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Ai Controller (Sid, Jet Route, Star And Final Approach) Beta

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Any other suggestions?

 

If 2 AI planes become nose-to-nose remove one or both planes.

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I have a lot of funny things happen. Ai is landing, stops on the runway and then accelerates and driving on ground to anywhere.

 

During final, round about 400 feet high and straight in landing, AI makes a 90 degrees turn and interrupts final ....

 

I tested at LEPA and at the beginnig i have round about 40 AI on ground. After 30 minutes only 2 left, cause 90 % of landing AI are removed on the runway. I don´t know if I am to stupid to understand the documentation which I read carefully. nevertheless i will post my INI. someone an idea whats wrong ?! Thanx a lot .

 

Do the AI fly the STAR/SID ok?  If not, then you might not have the correct simconnect.  Also, make sure no second window is overlayed while observing AI traffic.  If you want to observe AI traffic, use the View/View mode/AI Traffic mode.

 

Sometimes the autogen is based on a recording of a bad approach and should be deleted/regenerated.  They can be found in the Autogen Cache directory.

 

Also, any AI that lands without clearance will have to be deleted because it will lack taxi services to gate (prevents the AI from just sitting on the landing runway after rollout).  If you want to prevent this from happening (AI landing without clearance), change AILandWithoutClearance = 1 to AILandWithoutClearance = 0 

 

BTW, all of these issues like deleting the AI because it can't get taxi service and autogens are going away in version 1.4 (because the AI will always be able to get taxi service after it lands so the AI can fly any type of final approach the user wants).

 

I would also bump your AIseparationdistance down to 2.0 (or 3.0 max).

 

-Roland

 

 

1,  Once an aircraft leaves the SID will it automatically pickup the UT2 flightplan - remember UT2 generates realistic flightplans based on Jet Routes and also the user can add their own.

 

2.  Can you force an aircraft type to use a specific SID.  e.g. EGPF NGY or DCS sids.  In real life Jet aircraft departing RWY 05 for a southern airport (EGKK, EGLL) will use NGY3J SID for departure while turboprops will use any of the DCS SIDS.

 

In my current observations my Jet traffic is also using the DCS SIDS which is incorrect.  I am guessing this is down to the fact that it is shorter to do a right turn after departure to DCS than a left turn to NGY??

 

Thanks!

 

Regarding 1), yes it should as long as the AIController jetroute option isn't active (AIJetRoutesEnabled = 0).  That would only be if you actually followed the AI.  Most of the time, user position and the departing AI position will diverge, such that the AI eventually leaves your reality bubble.

 

Regarding 2), yes, a pattern name field in a STAR or SID beginning with “PROP” is only selected for AI prop aircraft (e.g., "PROP ONLY DCS", see p. 21 of the readme).  It is also possible to lock a SID to a departure runway by adding the runway to the SID's runway field.

 

 

I guess if I only have certain SIDS then that´s all that will be used?

 

Yes, that's the best approach IMO.  Narrow down the SID(s) from what's available to a compatible set of what is normally used.  Also, if you're dealing with automatically generated SIDs (from nav data) at an airport you depart frequently from, it pays to tweak the SID data.

 

-Roland

 

If 2 AI planes become nose-to-nose remove one or both planes.

 

Good one, thanks! 

 

-Roland

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Hi Roland

 

Thanks for the quick response.  I have had my FSX loaded up all day at EGPF (Glasgow Airport) and been plane spotting in between work.

 

I was asking about the UT2 flight plans because I have noticed several times now that when an aircraft reaches the SID exit point under AI Controller the AI aircraft will fly off in what appears to be a random direction.

 

I spent a lot of time over the last year or so developing actual flightplans for my UT2 departures from EGPF and EGPH and, unable to assign correct SID departures I simply used the SID exit point as one of the flightplan waypoints.

 

What might be a good feature would be for those using UT2 is that, if they write their own flightplans then AI Controller drops control at the SID exit point for UT2 to take over.  Maybe that is how it works already but something in my configuration either for AI Controller of UT2 flightplan is preventing this?

 

e.g.  I watched a Loganair SF340 (TFS Model) depart RWY 23 on a ROBBO 2A SID today en route EGPF-EGPO, with a user created flightplan written to the UT2 database.  My flightplan has LOMON as the SID exit point.  However everything was perfect right up to the final waypoint of ROBBO.  At that point the aircraft turned and headed 180º and then seemed to get lost and eventually timed out.

 

I have Jetroutes=0 (deactited) in my AIConnect.ini file and the remainder of the file is as supplied i.e. no alterations other than adding the SID-STARS line.

 

Any idea on what could cause this.

 

And finally, what a fantastic bit of software.  It´s actually fun just to sit at the airport now and watch the movements.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Ken

 

 

 


Complete and utter insurrection

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Roland,

 

Thanks. This is getting interesting. Just a couple questions.

 

Will the taxiing traffic be aware of the user aircraft?

 

How will the taxiing AI controlled by your program mesh with current ATC programs? I am thinking about ProATC-X which is again being actively developed.

 

What are the chances that you will be able to apply the logic used for AI as instructions for the user aircraft? You know where that's going I suppose :) I am guessing that a full blown ATC program has several challenges beyond controlling traffic in the background. That may explain the fact that there are so few offerings on the market. If you could apply your wizardry to the user aircraft, along with a comprehensive user interface, you could charge (and get) a premium price.

 

But I wonder...most addons take default functionality to a higher level. What are the chances you could enhance the default ATC as regards the user aircraft, while maintaining control of AI? Adding regional voices, procedures and a first officer to handle radios would just about do it.

 

This is all conjecture and very unfair to you. It just seems that you 'get it'. At any rate, if you could have a look at the questions waaaaaaay up at the top of this post, I'd be grateful.


Regards,

Graham Derreck

CYMM

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Hi Roland

 

Further to my previous email, I have been checking the AI Monitor Rev 1.3A and can confirm that AI Controller is not releasing my UT2 AI aircraft on reaching any of the SIDS.  AI Controller does a perfect job of getting the UT2 AI to the SID departure waypoint but then it maintains control and then routes the UT2 AI 90% of the time back to the departing airport, in my case EGPF.

 

best regards

 

Ken


Complete and utter insurrection

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Do the AI fly the STAR/SID ok?  If not, then you might not have the correct simconnect.  Also, make sure no second window is overlayed while observing AI traffic.  If you want to observe AI traffic, use the View/View mode/AI Traffic mode.

 

AI fly the SID/STARS ok. Simconnect is working fine. The problem with the overlayed window is understood. WHAT is the View/View mode/AI Traffic mode ? Where can i adjust this item ?

 

Sometimes the autogen is based on a recording of a bad approach and should be deleted/regenerated.  They can be found in the Autogen Cache directory.

 

- ckecked -

 

Also, any AI that lands without clearance will have to be deleted because it will lack taxi services to gate (prevents the AI from just sitting on the landing runway after rollout).  If you want to prevent this from happening (AI landing without clearance), change AILandWithoutClearance = 1 to AILandWithoutClearance = 0 

 

- checked - means on busy airports a lot of holdings ?!

 

BTW, all of these issues like deleting the AI because it can't get taxi service and autogens are going away in version 1.4 (because the AI will always be able to get taxi service after it lands so the AI can fly any type of final approach the user wants).

 

I would also bump your AIseparationdistance down to 2.0 (or 3.0 max).

 

- checked -

 

-Roland

 

 

thanx pepe

 

 

 

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Roland,

 

Will the method for converting airac data for use in your program change with the update? It is a bit of a drawn out process, given that I do the entire world. But a small price to pay.

 

Also, I assume that the data conversion will have to be run each time there is a nav data update in order to update your database. Correct?

 

Finally, I notice when thenprogram initializes, that a graph is read. Does the program check to see if data has changed and, if necessary, recreate the graph? If not, how do we do that?

Conversion of the entire PMDG nav folder took me 45 mins or so. Previous version of AISIDSTAR handled them all being acitve. 45 mins for months worth seems fine to me. Just drop and replace. You could always just keep data the same every 3 months like I know some do. Not too many changes happen at once.

Hi Roland

 

Just installed V1.3 as a new user of this brilliant piece of software.  I am using UT2 with good results, watching aircraft depart from EGPF.  I have a couple of questions so far.

 

1,  Once an aircraft leaves the SID will it automatically pickup the UT2 flightplan - remember UT2 generates realistic flightplans based on Jet Routes and also the user can add their own.

 

2.  Can you force an aircraft type to use a specific SID.  e.g. EGPF NGY or DCS sids.  In real life Jet aircraft departing RWY 05 for a southern airport (EGKK, EGLL) will use NGY3J SID for departure while turboprops will use any of the DCS SIDS.

 

In my current observations my Jet traffic is also using the DCS SIDS which is incorrect.  I am guessing this is down to the fact that it is shorter to do a right turn after departure to DCS than a left turn to NGY??

 

I guess if I only have certain SIDS then that´s all that will be used?

 

Just wanted to see if it was possible to allocated SIDS to aircraft types.

Thanks again.

 

Ken

The way I did it was make an "active" folder. Drop the respective airports SIDS and STARS I want used. Aircraft had no choice but to use those. Sounds like you're using whatever there is for EGPF. This means a crap shoot with what the program assigns AI.

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Hi russianspd

 

I've also created the folders with the respective files. My question was more to do with two similar SIDS that route aircraft South/East from EGPF. NGY is mostly used in real life for Southern traffic i.e EGKk, EGLL and TLA is for South East /East. However my scheduled flights from EGPF to EGKK and EGLL are using the TLA SID which takes the aicraft too Far East before heading South.

 

It would be neat if AIController could read the UT2 flightplan and use the SID exit point in the UT2 flightplan to choose the correct departure SID.

 

But my other problem is that after the aicraft exits the SID, the aircraft wanders off and does not continue per the UT2 flightplan


Complete and utter insurrection

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Hi Roland

 

Further to my previous email, I have been checking the AI Monitor Rev 1.3A and can confirm that AI Controller is not releasing my UT2 AI aircraft on reaching any of the SIDS.  AI Controller does a perfect job of getting the UT2 AI to the SID departure waypoint but then it maintains control and then routes the UT2 AI 90% of the time back to the departing airport, in my case EGPF.

 

best regards

 

Ken

 

Ken,

 

Download ver. 1.3B, which is linked in this thread (I need to put the 1.3B link in the original thread post). Edit: see post #70 (I think: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/447974-ai-controller-sid-jet-route-star-and-final-approach-beta/#70  BTW, does anyone know if there is a way for the thread start to update the original message?

 

Just to verify, are you using the UT2Compatibility = 1 parameter?  If you enable that parameter, you might also want to bump AIMaxSpawnDistanceFromSTAR down around 70.  

 

In UT2Compatibility mode (UT2Compatibility = 1), the AI should not turn around back to the airport after existing the SID, instead the AI will either continue on a great circle to the destination (AIJetRoutesEnabled = 0), but will not join a UT2 jetroute, or it will join an AIController generated jetroute (AIJetRoutesEnabled = 1).  Edit: I just realized this contradicts what I told you earlier (AI will pick up UT2 route), sorry.  Do you usually follow the AI when it departs?  If not, as your reality bubble moves (e.g., your user aircraft is enroute), UT2 should inject AI into your reality bubble as normal on assigned (or custom) jetroutes.  AIController won't interfere with UT2 for AI farther than AIMaxSpawnDistanceFromSTAR (for arrivals) and AIMaxSpawnDistanceFromSID (for departures) from a monitored airport (assuming AIJetRoutesEnabled = 0).

 

-Roland

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Will the taxiing traffic be aware of the user aircraft?

 

How will the taxiing AI controlled by your program mesh with current ATC programs? I am thinking about ProATC-X which is again being actively developed.

 

Yes, it will be aware of all aircraft position data (including occupied gates and parking areas) and whether any AI or user aircraft is getting too close to AI controlled by AIController.  The general plan is that if an AIController controlled "AI" comes into conflict with an AI controlled by some other program (e.g., AI pointed nose-to-nose on the same taxiway is a good example provided by Jim) or user aircraft, the AIController "AI" will be deleted to avoid problems and maintain compatibility.

 

If I eventually take over all AI taxi operations, then I'll know the taxi routes for all AI (not just mine), which should help me lessen conflicts in the first place.

 

My program generates a telemetry file regarding what it is doing to the AI and the program's intentions that can be read by any interested third-party program.

 

I'm interested in integrating with a full ATC solution down the road, but right now I'm just trying to push out 1.4 (not let it stall).  

 

-Roland

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In addition to Jim's suggestion, can it be an option to remove an AI from a specific gate in case you landed and the pre-assigned gate for the Airline you are flying is occupied?


Arslan Nouar

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Hi russianspd

 

I've also created the folders with the respective files. My question was more to do with two similar SIDS that route aircraft South/East from EGPF. NGY is mostly used in real life for Southern traffic i.e EGKk, EGLL and TLA is for South East /East. However my scheduled flights from EGPF to EGKK and EGLL are using the TLA SID which takes the aicraft too Far East before heading South.

 

It would be neat if AIController could read the UT2 flightplan and use the SID exit point in the UT2 flightplan to choose the correct departure SID.

 

But my other problem is that after the aicraft exits the SID, the aircraft wanders off and does not continue per the UT2 flightplan

Could you just remove the TLA departure sid? That way they'll be forced to use NGY. If you're using the program to control aircraft after leaving the sids you have two options. First is to use the jet routes function which will use actual airways (not necessarily the real routes) to get the aircraft from a SID exit point to the destination STAR entry point. Option 2 is that once aircraft leave the sid they are under FSX guidance to get to where they are going until they're in range to be picked up on the arriving STAR. Not quite sure what you mean by the UT2 flightplan? I wasn't aware you could make AI fly routes. Must be an UT thing.

In addition to Jim's suggestion, can it be an option to remove an AI from a specific gate in case you landed and the pre-assigned gate for the Airline you are flying is occupied?

Could always "simulate" waiting for that AI to push :P. Also could take it as a gate change. Those things do happen.

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Impatiently...I mean, patiently waiting!!  :) 

 

Sounding great Roland!


Devin Pollock
CYOW

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Not quite sure what you mean by the UT2 flightplan? I wasn't aware you could make AI fly routes. Must be an UT thing.

 

Yes that's a feature of UT2, but it's also one of it's downsides. Instead of AI approaching from all directions, they fly on the sme airways you do. Since FSX doesn't handle separation very well, you can get them in clumps following each other in close vicinity. Many times your TCAS will look like you have a flock of ducks following one another. If you happen to be flying in the opposite direction and at the same altitude (or close to it), it would be like a game of chicken with each aircraft one right after another. Looks pretty cool in practice, but I'm sure not too realistic. (At least I hope not) :lol:


Thanks

Tom

My Youtube Videos!

http://www.youtube.com/user/tf51d

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Yes that's a feature of UT2, but it's also one of it's downsides. Instead of AI approaching from all directions, they fly on the sme airways you do. Since FSX doesn't handle separation very well, you can get them in clumps following each other in close vicinity. Many times your TCAS will look like you have a flock of ducks following one another. If you happen to be flying in the opposite direction and at the same altitude (or close to it), it would be like a game of chicken with each aircraft one right after another. Looks pretty cool in practice, but I'm sure not too realistic. (At least I hope not) :lol:

For almost perfect spacing look into FS AI Separation. Desired should be 4-5. Minimum about 2-3. Area about 35nm.

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