010658124/corsair-h60-hydro-cpu-cooler-s-1050-1155-2011-am3/

Correct. To put it into fighter pilot speak, these are fire and forget units. Of course, like any complex part, things can fail. But that's way different than the burden of routine maintenance.

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Correct. To put it into fighter pilot speak, these are fire and forget units. Of course, like any complex part, things can fail. But that's way different than the burden of routine maintenance.

 

That leads me to the question which is important

Is a liquid cooling system like this better than any air cooling solution ? Or are there some advantages with air coolers over water cooling ?

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That leads me to the question which is important

Is a liquid cooling system like this better than any air cooling solution ? Or are there some advantages with air coolers over water cooling ?

Ahhh! The ever popular performance comparison. Well take a look at the Tom's Hardware review linked below. In recent past, closed loop coolers were only on par with the best air coolers on the market (i.e., it was hard to justify the added cost of a water cooling solution). Now there are closed loop systems on the market that get closer to the performance of open loop setups without the maintenance hassle. As the author noted in the review, noise can be an issue though. The big advantage to the closed loop coolers, in my opinion, is their size. The top of the line NH-D14 air cooler is enormous. It's like hanging a dumbell on your CPU with a crow bar.

 

Bottomline, though the performance gain may be slight, closed loop setups are efficient, high performance and hassle free alternatives.

 

http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/water2.0-extreme-kraken-x40-hydro-h90-elc120,3434.html

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The top of the line NH-D14 air cooler is enormous. It's like hanging a dumbell on your CPU with a crow bar.

 

Exactly why I went to water cooling. To get great air cooling, the best ones were huge and heavy. The water cooling setups these days are very compact in comparison. Allows more air flow from the other fans around the case. 

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Bottomline, though the performance gain may be slight, closed loop setups are efficient, high performance and hassle free alternatives.

 

 

100% correct, can't agree more. I have had my H100 now for just about a year, have my i7 3770k (delidided) running at 4.8 with no problems, no hassles, and great temps (sub 90 during synthetic stress testing, sub 55 in FSX). 

 

IMO the H100/similar closed-loop coolers are the sweet spot for performance, lack of hassle, and weight/size. 

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My system is all air cooled...sits idle at 31c and upper 40's in FSX under load...some games bring it up into the mid 50's and I'm overclocked at 4.3Ghtz, so NO, water cooling is not needed, BUT...keep this in mind.

 

The 2 most importnt aspects of air cooling is the that all the wiring inside your case is neatly tucked away so it doesnt interfere with the airflow, and the other aspect of concern is your computer room's ambient temps. If you keep the room nice and cool in the summer months then great, but if you don't use any air conditioning and you want to overclock...well then water cooling may be a better choice.

 

Dont get a small case...get a nice LARGE full tower...the air flow will be better and you'll have more room to work with hands inside...easier to learn how to build your own system for next time :-)

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Watercooling:

Pro: silent, easily cool, less dust, practically maintenance free

Contra: expensive to obtain and maintain, provides only the "upper edge" above the good air cooling

 

Necessary? It all depends on you and your requirements

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I don't know if ambient temp has been mentioned here yet. During the winter I tried an experiment by placing my Water cooled PC on the roof of my garage and ran the cables in the bathroom window and networked everything to my basement. The tempreture outside was minus 10 to 14 degrees. It worked great. Overclocked to 4.8ghz and the temps were all very good. I plan to make a perminent new home for my next system in my dry but uninsulated attached garage (same temp as outside) and run all of the necessary cables through the wall to my basement. I get up to 4 or even 5 months of sub-zero nights here in the great white north. Sometimes below minus 20! And winter is FS season. expecting OC well over 5ghz. I doubt if water or air make much of a difference in very low ambient temps. If your climate and your home allows I would strongly recommend this.

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Of course, like any complex part, things can fail.

 

I was reading a post from a sad soul whose H110 developed a leak exposing much of his very pricey components.   Made me start looking at the Noctua!

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Sort of. Not all water cooling solutions require maintenance. There are a number of good closed loop water cooling units on the market.

 

 

 

Speaking of the massive NH-D14, Tom's Hardware said (referring to the Noctua beast): "Our recent experiences show that heavy coolers damaging motherboards during shipping is now a rule, rather than the exception. We hate to think about what could happen if a system were to fall on its side while supporting two pounds of metal from its PCB."

 

Good point.

I was referring to a full blown water cooling kit. I also mentioned all-in-one water coolers as an option. Both are capable of leaking.

 

As for the weight of the Noctua NH-D14... I've not come across ONE confirmed example, of the Noctua damaging motherboards. Noctua aren't stupid, they did a great job of designing the SecuFirm 2 mounting system.

 

The weight of the D14 should NOT be a concern to anyone. Whether it fits in your case should be. I have owned a plethora of big heavy coolers, fitted to many builds. Not once have I ever had an issue with motherboard damage.

 

When I first ordered my D14, I was all set to fabricate an extra support bracket. However, as soon as I mounted the cooler I realised immediately that the mounting system was excellent, supplying all the support required.

 

The Tom's hardware quote you supply above refers to "heavy coolers" NOT specifically the NH-D14. I don't doubt that there are some coolers out there that don't have the quality support provided by SecuFirm 2.

 

It also refers to "SHIPPING", in other words, the supplier of said PC hasn't packed the PC in a suitable manner. The manufacturer of said PC is obliged to make sure their product is properly packed for shipping.

 

However, I personally would only recommend an ND-D14as an after market cooler, rather than fitted to a pre built PC.

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Liquid cooling is not necessary at all. There are advantages and flaws compared with air cooling. It's your choice.

 

 

 

Your mean attempt to present people with water cooling solutions as fanatics, and water cooling as bad, risky, nerdy...whatever, maybe is sign of your try to justify your own choice, or you are just jealous? :smile:

 

Please do not try to transfer your fears to other members anymore, if you are unconformable with water cooling stay away from it and do not write such a things at forums anymore. :smile:

 

Your mean attempt to present people with water cooling solutions as fanatics, and water cooling as bad, risky, nerdy

 

Where did I say any of that? You are putting words into my mouth. Words and intentions that were never present.

 

I did NOT say water cooling was "bad". I have considered it myself.

I did not say ALL water cooling enthusiast are fanatics.

Water cooling DOES pose leakage risks.

I did not say water cooling fans are nerds.

I am NOT justifying my own choices, D14 super large coolers are NOT for everyone.

 

You should refrain from putting words into peoples mouths. Words and intentions that were never present.

 

And yes, I have come across water cooling enthusiast that attempt to persuade others to adopt water cooling, whether it's the right choice for that individual or not. I did NOT say this was the norm.

 

Please do not try to transfer your fears to other members anymore, if you are unconformable with water cooling stay away from it and do not write such a things at forums anymore.

 

I have no fears of water cooling. However, leaks are a possibility as we all know. Hence, why the OP should be aware of that.

 

Hope that's clearer for you.

 

P.S. The way you misinterpreted my post, is a clear example of how, those that make choices, will often try to defend their choices, to the extent that they become oversensitive, and unnecessarily defencive.

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