Regarding the 747 v2

[EmilvK 0]

I agree with Kyle that it is very obvious that PMDG has not a 'money grabbing' policy or business model. No need of PMDG confirming it.

 

With SP1 we almost got a complete redesign of systems of the 77L. Many other add-on providers would have charged for a SP that services much more than just some bugs, but gives us additional functionality and a correction of what PMDG admitted they modelled wrong (FBW). Other developpers wouldn't have even admitted this and just stayed quite about it. We weren't even forced to buy the -300 to get access to the full SP.

 

The only commercial tactic I see is their professionalism that made me and others buy it.

 

In everything that PMDG has done since I discovered them, I just can see that it is a company that loves our hobby and loves to serve it.

However it remains a commercial company and needs to make money. But 'money grabbing' just sounds very wrong when related to PMDG and I'm sure that only assuming it in public on this forum must be hurting and painful to at least some members of their team.

IMO 90+30$ for a 777-300 is "money grabbing"

I will probably get s@!% from the lovely avsim community for saying my opinion, and sorry for not having a signature above...

 

 

EmilvK

[Werner747 107]

 

 

Exactly. The base pack for the 737 included the 800, the most popular of the NG series. The 600 and 700 were add-ons.

 

Yeah...   But the NG uses one engine type.   This is Kyle's point.   If you had to model each and every model of engine for a particular airframe, it consumes time, and it makes more sense to give the community the aircraft with similar engine types as opposed to designing all the engine variants for one airframe.   You could argue that operationally the differences between the P&W, GE, and RR engines are small, but you still have to get the modeling right to make sure everything works the way that it should. Especially considering how much people tend to moan and groan when PMDG takes time producing an aircraft!   They want it yesterday!

 

Besides, the -200LR is a 200, and in fact you can do MORE with it than a 200/-200ER.   So why worry about it that much?     

 

 

 

IMO 90+30$ for a 777-300 is "money grabbing"
I will probably get s@!% from the lovely avsim community for saying my opinion, and sorry for not having a signature above...

 

Think about what you are saying now...   The MOST benefit that we are getting from the whole release is the SP1 right?   I mean, that is where the core upgrades are - the WXR, the udpates and fixes to the FBW system etc.   Right?   Okay so now PMDG also gives us a new aircraft the 77W in addition to that.   But the core upgrades to the base package we get for FREE.   And this means that I can have all that functionality whether I PURCHASE THE 77W OR NOT.   

 

PMDG have always released their SP's free of charge, but if you look at the major overhaul that they did on this project which they provide FREE OF CHARGE to their customers, that alone is worth far more than the 30 bucks you are moaning about for an expansion.   Because IF you CHOOSE to buy the 77W you get a WHOLE DIFFERENT AIRCRAFT but I don't need to buy it if I want all those improvements and extras now do I?

 

So where exactly are PMDG grabbing money again?   Seriously man, not to start an argument with you, but THINK before you make posts like this as there is no basis to support your accusations mate.

 

Kind regards

[WotanUK 289]

IMO 90+30$ for a 777-300 is "money grabbing"

I will probably get s@!% from the lovely avsim community for saying my opinion, and sorry for not having a signature above...

 

 

EmilvK

 

So what do you think is a fair price?

 

May i ask what is your employment?  Do you think that you are worth what you are paid?

 

I think that PMDG do charge a premium price, but they also provide a premium product, the cost is broadly inline with other add-ons of similar quality, the Majestic Q400 (in my humble opinion the only other add-on that is at the same level) is 50 euro for a single model the 777-200LR/F is 67 euro for two models.

[4116705510 4]

IMO 90+30$ for a 777-300 is "money grabbing"

I will probably get s@!% from the lovely avsim community for saying my opinion, and sorry for not having a signature above...

 

 

EmilvK

 

Be glad there's no price control for these sorts of things.  If they weren't allowed to charge $90 for the product, it wouldn't be made (likely).

[ajpongress 467]

IMO 90+30$ for a 777-300 is "money grabbing"

I will probably get s@!% from the lovely avsim community for saying my opinion, and sorry for not having a signature above...

 

 

EmilvK

 

This isn't a game that some kid picks up along with |Call of Duty for their Xbox at Best Buy.

It's a niche hobby simulation and the amount of work that goes into creating in depth high fidelity products is worthy of the price tag in my opinion.

You basically have an almost 100% fully functional 777 level-D simulator in your own home for a significant fraction of the cost that the real simulators go for.

 

If you don't like the price, then no one is forcing you to buy it either.

 

P.S.

You quoted signatures but still failed to sign your full name. Just sayin'.

[pcubine 143]

 

 

This isn't a game that some kid picks up along with |Call of Duty for their Xbox at Best Buy.

It's a niche hobby simulation and the amount of work that goes into creating in depth high fidelity products is worthy of the price tag in my opinion.

+1

[Superdelphinus 718]

The market forces create the prices at the end of the day. The only thing I'd say I think is a bit lacking from this market is critical journalism - most of it is relentlessly positive no matter the add-on.

 

This is in no way relevant to pmdg products though which are genuinely superb and when I look at hours used per £ I really get my money's worth.

[KriVa 307]

I'm just going to leave this here...

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/447430-blunt-warning-sign-your-posts-or/

[Hangman 10]

The market forces create the prices at the end of the day. The only thing I'd say I think is a bit lacking from this market is critical journalism - most of it is relentlessly positive no matter the add-on.

 

This is in no way relevant to pmdg products though which are genuinely superb and when I look at hours used per £ I really get my money's worth.

Only towards a couple of the higher end developers such as PMDG. Perhaps people think they're more likely to become beta testers that way

 

I have bought the 747, MD11, JS41, both variants of the NGX, and both 777s - I support them and like their products. I also don't mind paying a bit more than I would for an addon from another developer. My comments relate to the sequence in which the addons are released.

 

What was stopping them releasing the 777-300ER as the base pack.... etc. That's the similarity box ticked as there is only one version, and then leave the 777-200LR as the second add on. Probably because very few people would buy it, but lots more would buy the -300ER (and have).

 

Even if the 747s do end up being split for 'similarity' reasons, and RR could be a prime candidate as its triple spool and was actually cited, if my memory serves me correctly, as a reason during the FIRST FS9 release for not being fully simulated in the first edition, we needed to wait for the cargo version for it to be included though it was a free update.

 

I'm hoping all three come in one go, not because I am too bothered about price but instead because I want to fly the most popular (airline wise) versions first. I'm not interested in any PW carriers, so want the RR and GE engine types on my hard drive first.

 

Same principle with the 777-200LR. A couple of you are insulting our intelligence by saying 'well, it has more performance so whats the problem' when in the same vein are writing about PMDG offering a Level-D experience. The issue with this is we have such excellent aircraft from PMDG that people want to fly the correct version for their airline of choice. Anything less is not truly fulfilling.

 

In summary, whatever PMDG do I'll end up buying it. I like their aircraft and they are one of the major parties keeping me interested in flight simming. I don't really mind paying more for their aircraft than for any others, my only request is that we get the popular versions of the aircraft first instead of a niche product like the 777-200LR.

[hopskip 253]

I'm actually kind of glad they gave us the -200LR first. If I had of had my hands on the -300ER I probably would have jumped right into flying Virgin Australia, Air New Zealand, British and American flights and ignored the -200LR and the -200F.

 

Instead it got me using airlines I wouldn't have really given much thought to so I could fly the right aircraft type. While the usual easy stuff was still there, Delta, Air Canada, Emirates etc, I started flying routes of Qatar, Ethiopan, Pakistan International, Turkmenistan airways and so on.

 

That said, the -300ER will open up my 777 route structure somewhat!

[RomeoMike 10]

The market forces create the prices at the end of the day.

 

Correct and PMDG prices are in line with the market of high-end add-ons. Their products are the best you can get. Some years ago we didn't expect that one day we would have this degree of realism available to us. All the work that went in there needs to be paid and what we paid was rewarded by SP1 which was a great bonus we got for free.

 

 

 

Only towards a couple of the higher end developers such as PMDG. Perhaps people think they're more likely to become beta testers that way

 

I wouldn't have the time to become a Beta tester, and certainly not the patience..

Ok, you are stating that PMDG are money-grabbers, but are you also saying that their products are over-estimated by reviewers?

 

 

 

Same principle with the 777-200LR. A couple of you are insulting our intelligence by saying 'well, it has more performance so whats the problem' when in the same vein are writing about PMDG offering a Level-D experience.

.

 

I understand your frustration here as I was disappointed too when I first heard that that neither the 200ER nor the 300ER would be released first. It never stopped me from having fun flying the LR, doing routes and airlines that otherwise I wouldn't have done. The LR is in use with major airlines like Air Canada, Delta, Emirates,..., and is becoming the cargo hauler of choice for many other airliners.

I understand you on this point, but still refuse to agree on your insinuation that this was a money-grabbing policy.

Without knowing of course I would say their policy was a policy of "how can we do the biggest variety of accurate models in the shortest amount of time possible with the ressources we have, keeping it affordable to the average simmer".

They came up with the equal engine models for the LR and 300ER, adding that the LR can be seen as two models in one as there is the pax version and freighter version.

And at the end this policy made all these varieties more or less affordable to us.

 

But at the end I don't know their policies and neither do you. I am willing to pay their prices and I haven't regretted any cent spend on their products so far. That's what counts for me.

[fakeflyer737 1,009]

I'll bet $100 PMDG releases the 747-8 before they release the -400

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I'll bet $100 PMDG releases the 747-8 before they release the -400

 

All of RSR's updates about the upcoming 747 refer to it as the 744v2.  You sure you wanna make that bet?

 

Cool thing about text versus a handshake is that I can flag this post with a reminder 

 

EDIT:

Even better, and more specific:

 

The 747-400v2.0 project will initial model the 747-400 (well, duh, Rob... really?) and will then be followed by an expansion pack which adds the 747-8i, along with the required model/cockpit/systems/logic changes that are incorporated into the 747-8i/F fleet.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/378934-general-update-07jul12/

[WotanUK 289]

I'll bet $100 PMDG releases the 747-8 before they release the -400

 

I'll take that bet, can we up that to $1000?