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Flight 3rd party addon update thread.

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and how much MS would want to sell the code if dont mind me asking ?

 

I have no idea and would not know who to talk to for a quote. Ms is a massive company and even getting a number would take months and involve many lawyers.

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I can see how offering the whole world in one shot to a level that would keep simmers happy is unfeasibly expensive, but the Flight model of releasing sceneries bit by bit seemed a sensible solution. And as Hi-Flyer says, there've been a few combat sims recently that have done a good job with small teams with not much money although covering small maps.

 

As for buying the Flight code, I think getting the money together might not be that hard with some robust project management. Kickstarter with extra backing from the big 3rd party devs to make an uber-sim; this site alone has over 200,000 subscribers and I'm sure at least half of them could be persuaded to part with $100 each if the big names were on board to make the sim we all want. That's $10,000,000 right there.

 

I'm also sure this would NEVER happen:(

I also thought that releasing the world bit by bit (at higher levels of detail) was a reasonable response to the cold hard financial realities. It's pretty sad it never got a real chance, but maybe with these potential new tools something good can begin to build.

 

Sometimes slow and steady wins the race.......

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Kevin, Stonelance. As you may have heard MS has announced that there will be no new AOTD. This is sad and the end of all development from MS for the sim. As you can imagine the morale in the MSFlight community is a rather bit low. You two folks are the best and probably the last hope we have for this sim. I think the morale of the MSFlight community could use a morale boost now the most since the cancelation a year ago. Please post something on your latest efforts. We need it. Even if it's very little. We need to hear something positive.

 

Thank you

 

Moe

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Kevin, Stonelance. As you may have heard MS has announced that there will be no new AOTD. This is sad and the end of all development from MS for the sim. As you can imagine the morale in the MSFlight community is a rather bit low. You two folks are the best and probably the last hope we have for this sim. I think the morale of the MSFlight community could use a morale boost now the most since the cancelation a year ago. Please post something on your latest efforts. We need it. Even if it's very little. We need to hear something positive.

 

Thank you

 

Moe

 

Apart from the odd glass of wine too many, my morals are fine. My morale on the other hand...

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Spelling was never a strong point of mine. Sorry

 

Moe


Spelling error. Sorry

 

I think they get my point.

 

Moe

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I have no idea and would not know who to talk to for a quote. Ms is a massive company and even getting a number would take months and involve many lawyers.

 

If the "Community" bought it who would own, control it and develop it - and who would pay for that?

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Wow. Wonder how hard it was to set up the Aerocaches. I would have thunk it was designed to be fairly simple.

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Would it be possible to create third party aerocaches?

 

The daily aerocaches are hosted on a server and transmitted over the network, so I don't think they are easily modifiable.  It appears as though it might be possible to add permanent aerocaches since there are some built-in ones in a SimProp file that ships with Flight.  I just don't know if when you collect them it will properly record the stats of them, or even count it as collected.  I would have to do some testing to see.

 

 

 

Wow. Wonder how hard it was to set up the Aerocaches. I would have thunk it was designed to be fairly simple.

Yeah... the previous community managers were obviously able to update them without the original team, and I know several people who worked on Flight would probably be willing to help them out if asked.  The issue seems more likely to me to be that they don't have as many people to help out behind the scenes.  Honestly I'm surprised they kept doing them as long as they did.   It has been over a year since Flight was cancelled, and they supported it much longer than it was officially live for.

 

 

 

Please post something on your latest efforts. We need it. Even if it's very little. We need to hear something positive.

I'm still working on stuff, but haven't made much progress over the last month or two because I have been working 60+ hours a week and haven't has much spare time.  I was able to update the installer to fix some issues (and is needed for the bigger changes coming once the aircraft conversion is working).  I also improved the animation script conversion such that almost every script in the three aircraft I have tried converting so far have worked.  I've also been working to make the conversion a little more robust and handle different scenarios, such as twin engines, older FSX planes, and even some work to convert jets into prop aircraft.

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Here are some shots of what I have done over the past 3-4 months or so:

 

This shows a sim debugger which has live updates of the parameters of the sim while Flight is running.  It is pretty rough and has some bugs, but it helpful for me when I need to see what went wrong in my conversion code.

SimDebugger01-1024x605.jpg

 

Quick test of using the tools on the Cessna from FSX.  The plane is not flyable right now:

AircraftConversion_0_02-1024x793.jpg

 

Quick test of using the tools to convert a jet from FSX.  The jet turbines are converted into prop and piston engines, so they aren't going to be very accurate, but at least I know the model can be converted.  There are issues with the twin engine and jet conversion.  Right now at full throttle it just slowly spins in circles.

AircraftConversion_0_01-1024x793.jpg

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We appreciate anything you can do stonelance, thanks again . We are a very patient bunch.

 

Steve

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We appreciate anything you can do stonelance, thanks again

Positively and thank you very much - it looks like a great start and I'm sure it was a lot of work and time

 

We are a very patient bunch.

Well, I'm trying. Sitting on my hands and dying to try them out even if they don't work right.  lol

I will wait as long as it takes but its not easy especially since it may become obsolete if they remove the online installer - sooner or later we all upgrade our pc's and then what? I have no faith they (ms) will give us a redistributable installer for the base program making all our dlc content and 3pd's useless :(

 

I Hope I'm wrong here

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If the "Community" bought it who would own, control it and develop it - and who would pay for that?

 

That's now how Kickstarter works.  Kickstarter is 100% a donation, with the developer making promises that goals will be met at specific levels of donation.  Like if you donate $30, you get a free copy of the game.  Your only entitled to a copy of the game, not co-ownership.  For something like Kickstarter to work, it would need to be led by someone the community knows and trust's, and someone who can lead a team.  That someone is NOT me.  I have no leadership experience, and im not known enough in the community for people to trust with that sort of money. 

 

If you buy the code, it would still need to take a team to make a sim out of it!!!  Even with full code and tools, it would still take a year or more of development to build a full sim.  That team would need to be a good size, say ~20 people, getting around $60,000-$100,000 if not more.  That's 2 million in just labor.  Then add equipment, and office space for another million.  Then you need license fees (Jepp data can easly cost $250,000 for the world) and buying all the data you need (sat and topo maps) is another million. 

 

You can see that even buying the code, it would still take significant time, money, and resources to put together a sim.  This is NOT a task to be taken lightly.

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Stonelance, would it be possible to achieve vertical flight (for helicopters) by adjusting various flight model values for lots of lift upon increasing the "throttle"? It would definitely not be the most realistic, but it would at least allow for some form of helicopter to be in the game without making it fly completely like an airplane.

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Hmm, actually there is a thrust angle in the prop settings that (supposedly) controls the direction.  I'm sure you would run into bugs and stuff by pointing it straight down, but it would be fun to try.  The sim code was actually written to be extensible with additional dlls, but it was never tested, and I'm not sure if it is possible to use without the SDK libraries.  Plus, I think GFWL checks the dlls that are loaded to make sure they are MS published, so that is another hurtle.

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You can see that even buying the code, it would still take significant time, money, and resources to put together a sim. This is NOT a task to be taken lightly.

That was my point. It's a non-starter - just look how long it took the FlightGear community to develop that to its current state - which is still behind FSX.

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Thanks for the update guys. If at any point $ would be a limiting factor in the development, please tell us. I am sure we could find some cash if you need it. I for one would offer some up. Nice to see that 172 on the runway. You really put a smile on my face with that shot. Is the intention to convert each aircraft one at a time or is the plan to use a utility that we can convert out choice of FSX aircraft? Not fussy, just curious.

 

Thanks again guys

Moe

 

subliminal hint for Cessna 172

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Here are some shots of what I have done over the past 3-4 months or so:

 

This shows a sim debugger which has live updates of the parameters of the sim while Flight is running.  It is pretty rough and has some bugs, but it helpful for me when I need to see what went wrong in my conversion code.

 

 

Quick test of using the tools on the Cessna from FSX.  The plane is not flyable right now:

 

 

Quick test of using the tools to convert a jet from FSX.  The jet turbines are converted into prop and piston engines, so they aren't going to be very accurate, but at least I know the model can be converted.  There are issues with the twin engine and jet conversion.  Right now at full throttle it just slowly spins in circles.

 

When that jet gets off the ground we should make an inaugural group flight from Anchorage to Honolulu.  B)

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  stonelance thanks for the update . the 172 would be a nice one to have around ...... keep it up ...

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...You can see that even buying the code, it would still take significant time, money, and resources to put together a sim. This is NOT a task to be taken lightly.

 

I remember a loooooong time ago when I suggested that we buy the rights to Flight somehow on the Steam Flight blog... boy... did I not have all of the information. :blink:   LOL.

 

Thank you guys from the deepest part of the heart for ALL of your hard work.  It is much appreciated!

 

-fryer

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You can see that even buying the code, it would still take significant time, money, and resources to put together a sim.  This is NOT a task to be taken lightly.

 

Let me get this strait... your saying that a bake sale wont cut it?  Hmmm... might have to include "bikini and heels car wash" as well then.

 

 

What a convoluted mess FLIGHT was developed in. Looks like the lesson here is to work out license agreements first. Lawyers yes, but also salesmen to point out

to AC and NAV people the inherent advertising of their products when included in the sim. Every simmer is a potential RW customer after all.

 

Ah well. Just passing through. Good luck with the project.

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every time i play MS Flight I feel the need to express how much i like it, and how sorry I am it's been killed off so early in its life. Lucky you I don't come here writing about this as often as I feel to.

Again I came to see if there's any progress in the add-on department, gaze at those screenshots with add-on planes that may or may not ever come to us, and I was thinking it would be great even to just have some more planes parked in the airports. Would that be possible and\or easier to do? As far as I know so far there are just 3 UH60 parked at Hilo, perhaps a couple of rusty wrecks in 2 other places. Are there any other stationary planes parked anywhere in the game?

I'm really looking forward to any piece of news about any development going on for Flight.

 

Just one last thing I wanted to point out that might have caused part of the failure of Flight, the default free planes allow no instrument navigation. When I got the 3 deluxe DLC planes I was very glad to find that you could set navigation and instrumental landing instruments, they make the game so much more enjoyable. Landing with low visibility, strong crosswinds, perhaps at night, and still making it safely to the runway, it's just great.

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I have inquired about this before but don't recall if anyone camback with any throughts. Would it be possible to add a small pop up window with your basic 6 or 8 flight instruments like some of the older sims? That would help so much with the basic aircraft. I would love to see that and would gladly pay for something like that.

 

Steve

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When I started with FSX back in 05 or was that 06 I had a small monitor. I then got a second monitor and placed the flight instruments like you mentioned Steve onto the smaller monitor so I could see them clearly. I think that not only such a six pac could benefit us like it did for me back then, but you could use that for home cockpit builds and for the cockpitless warbirds that so very much need it.

 

So Kevin, Stonelance. How bout it? Can it be done?

 

Moe

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