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FSX-Fan2013

Engine Fire

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Hello,

I've got just a little question. When I have an engine fire, I am always able to extinguish the fire. Is it also possible, that that i may be unable to extinguish the fire? If yes, do I have to set that in the Menu in the FMC or does that happens sometimes automatically?

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When I have an engine fire, I am always able to extinguish the fire. Is it also possible, that that i may be unable to extinguish the fire? If yes, do I have to set that in the Menu in the FMC or does that happens sometimes automatically?

 

First, it posted (there's a forum glitch - not entirely your fault that it posted multiple times, though it's always good to check before spamming the button  :wink: )

 

Second, I'm not sure.  I'm sure there are real world scenarios where it won't extinguish, but I'm sure they're even more unlikely than an engine fire to begin with.  I'm not aware of any setting to force that.

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Just curious: Why would you want to be unable to extinguish the fire?

 

Don't use the fire extinguishers if you want the fire there...

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Just curious: Why would you want to be unable to extinguish the fire?

 

Don't use the fire extinguishers if you want the fire there...

Maybe he wants to simulate a fire that couldn't be put out. It could happen. In the big sim, sometimes the fires go out with one bottle or two. Or not at all. I don't know of a 737 that has had a fire that didn't go out, though.

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Maybe he wants to simulate a fire that couldn't be put out. It could happen. In the big sim, sometimes the fires go out with one bottle or two. Or not at all. I don't know of a 737 that has had a fire that didn't go out, though.

 

Say you could have a fire that wouldn't go out. It would make no difference on the procedure, right?

 

You'd still land as soon as possible, fire still there or not.

 

On the real plane you're never completely sure if there are still hot spots on the engine, if there's been any severe damage etc... You just land ASAP.

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Or not at all. I don't know of a 737 that has had a fire that didn't go out, though.

 

Few years ago D-AXLF (B738) landed with engine in fire. Every fire goes out... eventually.  :P

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Say you could have a fire that wouldn't go out. It would make no difference on the procedure, right?

You would evacuate on the Runway/Taxiway for example.

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Say you could have a fire that wouldn't go out. It would make no difference on the procedure, right?

 

You'd still land as soon as possible, fire still there or not.

 

On the real plane you're never completely sure if there are still hot spots on the engine, if there's been any severe damage etc... You just land ASAP.

Hmmm. I think you're going to run the QRH the same, but let's say you're at the ETP at FL220, half way to Maui from Seattle. The fire goes out. Keep truckin'.

 

The fire doesn't go out. . .  hmmmm. 3 hours from land with a wing burning. . . and, Captain, the fire is getting worse. . . the passengers are screaming, Captain. . . the first officer just widdled himself. . . o gosh!

 

Plus, some simmers want to see certain things. Eg "Have you gotten that awesome marshaller add-on with the guy with the correct color vest at ZSQD? So awesome!"

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Have you gotten that awesome marshaller add-on with the guy with the correct color vest at ZSQD? So awesome!

 

Oh gawd...don't get me started.

 

I love the GSX add-on that's all "That wasn't a very good parking!!!" when you have the plane perfectly on the line, with the wheel right on your aircraft's hash mark.  Ramp ops are beyond messed up on Flight Sim add-ons, mostly because (like a lot of other things), the developers assume it's a rigid thing.

 

When I was working ground ops for Air [state], I'm pretty sure there was a different procedure for just about every airline we worked with: LOF, BTA, ASQ (they were separate at the time), CJC (they existed at the time), RPA, GJC, and ASH.

 

One operator only allowed us to use their GPUs, another required airstairs for half of their Lawn Darts, another only allowed their own airstairs for all of their Lawn Darts, another required a special box to step down the power off of the wall unit, another allowed the torque links to be disconnected on their Reset Jets while the others didn't.  Heck, even terminal to terminal things were different: no directional pushes off of the A gates (only straight back), while the C/D gates occasionally instructed them.  For the CRJ7s and E170s, only a single engine was allowed to be started during the push (regardless of operator) because our crappy Lektro tugs couldn't handle the idle thrust plus all of the weight.

 

In FSX?  You're not even out remotely away from the gate and half the add-ons are all "yeah, go ahead and spin all engines."  Never mind the fact that a 777's two-engine idle thrust can easily overpower some of the push back tugs out there.

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In FSX? You're not even out remotely away from the gate and half the add-ons are all "yeah, go ahead and spin all engines." Never mind the fact that a 777's two-engine idle thrust can easily overpower some of the push back tugs out there.
Haha. I basically ignore everything it says. "Cleared to start", "That wasn't very good parking". Pfft!

 

One thing you can do with the pushback is edit the sound to add, say, 30 seconds silence between "starting push" and "cleared to start engines".

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Haha. I basically ignore everything it says. "Cleared to start", "That wasn't very good parking". Pfft!

 

Yeah, that's what I end up doing as well.  I wonder how many simmers think it's nearly impossible to do things in aviation because of programs like this...

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Sometimes I get annoyed when AES takes about 2 seconds to complete Tow and equipment disconnection right after pushback.

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Ahhh so this is the active thread (there are three of these)!

 

So, since all you pilots have your engine fire caps on, here is a question:

 

We'll assume the engine fire detection and protection systems are working properly, meaning they themselves have no failures. So the question to ponder is: can you get a full on engine fire warning in the cockpit and not actually have a fire on that engine?

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Hmmm. I think you're going to run the QRH the same, but let's say you're at the ETP at FL220, half way to Maui from Seattle. The fire goes out. Keep truckin'.
 
The fire doesn't go out. . .  hmmmm. 3 hours from land with a wing burning. . . and, Captain, the fire is getting worse. . . the passengers are screaming, Captain. . . the first officer just widdled himself. . . o gosh!

 

Oh well, let's hope USCG cutter Pontchartrain is nearby...

 

 

 


So the question to ponder is: can you get a full on engine fire warning in the cockpit and not actually have a fire on that engine?

 

Good question... of course you always have a fire in the engine...

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>Good question... of course you always have a fire in the engine

 

Yes, of course, but we're not talking about that fire. We're talking about the area of the engine where the fire loops are located around the inside of the engine cowlings.

 

So here is a hint: the answer is yes you can get a full on engine fire warning without actually having an engine fire (not talking about the turbine exhaust gas fire).

 

So, now the question becomes how? What could cause this trigger if not a real fire?

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A break in the fire wire?

 

No, that would not do it and for the sake of the question, i stated that the fire detection and protection system was assumed to be working correctly  B)

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We'll assume the engine fire detection and protection systems are working properly, meaning they themselves have no failures. So the question to ponder is: can you get a full on engine fire warning in the cockpit and not actually have a fire on that engine?

 

Yes, a bleed air leak could be hot enough to trigger a fire warning.

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>Yes, a bleed air leak could be hot enough to trigger a fire warning.

 

Absolutely correct. Now, can you tell from the cockpit if this is your situation? or do you have a real fire in the engine?

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Absolutely correct. Now, can you tell from the cockpit if this is your situation? or do you have a real fire in the engine?

 

I suppose no abnormal engine indications could tip one off. 

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Absolutely correct. Now, can you tell from the cockpit if this is your situation? or do you have a real fire in the engine?

 

Maybe you could check the duct pressure in the pneumatic system. If one needle is lower than the other, that could mean there's a leak.

 

If there's a bleed air leak, maybe a Pack would malfunction or go inop and you'd get the corresponding warning for that.

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Jaime - Bingo!! You're the man today...!!!

 

Some airlines in the US and outside of the US have their engine fire procedures written with a bleed air duct rupture in mind. Those procedures are generally written such that when the throttle is pulled back to idle, some time is spent waiting to see if the red fire light goes out. If it does, a visual check is made of the engine and if it looks ok, the crew will keep the offending engine at idle and land as soon as possible.

 

However, this is NOT the procedure that Boeing follows on this plane so don't do it! This was just a discussion to get our minds thinking on the topic.

 

I can tell you that almost every carrier's engine fire checklist is different from the factory checklist. My experience with the manufacturers is that only about 20% of the customers use the factory checklists. 80% have their own. There are reasons for this but pilot standardization is the big one. Delta at one time flew the L-1011, DC-10 and 747 all at the same time. They moved pilots around on them (one month at a time) such that you might fly the 747 one month, the DC-10 the next, etc.

 

They only had one way to secure an engine because of a fire so it didn't matter what jumbo you were flying, the steps were the same. And that's why they didn't give a hoot about how the factory did it.

 

Great thinking Jaime...!!!

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Maybe you could check the duct pressure in the pneumatic system. If one needle is lower than the other, that could mean there's a leak.

Ah, but one needle is often lower than the other. The inflight differential should be within 20psi though.

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