I have several THOUSAND pounds stirling worth of addons.  ProATX is one of very few that I feel to be a complete waste of my money:-(

I'll chime in here my 2 cents worth. I was an early adopter and believed that this software was going somewhere.

After many months of use, I just found too many inconsistencies to use regularly. The issue for me was the way robotic ATC handled STARs and SIDs in Europe vs N. America or other places. I made videos to show differences, but it wasn't understood well by developer(s). Even a transition into a STAR was poorly handled and again its quite different in Europe. Being that as it may, its probably very difficult to program such a dynamic environment. It will be very difficult to achieve something that is very functional. Another example is a STAR that takes you way out 20+nm before turning back to intercept the ILS. Unrealistic and would only be used in a very heavy traffic scenario. Its normal to run in around 12 nm and intercept at 10 depending on charts of course. But how do you program that dynamically?. Something only a human can interpret. 

 

Its unfortunate though that a new update has take so long. Perhaps the frequent updates previously spoiled us all, but at the same time, they did give valuable feedback to the dev.

 

I hope it can still happen. After all they have my $75. But im sure they are under tremendous stress. Im somewhat dissatisfied but have held back in complaining in the forums to give such a monumental task to correct itself. 

I have several THOUSAND pounds stirling worth of addons.  ProATX is one of very few that I feel to be a complete waste of my money:-(

 

 

The majority of proatcx users are happy with the software and are happy to wait for the next update to be released when it is ready........ in my time in the forum as a member of support I have answered literally hundreds of questions giving support and resolving issues.

 

Some proatcx users have been complaining about the product and with a number of them there is not one thread where they have asked for help on a specific issue. I asked one user to let me know what issues they were having and he refused to tell me and promptly started complaining about the product.

 

There are many reasons why someone may have issues with a product ... I can go to the forum of any flightsim addon and see many examples daily of issues where people have the product working on their computer while it works on most others peoples machines. This will no doubt be due to any one of a number of reasons..... the hardware you have such as how much memory you have, are you on windows 8, are you on a network...... even what other addons you have running at the time.... or what antivirus you have running.

 

The point is yes it is expected that some people will have problems with something not working with proatcx....... but the solution is to ask support for help not to complain about the product.

I'll chime in here my 2 cents worth. I was an early adopter and believed that this software was going somewhere.

After many months of use, I just found too many inconsistencies to use regularly. The issue for me was the way robotic ATC handled STARs and SIDs in Europe vs N. America or other places. I made videos to show differences, but it wasn't understood well by developer(s). Even a transition into a STAR was poorly handled and again its quite different in Europe. Being that as it may, its probably very difficult to program such a dynamic environment. It will be very difficult to achieve something that is very functional. Another example is a STAR that takes you way out 20+nm before turning back to intercept the ILS. Unrealistic and would only be used in a very heavy traffic scenario. Its normal to run in around 12 nm and intercept at 10 depending on charts of course. But how do you program that dynamically?. Something only a human can interpret. 

 

Its unfortunate though that a new update has take so long. Perhaps the frequent updates previously spoiled us all, but at the same time, they did give valuable feedback to the dev.

 

I hope it can still happen. After all they have my $75. But im sure they are under tremendous stress. Im somewhat dissatisfied but have held back in complaining in the forums to give such a monumental task to correct itself. 

 

 

Hi hightowers

 

I think you had left the forum before I came back to the forum to help with support but i remember you well from the early days.

 

Yes it is true that the developer had spoiled us with the frequent updates before .... the difference now is that he is working on a fairly major update which is going to fix a lot of issues people have been having and is going to add more to the product. 

 

As a programmer myself I agree with what you said about it being diffacult to handle SIDs and STARS in a realistic way...... it is a very diffacult task to program something like this to be 100% realistic.

 

Until I started using proatcx I had no idea what a SID or STAR was and when I was approaching airports I was just trying to line up with the first runway I saw and trying to land without crashing......most of the time landing on the wrong runway.Since then  I have learned what SIDS and STARS were, how to read navigation maps and file realistic flight plans....and even make sure I land on the correct assigned runway.

 

After the update comes out if there are still any issues with the departures and approaches to airports I am happy to go though them with you in the forum and then discuss them with the developer.

 

Proatcx forum moderator

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess everybody has their own standards that they are willing to accept.

 

If you are willing to spend lots of money on poor quality software then I am happy for you.

 

Myself, like a lot of other people here, do not accept mediocre software and support.

 

Many months ago we were told the release was imminent, only the install script had to be written, a fairly simple task. That deadline has now passed, as have many others. Only one more bug to squash...

 

Personally I don't believe we will ever see any updates. If this was not the case it would not take very long to post a simple update/fix list, or new screen shots and everyone would be happy for a while.

 

So far all we have received are empty promises. 

 

I was an early adopter of the software. I picked up a number of bugs which I reported back to the developer. In my case it was a problem reading a certain publishers AIRAC data correctly. I kept being told that there was no problem and it was something wrong with my system. I'm a firmware programmer myself so when I can consistently replicate an error I know there is a problem. To cut a long story short it turns out my problem wasn't being checked. He eventually admitted that he didn't even have the AIRAC data which they proclaimed to support. Right then I knew I was being fed a load of nonsense and had serious concerns going forward.

 

The software has had potential, I just don't believe it will be attained with the current attitude. 

 

Anyway my copy has been relegated to the recycle bin. At least that worked.

 

 

I did add a post in the announcement section last month explaining that there was an issue that had been discovered and that the developer had to resolve the issue before he could release the update and that this would mean the expected deadline alpha117 has suggested in the announcement section would not be met .

 

I am the one who mentioned that the release of the update was immenent ....because at that stage it was.

 

However with testing some complex issues had been discovered which has delayed the release and this has been mentioned many times in the forum. I am confident that no one wants an update to be released until it is ready to be released.

 

I have no idea what the issue was with the AIRAC but my opinion is that the issue you had should have been handled in the forum so that the support guys could help you with the issue and if it could not be resolved by them then the problem escalated by support to the developer.

 

Proatcx forum moderator

I have been a regular customer from the very beginnig and got quite frustrated when the support and information policy of the developers got a serious change somewhen in spring last year. I also think that rjord tends to lock critical posts.But I still have some hope for pro atc, although I sadly don't expect any change in forum policy.

 

Harry

Here is my view.

 

Before i start i need to explain a few things.

 

I do not own ProAtc but i do have first-hand use of it, seen it being used and used it on a buddies rig.

 

I am a real world ATC simulator designer/developer developing state-of-the-art ATC 3D Tower and Radar simulators for UK, ICAO, Civil, Military and Air Defence use. I have held a UK CPL for over 15 years and i hold an ATC rating so its fair to say i know what an ATC simulation should be like and i have been flight simming for over 25 years.

 

Ok .... Now thats out of the way my view of ProAtc.

 

ProAtc is the newest ATC program on the market, its joining PFE, Radar Contact, VoxAtc and the default MSFS ATC. ProAtc is the 2nd most expensive ATC software and its fair to say compaired to FSX add-ons its very high in price.

 

ProAtc has a very in-depth Flight Plan Editor, is that really needed? There are many flight planners out there do we really need another one? I personally would rather use the one i want and dont want to pay for one i dont need.

 

ProAtc cannot say airline callsigns as would be said in real life, i would say that to be one of the most basic things any ATC program should be able to do, even FS's default can do that.

 

The developer has been noticably absent, ok i know he's been in ill helth but ... Alot of people have spent their hard money on this product, they deserve something. If someone is out of action as an employee the company should have a replacement if needed in the event of any person not being available. If the developer has been ill enough not to work then there should be a backup ... As its stands you pay your money and get nothing more if the devloper dies.

 

I seriously boubt if ProAtc has been tested by prof pilots ot Air Traffic Controllers. If it had then this product would not have been released in the half-baked state it was. If you bought a product from the high street and it a. performed like ProAtc does and b. you got the customer service like the ProAtc developer is giving you would have ground to take legal action.

 

There is one other ATC product being activly developed (VoxAtc), and Radar Contact does get support from its developer although development is no more. Come on Mr ProAtc, talk to your customers who have spent alot of money on your product and give them what you are advertising, a Pro ATC product, not a flight planner an ATC simulation that works as in the real world.

 

ProAtc has some nice features and some i really like, but as a simulation of real world ATC its way off the mark ... When it works that is.

 

I hope it gets there but the looooong awaited update needs to be very very good and masive in size.

 

As a footnote, i emailed the developer last year offering my services and advice (free of charge) from my ATC experance and background to help him make ProAtc better and more true to life ... I had no reply. I have no problem with that but for someone who is obviously strugling to develop i would have thought expert help would be a good thing.

 

Anyway ... My view is i doubt very much ProAtc is going to get there. If your happy with it then good for you but if your looking for an ATC simulation that works, is close to real life and gets developer support dont buy this product yet as its way off and the developer has 'probably' 85% of its customers win back on-side.

 

What ever product you have enjoy ATC.

 

Rich

Roy

 

Strange enogh that the current Version of pro-ATC/Xdosn't inclucde all subsequent updates but if it is difficult for you to find the Software how difficult would it be for me as a non pointsoftware member ? My Statement: lousy Support is not against you personally, it is against pointsoftware. Even if you knew it just from the 20.March on it is still lousy Support to let me wait until 26. march. Maybee some users here can help me out on asses my expectations. Isn't it a bit to Long to wait a month just for download a subsequent update (which shouldnt be necessary and included in the current Version) ? Are my expectations to high ? (maybee they are)

Now we come to the part where you treat me like a fool: Why on earth did you test a whole week and wasting time and let me wait instead of just send me the update ? I told you from the begining i need an older vesrion to sort out my Problem but you knew it better and told me that the older Version won't help. So why do you do that Roy ? Why don't you belive me when i say i need it to sort out my Problem ? I tell you why: I'm just a dumbas customer in your eyes, You Pro-ATC/X guys are kind of "elite circle". The user don't have to know and don't have to get involved or with the words of my beloved, and very special good friend Alpha 117: "there will be an Update soon but we will not tell you what's inside so don't even ask about it". What Kind of Information should that be ? i don't get it.

You can see me as a dumbas customer or you can see me as a fligtsim community member and work together. unfortunatley, you and Mourad Chose the first. But then please don't you wounder if a behave like a dumbass customer and moan arround if thing aren't working. I'm still openminded to work together, let me know if you are.

Yesterday in the Pro-ATC/X Forum Peter just did a Joke about the Update Release Date and you rebuke him rudely and immediatly locked the tread. 2 post before, your friend ywiman called Peter and me trolls. So what about rebuke him as well to don't do personal offenses ? Not objectively at all and there is where censorship starts. If there is anything against your opinion you start to lock and delete. Abuse of Administrator privilegues in my eyes.

best regards

Andi

I have been a regular customer from the very beginnig and got quite frustrated when the support and information policy of the developers got a serious change somewhen in spring last year. I also think that rjord tends to lock critical posts.But I still have some hope for pro atc, although I sadly don't expect any change in forum policy.

 

Harry

 

I am very reluctant to lock topics...however at times as the moderator of the forum I will at times need to lock down a topic.

 

Roy

Hi,

 

Many Pro ATC customers have got fed up with the way this whole project has been handled over the past year. Yes, I can use the product however in its current state it is just not fit for purpose as it does not follow real world practice at present. I am waiting for the update and hope that this will produce the results we are all hoping for.

 

The forum is for me a no go area. Over the past year we have seen regular slanging matches littering the forum with members at each others throats. My own opinion is that faults exist on both sides of the fence. Moderators seem ready to jump in at the first hint of negative comments being made.lock threads,and always try and take the high ground ,and to a casual visitor who may be a future buyer it is a real turn off.

 

Mourad and others associated with the product should take a long hard look at events and when the update is ready for release, bring forward a new outlook putting the customer first in a more open and honest manner.

 

For many,I fear that this will be too late.

Here is my view.

 

Before i start i need to explain a few things.

 

I do not own ProAtc but i do have first-hand use of it, seen it being used and used it on a buddies rig.

 

I am a real world ATC simulator designer/developer developing state-of-the-art ATC 3D Tower and Radar simulators for UK, ICAO, Civil, Military and Air Defence use. I have held a UK CPL for over 15 years and i hold an ATC rating so its fair to say i know what an ATC simulation should be like and i have been flight simming for over 25 years.

 

Ok .... Now thats out of the way my view of ProAtc.

 

ProAtc is the newest ATC program on the market, its joining PFE, Radar Contact, VoxAtc and the default MSFS ATC. ProAtc is the 2nd most expensive ATC software and its fair to say compaired to FSX add-ons its very high in price.

 

ProAtc has a very in-depth Flight Plan Editor, is that really needed? There are many flight planners out there do we really need another one? I personally would rather use the one i want and dont want to pay for one i dont need.

 

ProAtc cannot say airline callsigns as would be said in real life, i would say that to be one of the most basic things any ATC program should be able to do, even FS's default can do that.

 

The developer has been noticably absent, ok i know he's been in ill helth but ... Alot of people have spent their hard money on this product, they deserve something. If someone is out of action as an employee the company should have a replacement if needed in the event of any person not being available. If the developer has been ill enough not to work then there should be a backup ... As its stands you pay your money and get nothing more if the devloper dies.

 

I seriously boubt if ProAtc has been tested by prof pilots ot Air Traffic Controllers. If it had then this product would not have been released in the half-baked state it was. If you bought a product from the high street and it a. performed like ProAtc does and b. you got the customer service like the ProAtc developer is giving you would have ground to take legal action.

 

There is one other ATC product being activly developed (VoxAtc), and Radar Contact does get support from its developer although development is no more. Come on Mr ProAtc, talk to your customers who have spent alot of money on your product and give them what you are advertising, a Pro ATC product, not a flight planner an ATC simulation that works as in the real world.

 

ProAtc has some nice features and some i really like, but as a simulation of real world ATC its way off the mark ... When it works that is.

 

I hope it gets there but the looooong awaited update needs to be very very good and masive in size.

 

As a footnote, i emailed the developer last year offering my services and advice (free of charge) from my ATC experance and background to help him make ProAtc better and more true to life ... I had no reply. I have no problem with that but for someone who is obviously strugling to develop i would have thought expert help would be a good thing.

 

Anyway ... My view is i doubt very much ProAtc is going to get there. If your happy with it then good for you but if your looking for an ATC simulation that works, is close to real life and gets developer support dont buy this product yet as its way off and the developer has 'probably' 85% of its customers win back on-side.

 

What ever product you have enjoy ATC.

 

Rich

 

you can use any flight planner you like and then import it into proatcx..... or if you do not have a flight planner you can use the one that comes with proatcx.

 

Proatcx will then export to the pmdgs  737ngx / md-11 / 747 / JS41     and the airbus x extended (a320/a321) , Quality Wings aircraft and the ifly 737  ng and add the flightplan to be lodged with ATC into the aircraft FMS so you do not have to enter it manually. Import into the GPS of general aviation aircraft happens automatically and for other aircraft proatcx will create the FSX flight plan format used by both FSX or P3D to import into the GPs as a PLN file.

 

So in answer to your flight plan editor question you can use any flight planner you want but you will need to import the flight plan from what ever you use into proatcx simply because both the aircraft you fly and proatcx need to know what waypoints you are flying to the destination airport.

 

 

I am not sure why you are saying the developer is ill and not able to work........ that is not the case and he has been working hard on getting the new update ready to be released. I can assure you he is not on his last legs and about to die... I am not sure where you are getting that from. As happens to anybody he probably was down with a flu or something some time last year which I think is what you are referring to..

 

While he is devoting his time to development....... support queries are handled by the support guys so it frees him up to concentrate on development. This is how it should be.

Roy

 

Strange enogh that the current Version of pro-ATC/Xdosn't inclucde all subsequent updates but if it is difficult for you to find the Software how difficult would it be for me as a non pointsoftware member ? My Statement: lousy Support is not against you personally, it is against pointsoftware. Even if you knew it just from the 20.March on it is still lousy Support to let me wait until 26. march. Maybee some users here can help me out on asses my expectations. Isn't it a bit to Long to wait a month just for download a subsequent update (which shouldnt be necessary and included in the current Version) ? Are my expectations to high ? (maybee they are)

Now we come to the part where you treat me like a fool: Why on earth did you test a whole week and wasting time and let me wait instead of just send me the update ? I told you from the begining i need an older vesrion to sort out my Problem but you knew it better and told me that the older Version won't help. So why do you do that Roy ? Why don't you belive me when i say i need it to sort out my Problem ? I tell you why: I'm just a dumbas customer in your eyes, You Pro-ATC/X guys are kind of "elite circle". The user don't have to know and don't have to get involved or with the words of my beloved, and very special good friend Alpha 117: "there will be an Update soon but we will not tell you what's inside so don't even ask about it". What Kind of Information should that be ? i don't get it.

You can see me as a dumbas customer or you can see me as a fligtsim community member and work together. unfortunatley, you and Mourad Chose the first. But then please don't you wounder if a behave like a dumbass customer and moan arround if thing aren't working. I'm still openminded to work together, let me know if you are.

Yesterday in the Pro-ATC/X Forum Peter just did a Joke about the Update Release Date and you rebuke him rudely and immediatly locked the tread. 2 post before, your friend ywiman called Peter and me trolls. So what about rebuke him as well to don't do personal offenses ? Not objectively at all and there is where censorship starts. If there is anything against your opinion you start to lock and delete. Abuse of Administrator privilegues in my eyes.

best regards

Andi

 

 

1. The current version does include subsequent updates..... the fix that you found for the airport may have worked for you but it does not work for me..... be assured what ever the issue is it is not because the current version is missing a prior update. I have told you that the issue has been fixed in the coming version but you have found a fix in the meantime.

 

2. Between the 20th and the 26th I was looking into your issue and updating you in the forum with what I was finding.......while also moderating the forum , providing support and preparing to setup a new company for myself . I still disagree when you call support "lousy".

 

3. I have already discussed the month you were "waiting" for a version of the software that was 14 months old. Refer my prior reply to you above. I did not send it to you straight away because I had to search through my backup files looking for the thing which took several days to do....... 

 

4. Information about what is in the coming update will be announced closer to the release date. I have mentioned this in the forum many times.

 

5. The post you refer to about Peter and the release date was locked when Peter went too far as he normally does when he made a comment about the update that the developer is currently working on and used the word "pig".  That will not be tolerated in the proatcx forum and I did not rebuke him rudely......

 

6. That entire thread last night was removed this morning as it broke forum rules and as moderator I have already taken action on it. ywiman has already been spoken too about it what he said and i am reviewing the entire thread and will discuss issues with some other users to remind them of the forum guidelines and whether they crossed the lines of what is appropriate.Please note that the term "troll" was used 4 times between ywiman and sierra and at no stage did ywiman call either you or Peter a troll......

 

Please leave the moderation to me andi as I  did that about 6 hours ago.

 

 

 

Roy

I was one of the early buyers of the software, if i remember correctly the second day. I have spent a lot of money of ad dons, unfortunately PROATC X isn't complete. That being said, i am waiting for the update eagerly.

 

Flight simulation software is one of those markets, where customer isn't the king.  For better or for worse, this is exactly why we need a regulatory body. IMHO the backlash at PROATC is mainly because of the high cost involved for a half finished software. I spent the money, i might as well wait. This has taught me a lesson. Now a days i wait for YouTube reviews, even though some are one sided.

 

I wasn't trying to degrade anyone in my post. I understand the developer had personal reasons/ problems last year,  after reading the Proatc forums, after all we are only humans.

 

I am still saying, if done correctly, PROATC is going to be the best ATC unless some one can beat em .... :unsure:  All the best Rjord & others at Proatc... you guys have the idea... prove yourselves and the flight sim community.

 

Best regards ^_^

Mathew 

Hi,

 

Many Pro ATC customers have got fed up with the way this whole project has been handled over the past year. Yes, I can use the product however in its current state it is just not fit for purpose as it does not follow real world practice at present. I am waiting for the update and hope that this will produce the results we are all hoping for.

 

The forum is for me a no go area. Over the past year we have seen regular slanging matches littering the forum with members at each others throats. My own opinion is that faults exist on both sides of the fence. Moderators seem ready to jump in at the first hint of negative comments being made.lock threads,and always try and take the high ground ,and to a casual visitor who may be a future buyer it is a real turn off.

 

Mourad and others associated with the product should take a long hard look at events and when the update is ready for release, bring forward a new outlook putting the customer first in a more open and honest manner.

 

For many,I fear that this will be too late.

 

 

Hi

 

when I returned to the forum in September last year the entire forum was a battleground. Poor Shells who was the only moderator at the time was having a hard time controlling the situation as well as providing support.

 

I recognized an issue and immediately contacted the developer and volunteered to provide support and also was assigned a role as another moderator.

 

I spent 2 weeks going through the forum seeing what the issues were , putting out fires as they were being lit and more importantly answering support questions which had not been answered... 

 

 

 

Yes the past 12 months have seen plenty of arguing between members and this is why a forum moderator has to step in. As the forum moderator it is my job to enforce the rules of conduct and decorum and I need to step in at  times ready to intercede when interchanges between members in the forum become heated. My actions to resolve issues will depend on the tone of the discussions and if things get out of hand then I may have to lock down threads or remove them completely depending on the situation.

 

This can upset some commenters in the forum  leading  to the moderator being accused of censorship and being called a dictator. However that is part of being a forum moderator and I am thick skinned.

 

Any time I remove a thread I let the developer know the reason so he is aware of what his moderators are doing.

 

Some people take a dim view to what forum moderators do but I am not going to let the forum return to what it was like prior to September last year.

 

Proatcx forum moderator

Next Round:

1. The fix does also work for cbiflight and maybee for others as well so where they get the Updatefiles from now ?

2. - just different opinion - dosn't make sense to discuss any further

3. same

4. Why does it has to be like this ? don't you think you adore (not legaly) it to the users egarly waiting for an update ? 

5. if you Quote Peter, please Quote the hole sentense. He dosn't call anyone to be a pig. You didn't rebuke him rudely ? You told him and some other guys (probably me ?) that they are not longer welcome in the Forum if they not stop post like that.

6. what about "wow the trolls must be out there today in force" wasn't that meant for me an Peter ?

 

 it must be very hard to not have the last word and the ability to lock, isn't it ? :lol:

@amberfluid where has the opinion poll gone ?

Next Round:

1. The fix does also work for cbiflight and maybee for others as well so where they get the Updatefiles from now ?

2. - just different opinion - dosn't make sense to discuss any further

3. same

4. Why does it has to be like this ? don't you think you adore (not legaly) it to the users egarly waiting for an update ? 

5. if you Quote Peter, please Quote the hole sentense. He dosn't call anyone to be a pig. You didn't rebuke him rudely ? You told him and some other guys (probably me ?) that they are not longer welcome in the Forum if they not stop post like that.

6. what about "wow the trolls must be out there today in force" wasn't that meant for me an Peter ?

 

 it must be very hard to not have the last word and the ability to lock, isn't it ? :lol:

@amberfluid where has the opinion poll gone ?

 

 

 

Andi,,,,,

 

It is time you dropped this... I am pretty sure that the moderators of Avsim are not happy that this bickering is now taking place on their forum.

 

Please take your argument with me back to the proatcx forum where it belongs.