Since we're talking Apache and Aztec, why not pull Fred Choate's PA-23 out of the hangar for a spin. As I mentioned earlier, she flies smooth and predictable. FS9, a functional 2D Panel and basic VC.

All in all, it does the job.

 

Alan 

 

 

but I found the Aztec to feel more "solid" in handling somewhat - especially when flying in IMC down to minimums in turbulence...just the trim wheels was something I was never able to get over.....I mean on the ROOF?! Seriously Piper? the roof?

Hey, it's the ceiling or the overhead but never the roof.  B) No matter what it's called, it is no place for a trim wheel.  One of the old WWII spotter planes had a big crank up there also.  Probably the same designer.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

That must have been one of the very early 4 place blunt nose/straight tail models. The later 6-place version had a pointy nose and swept tail. Looked fine to me.Ray

I think it was a B-model. Sure was a handful getting it down at Apopka which had a runway not much wider than the space between the main gear.

 

 

Since we're talking Apache and Aztec, why not pull Fred Choate's PA-23 out of the hangar for a spin. As I mentioned earlier, she flies smooth and predictable. FS9, a functional 2D Panel and basic VC.

All in all, it does the job.

 

Yes, I agree it is a smooth and predictable flyer (like it's real world counterpart) and I did fly this in FS9 for a few years but didn't include it in a re-installation of FS9 that I carried out a couple of years ago. Perhaps we are just being spoiled by the quality of both payware and many freeware aircraft addons available now of but, at the time of re-installation, I omitted it as I felt that the external model lacked detail and I didn't much like the VC (from which I prefer to fly), although I accept that the 2D panel was functional.

 

However, I do appreciate all the effort that freeware developers put into their work and their generosity to us all in providing these otherwise impossible to find aircraft, so, in the spirit of doing a fair assessment, I have now added this to FSX (hope it works there!) and am about to take Alan's advice and take it for a spin!

 

It is encouraging, by the way, to see that there seems to be a reasonable degree of interest in the Aztec (albeit perhaps mainly amongst those of us of a certain age!) and hopefully that might tempt a developer to take on this once extremely popular aircraft with over 6000 produced?

 

Bill

Hey, it's the ceiling or the overhead but never the roof. B) No matter what it's called, it is no place for a trim wheel. One of the old WWII spotter planes had a big crank up there also. Probably the same designer.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

Unfortunately I had a staunch British instructor who insisted I refer to it as "Roof Panel" lol hence my habit lol....one wrong word and I got whacked on my head (like he referred to throttle detents/gates as "balks").

 

Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same designer at all...maybe he/she retired to Vero Beach after the war.

 

There's a nice early aztec as well (straight tail-blunt nose-square bar yoke) over on either flightsim or simviation too (I forgot where I downloaded it first).

There are a few freeware Aztecs for FS2004 (That can be ported over to FSX) that I currently know of  (over at simviation).

 

In the payware arena there are a couple for X-plane 9/10 that I can vouch for regarding accuracy of handling - not the best VC-wise (read: no 3D instruments and only a few knobs pop out - not a deal breaker for me though), but external model and FDM are spot on.

 

@ttocs true..side by side the C310 looked like an Albatross while the Aztec looked like an overweight chicken...but I found the Aztec to feel more "solid" in handling somewhat - especially when flying in IMC down to minimums in turbulence...just the trim wheels was something I was never able to get over.....I mean on the ROOF?! Seriously Piper? the roof?

 

I'd love to see one of the more prominent devs make an Aztec for FS2004 and/or X (I use both so it doesn't matter to me which one) - Just that my personal wish would be one with the regular air driven gauges - no garmin glass...maybe a simple kln90 gps at most..I feel that anything more will kill the spirit of it.

 

If memory serves, Piper and other manufacturers like Howard (DGA-15P) and Stinson (SR-10, 108 Series) also used ceiling mounted Trim cranks. The best ones are on the DHC-2; the 3 little wheels under the Throttle Quadrant!

 

Alan 

 

 

However, I do appreciate all the effort that freeware developers put into their work and their generosity to us all in providing these otherwise impossible to find aircraft, so, in the spirit of doing a fair assessment, I have now added this to FSX (hope it works there!) and am about to take Alan's advice and take it for a spin!

 

Installed that into FSX and spent a while flying it last night for old time's sake!

 

The external model although fiarly accurate in terms of shape (albeit with a few slight areas of angulation in the structure where there are none in real life) is unfortunately lacking in detail and the overall appearance in spot view is very bland. Unfortunately most of the engine instruments seem incompatible with FSX (I received multiple error messages relating to FS98 gauges when loading this aircraft) so the right side of the panel is just blank!.With regard to the panel itself, the 2D one is OK (and functional even without engine instruments!) but I prefer to use the VC and this is poor here.

 

On the positive side however, the flying characteristics and flight dynamics are very good and pretty close, I would say, to the real thing - this was a solid, stable aircraft to fly in the real world with a fairly good short field performance and I think this is well reflected in this simulation. The sounds, though aliased to the default Baron which had different engines, seem to be a reasonable representation although perhaps not as deep, but it is so long since I have heard an Aztec that I cannot be sure about this! Will keep it in my hanger for a while and perhaps replace the panel with that of another Piper twin such as the Carenado Seneca and avoid flying in spot view! But I am still hoping for a good payware version!

Bill

To date the best Aztecs are available for X-Plane 9/10 (fdm/systemswise/visual model-wise and external model).

 

None have 2d cockpits though (I find x-plane's vc system easier to navigate at any rate)

I also would like to see a high quality Piper Aztec, but the older one with the rounded nose. Maybe Carenado or MilViz could be the right developer?

 

Here are some pix from a sales broschure from the sixties. My dad used to fly one of these before he swaped to a PA31-310 Navajo.

 

http://wm58.inbox.com/thumbs/e_21afe8_47bd56_tn.jpg.thumb

 

http://wm58.inbox.com/thumbs/f_21afe7_86c7426a_tn.jpg.thumb

 

http://wm58.inbox.com/thumbs/10_21afe6_47c426c_tn.jpg.thumb

 

 

Hey, it's the ceiling or the overhead but never the roof.  B) No matter what it's called, it is no place for a trim wheel.  One of the old WWII spotter planes had a big crank up there also.  Probably the same designer.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

The Cherokees trim wheel is up top as well from what I understand is all pipers of that era shared a very similar cockpit to allow pilots to quickly progress to the next model. The Bellanca I fly also has the trim wheel up top I can't say it being there has ever been an issue in fact I prefer it to the beech and Cessna panel mounted trims. Most of the time I only use the Vikings trim crank is when the electric trim doesn't move fast enough since I keep my finals very short usually less than a 1/2 mile

 

 

The Cherokees trim wheel is up top as well from what I understand is all pipers of that era shared a very similar cockpit to allow pilots to quickly progress to the next model.

 

The key phrase being "from that era", as later Cherokees moved to a more standard trim wheel between the seats.

 

Scott

Apologies for resussitating an old post, but it seems Alabeo are about to make our wish come true!

 

Bill

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and then there's the whole matter of perspective.  I have no Aztec time, so my judgements are superficial - and I've always found even the later models to be a face only a mother would love.  A flying friend with considerable Apache time never could understand my prejudices.

 

 

 

 

Put them side by side on the ramp and no one would ever mistake the bulbous Aztec for the sleek Cessna 310R.  But y'see, there go my prejudices again.

 

But seriously, I think it'd be a wonderful plane for someone like Carenado to do.

 

Scott

Alabeo is developing an Aztec.

 

http://www.alabeo.com/index.php

Also take a look at the Aeroplane Heaven website, they too have one in the works! (although it looks like an older model, with the rounded wingtips).

 

Gerald

Alabeo is developing an Aztec.

 

http://www.alabeo.com/index.php

 

Yes and it looks like it might be released fairly soon!

 

Also take a look at the Aeroplane Heaven website, they too have one in the works! (although it looks like an older model, with the rounded wingtips).

 

Gerald

 

Good to have two models to chose from but not sure whether to go for the newer model or the older model. I have an attachment to the older model as it was the first twin I flew in the RW but it is the uglier of the two - beauty really is in the eye of the beholder!

 

Bill