>What you are asking is a "leading" question, along the lines>of, "when did you stop beating your wife.">I see no point in your question, since I suspect that a lot of>folks fly BOTH, enjoy flying both, and mix up the challenge of>handflying with the relative ease (at least in cruise) that>automation offers. >But anyone who writes a sentence like: "if the autopilot does>everything where is the challenge," isn't really interested in>a discussion. >You are reading in something in my post that I don't mean. I wan't a discussion not a debate. I wan't to hear some opinions before I buy an airliner addon. And I think I have got some sensible and worthwile answers to my questions in the thread.

>"If the autopilot does everything where is the challange? ">>Ahh, the old common misconception that ALL heavy flying is>done using the AP, I think you will find that the vaste>majority of airliner sim pilots, and probably their real world>counterparts, fly as much of the route by hand as possible, I>like to hand fly all the way up to cruise alt, and then all>the way down from TOD.>I know that real pilots can choose to handfly (have read a book on the subject). My experience from FS is that it's much easier to use the autopilot most of the time. >Ok, the challenge is this, try flying the PROPER approach into>Funchal, Maderia, which incidentaly HAS to be hand flown as>there is no ILS, and its a circle to land approach, in a>737-800 with a 20kt crosswind, do this and tell me that there>is not challenge.>Exactly what airport do you have in mind? SimPlates 2004 don't know anything about funchal.>Flying airliners is challenging, its just that those>challanges are different.Then I think I'm interested in giving airliner flying a try (maybe PMDG B1900D counts).

Mike,In good weather approach phase is very often hand flown by pilots - I guess they figure they have to do some hand flying once in a while to stay profficient. It makes sense - many published visual approaches would be difficult (or unnatural) to be flown with the AP - take for example the Quiet Bridge at KSFO. SOP for automation often specify marginal or bad weather.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

>My question is aimed to those who prefer to fly big jets like>PMDG 737NG for example rather than smaller GA plane.Very often it is a matter of 'dreaming the impossible'. What is the least likely plane I would be able to fly in real life? Probably some heavy iron stuff, right? OK, so this would be the type I want to fly in my phantasy simulated world ... Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

It

All the information you need to know on Funchal > http://www.dangerous-airports.com/airports/l/lpma.htmDan.

Well actually you'll find the opposite is true. Commercial ops are there to make money. The autopilot coupled to an FMS will fly the aircraft much more efficiently than any human. The autopilot will be generally be engaged at about 700' aal and disengaged anywhere between 2500' and 50' aal (or not at all on CAT III autoland approach).The irony is that many simulators (not FS!) now resemble the actual operation of a/c so closely that the JAA does not actually require any manouvres to be done in a real aircraft either for the initial type rating not for recurrent training on those simulators. So the need to hand fly to stay current is reduced even more.

Try flying a flight with PMDG 737 using FMC, correct autopilot settings, following SIDs/STARs, in bad weather, etc. and I think you'll quickly see what the challenge is. Things happen much faster in big jets, there are a lot more systems to monitor, and it's much harder to recover from even a minor mistake.Matt

My only flying is as a passenger on big jets, thus Ican relate to them best.GA planes are too slow for me.Peter Sydney Australia

try flying HJG's DC8 online,using sids and stars,with the Delco INS,and without autothrottle and altitude capturing...it's fun,even more fun as the PMDG 737,which i think is really a nice plane,but it does not really invite to handflying.that -8 i must fly by hand,even in adverse weather.also a 727 is nice to fly.and GA is too slow for me,i do however enjoy flying a chopper or the aerocommander now and then.but as always:so much people,so much opinions.it all boils down to what you like :)tataJP.

I'm not trying to nitpick, but want is a word, not a contraction, in English. Hence it's "want" and not "wan't". Although English is such a screwy language, that I can see how anyone could have problems with it. I've wondered about the Heavies vs. GA flying myself. I like flying GA because it's much closer to something that I hope to be able to do in real life at some point, whereas at 41 my chances for a career in flying heavies is all but evaporated. However, I can definitely see the allure of large iron as well, with all the systems to learn and navigation techniques to employ. Heck, I even like trying helicopters now and then for the challenge, even though I well and truly suck at flying them.thanks,

Also economy comes into play on a clear day often pilots will do visual approaches etc as they can come in closer to the airport on finals thus saving money.I think (don't quote me) that pilots are still required to do a certain number of different types of landing per month - IFR, and vfr.

The question is, why do you need to go fast? It't not like you're racing down a track trying to beat your previous record by 1 second you know :)

The most challenging thing about flying those old heavies is that you are alone. Normaly there would be 2 pilots in the cockpit and a flight engineer.And of course they have the proper training too. ;)That said, I enjoy flying like listening to music! It all the depends on the mood I'm in.:-batcheers,Claudio

>The question is, why do you need to go fast? It't not like>you're racing down a track trying to beat your previous record>by 1 second you know :):-lol ,but i DO have a train to catch every day,and err..if i was to fly from LIRF to CYUL i'd rather do it in my -8...then it's 8 hours or so...if i'd do that in a C172...well...you know what i mean ;)same goes for any other flight really.but that's the beauty of simming...one can do what one likes most.tataJP.