The problem I have, DJ, is that all 10% came in one big chunk and apart from SAK, all 10% were Orbx' latest releases.. 

 

Not really. Their latest NA airport offerings are great. EGHI for the EU region is great. Queenstown, Canberra cityscape, etc. All are more recent then the EU regions.

 

They are letting sim720 finish their contract and then it appears they are parting ways. 

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The problem I have, DJ, is that all 10% came in one big chunk and apart from SAK, all 10% were Orbx' latest releases..

 

That, as I pointed out waaay back at the beginning of this thread, is simply not true and was something I thought you'd acknowledged when you changed your initial comments to reflect that your real issue was with many of the UK Sim720 releases (which I don't have and can't comment on).  Releases elsewhere amount to more than just SAK (which is in my opinion the best NA region yet) and include Bozeman, Juneau, Bonners Ferry, freeware ... - these NA releases remain absolutely top shelf (not perfect, of course, but up to or exceeding previous quality) based on my purchases and people seem happy with the recent releases from down south (NZQN, Canberra, Broome) as well.

 

Again, I think any generic "Orbx quality has dropped" argument is deeply flawed, and I thought your discussion had (quite fairly) narrowed to Sim720 and the hows and whys of that segment of Orbx products and relationships.

 

Scott

Not really. Their latest NA airport offerings are great. EGHI for the EU region is great. Queenstown, Canberra cityscape, etc. All are more recent then the EU regions.

 

They are letting sim720 finish their contract and then it appears they are parting ways. 

 

Fair point, but I was addressing the FTX regions. And this entire thread is basically discussing the SIM720 FTX EU packs, released under the Orbx name. 

That, as I pointed out waaay back at the beginning of this thread, is simply not true and was something I thought you'd acknowledged when you changed your initial comments to reflect that your real issue was with many of the UK Sim720 releases (which I don't have and can't comment on).  Releases elsewhere amount to more than just SAK (which is in my opinion the best NA region yet) and include Bozeman, Juneau, Bonners Ferry, freeware ... - these NA releases remain absolutely top shelf (not perfect, of course, but up to or exceeding previous quality) based on my purchases and people seem happy with the recent releases from down south (NZQN, Canberra, Broome) as well.

 

Again, I think any generic "Orbx quality has dropped" argument is deeply flawed, and I thought your discussion had (quite fairly) narrowed to Sim720 and the hows and whys of that segment of Orbx products and relationships.

 

Scott

 

Yes, you're right, Scott. As above.

 

The airports that Sim720 have recently released on their own show this lack of quality and skill with agonising clarity.

 

You have to be kidding me? The recently released Sim720 airports are really nice. They may not have ButterflyFlow or virtual copies of every single blade of grass on the airfields, but what they do have looks and feels very good indeed.

 

 

You have to be kidding me? The recently released Sim720 airports are really nice.

 

Yeah, I wondered about that too, as I hadn't heard much on the solo release yet.  And isn't there just one so far?

 

Scott

I have been reading this thread with some amusement.

 

Andreas Aarens

 

So glad we could entertain you.

 

Apart from Greg Jones, this team had zero FS development experience so Orbx spent quite some time and investment into training them and skills transfer, and this culminated in the release of FTX EU England late in 2012.

 

Rather than hiring skilled developers, John Venema chose the cheaper route, as skilled developers would have been much more expensive.

 

FS Developers are not an infinite resource. Are you sure that training a new team is cheaper? You have insight into the contents of Orbx contracts?

 

the FS community's disappointment in FTX England is proof of that

 

 

Did we take a vote?

 

 It seems clear that Orbx's focus has been too oriented towards short-term revenue.

 

 

Canberra City Scape took 3 years and Bonners Ferry 2 years. How is that oriented towards short-term revenue?

 

The airports that Sim720 have recently released on their own show this lack of quality and skill with agonising clarity.

 

 

Really? Take another good look here: http://flight.sim720.co.uk/products_caernarfon.php

Do you think it's fair to assume that, given the fact that Orbx don't seem to be renewing SIM720's contract, there will be no further updates to the U.K scenery, so that's as good as it's ever going to be?

 

Ian.

 

 

Canberra City Scape took 3 years and Bonners Ferry 2 years. How is that oriented towards short-term revenue?

 

Then that's 3 years to make a product that will appeal to.....hmmm.....maybe someone living in Canberra? Instead of creating airports, development money and time is spent on an area that has a minimal market appeal, just crazy for such a long development cycle. In my opinion it would have been a better decision to create a fully seasonal Queenstown airport scenery instead.

 

Andreas Aarens

 

 

Then that's 3 years to make a product that will appeal to.....hmmm.....maybe someone living in Canberra? Instead of creating airports, development money and time is spent on an area that has a minimal market appeal, just crazy for such a long development cycle. In my opinion it would have been a better decision to create a fully seasonal Queenstown airport scenery instead.

 

Don't forget that most, if not all, Orbx addons are made by individuals or a few individuals and Orbx isn't much more then a publisher. Quite often the only thing the Orbx addons have in common is the object library.

I think Canberra was made by someone who simply wanted to make it: he certainly hasn't been working on it for 3 years while being on Orbx's payroll...! It was a labor of love and it was released by Orbx. That's it. It has nothing to do with short term or long term whatever.

 

A lot of people seem to think Orbx is located in an office somewhere in Australia and every addon is being developed in the house. That's not the case.

Then that's 3 years to make a product that will appeal to.....hmmm.....maybe someone living in Canberra? Instead of creating airports, development money and time is spent on an area that has a minimal market appeal, just crazy for such a long development cycle. In my opinion it would have been a better decision to create a fully seasonal Queenstown airport scenery instead.

 

Andreas Aarens

Well Andreas, if and maybe Canberra City Scape would appeal to a small market, how does that compare to your claim of Orbx and focus on short-term revenue??

 

By the way, I just purchased it today and I live 10.000 miles from Canberra?

 

Do you think it's fair to assume that, given the fact that Orbx don't seem to be renewing SIM720's contract, there will be no further updates to the U.K scenery, so that's as good as it's ever going to be?

 

Ian.

No...

Hello all,

Finally a sensible discussion which has not degenerated into another Orbx bashing exercise or JV hanging

Let me just make a few very succinct responses and leave it at that.

- We made a decision to end the Sim720 contract a long time ago, but we are bound by a six-region contract which we will honour.

- I learnt a LOT from the whole Sim720 experience and am a lot wiser. There is a whole lot more to the whole Sim720 saga than anyone needs to know (or will ever know) 

- We parted company with Sim720 because of key differences in our approaches to development and quality. No need to say more than that. As a young team they will get better with time. Their new MD is a patient man and has a long term vision for the team. He and I are still on somewhat amicable speaking terms despite our differences.

- Orbx is refocusing back to its core team and roots. That is, expect to see our product output slow down since we're using only long-established trusted core developers who truly care about what they craft. This was evidenced in SAK and FTX Global and the recent airport releases by our core developers. We are getting back to basics and have a very clear two-fold product strategy with the FTX Global series and our traditional regions/airports series.

- We will continue to do selected UK airports but mostly Q400+ sized now, see the latest EGHI from 29Palms as an example. Lars and Martin are truly masters of their craft and I am proud to publish their work and put the Orbx brand on it. We have some smaller airports coming too, also more up north. If and when we do a small grass strip we sell it for about £10+ like we did with Russ's latest EGML.

- We are still passionate about making stuff. We want to change the sim experience for everyone. That focus has never been lost, but sometimes small companies like Orbx suffer growing pains and make the wrong decisions. Hopefully I have learnt from it and can recover some lost faith from our customers. I believe when the FTX Global series of products are finished by end 2015 we will offer three simple turn-key installers that will completely revamp FSX, P3Dv1 and P3Dv2. We are committed to P3D and I was in Florida only a few weeks ago spending some time with the LM team; it's a very exciting new platform which we are pumped up about. The future looks very bright indeed.

- Finally, please don't think a topic like this would get shut down on our forum. Mark took the *correct* approach. He did not flame, bash, was polite and not arrogant. That often goes a long way to getting a developer on side. Present an argument and don't soapbox and most developers will let topics like these have a long life. I am sure it would at our own forums too.

I won't post here again; my staff and I choose not to post on this forum because our support forums are there for interaction with us, not here. Tom is aware of our stance on that as well. However, feel free to interact with us over at the Orbx forums where topics started in the manner Mark did will definitely not be moderated to closure. You guys now know how to discuss this stuff, I hope this is a turning point for this place.

Safe skies to all

Thanks for contributing over here and providing some background to this discussion.

Thanks John! You're a gentleman after all

John,

      thanks you very much for taking the time to respond, it's very much appreciated. Just to make one thing clear, I for one have no desire to start "Orbx Bashing", as I believe there can be no doubt that the company have produced some of the finest products available for flight sim, and I think that they have "pushed the boundaries" and in so doing have probably extended the life of FSX itself.

I do hope that at some stage it may be possible to address the shortfalls in the U.K scenery, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

Regards,

        Ian.