A 777 Challenge

[scandinavian13 5,192]

For those of you familiar with my long-winded posts, this one will be no different.  Unfortunately, since I was driving, I couldn't take pictures or videos, and as you know, those are worth a thousand words...so you get more words here.

 

 

 

As I was driving in to work this morning, I saw an object in the sky that was pretty out of place.  Not only was this an object that was pretty out of place, it was a very large object that was out of place.  I glanced over at it and figured out that said large, pretty out of place object was a United 777-200.

 

Let me paint the picture for you:

KIAD 041052Z 00000KT 10SM BKN060 BKN120 BKN220 21/18 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP212 T02060183 $

 

I was driving north on Route 28 (the north-south road immediately east of IAD), having just passed the Dulles Toll/Access Road (the east-west road that drops traffic onto airport property, the Greenway - which continues to JYO - and Route 28).  The sky was still dimly lit in the dawn hours, and combined with the broken cloud level at 6000, it just seemed gloomy.  Just over the treeline, a really dark spot caught my eye in a spot that I normally don't expect aircraft.  Still, I glanced over and saw a 777 down at about 1500AGL.  It flew right over me (I may or may not have opened my sunroof to continue watching in short glances as I had to watch the road, too), turned south, and disappeared over the trees again to land on 19L.

 

What usually happens is that aircraft on the BARIN (which this plane was - it's the only reason it was in the position that it was - verified by FlightAware, in case you doubt my assessment) continue up past TRING (just about over the Potomac River), and then get turned in between TRING and MIXNN for sequencing.  This puts them onto an extended centerline out past DOMSE (used only as a reference - remember that in the land of Red, White, and Blue; Eagles; and Freedom; we like to use visuals to pack traffic into our airports - so even in today's gloom, they were on the visuals), for a nice easy approach.

 

What happened today was that the pilot called the field in sight early while still on the STAR (which, at the point the clearance was given, was the end of what would be a "downwind" for a traffic pattern), the controller, seeing no conflict with traffic cleared the pilot for the visual and the pilot took at huge shortcut.  What many people don't know is that a clearance for the visual allows the pilot to fly an approach with a path and altitude at his or her discretion (unless it's a charted visual, and only down to the generic altitude minimums the FAA sets).  For this reason, controllers will occasionally delay the clearance until the aircraft is already pointed toward the field to limit the amount of variance in the potential flight path.  In this case, though, it was 0620, so it was pretty dead and there was no need to delay the clearance.

 

This highlights a few concepts that I really wanted to share with the sim crowd:

1. Flights do not always use the autopilot and autoland.
2. Flights do not always follow the magenta line, fully, and VECTORS portions are okay to leave in there.
3. Pilots do not always wait for ATC to prompt them to look for, or call the field.
4. Differing traffic levels allow for different amounts of discretion.
5. Even on broken and overcast days, the ILS isn't used unless the broken or overcast is low (6000' isn't low).

Now, for the challenge:

Set yourself up on a flight that comes up the BARIN (essentially anywhere from the south).  Descend on the STAR, which will get you down to 4000.  When you're on an early downwind (over Route 50, or just after STAYO, for those unfamiliar with the roads here), call the field in sight, get a clearance for the visual, descend to about 2000 by the Dulles Toll/Access Road, and then begin a turn inbound such that you intercept the centerline at about 1.2nm out.  For reference, the plane looked to be fully configured when it was flying what would be its "base" leg.  From there, land the plane (without automation) in pro form, remembering that it's still 0620 and some people are still dead asleep on the overnight flight.

 

For those of you with UTX (and therefore accurate roads), the plane turned inbound just about half way between the Dulles Toll Road and Route 7 (the road that parallels the Potomac River, SE-NW), just inside Lindsay Volkswagen if you want to get really specific (though you're not gonna see that in the sim).

 

Hopefully some of you got some extra information out of the slightly out-of-the-norm situation I saw this morning.  Similarly, I hope that the challenge gives some of you something new to try.  If you do it, record it or snap some screenshots.

[MarkW 1,492]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up Kyle.  I will give it a try.

[RudiJG1 172]

And Kyle, the runway we're aiming for is 19L only, right? (meaning - no other 19 runway is an option...we have to make that inbound turn to land on 19L).

[max2770 75]

Yep, real flying is way different than some would think.  I think I autolanded the thing once, foggy night CATIII where I saw the lights at 60AGL. The only thing is, when you say that the ILS isn't used unless[...], that all depends on the airline's SOP.  Many require crews to either capture and disconnect the AP at x altutude or require them to tune it before disconnecting.  Planes are rarely autolanded though, indeed.

 

I'll probably give this a shot later on.  Good read!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up Kyle.  I will give it a try.

 

Welcome!  Good luck!

 

 

And Kyle, the runway we're aiming for is 19L only, right? (meaning - no other 19 runway is an option...we have to make that inbound turn to land on 19L).

 

The flight this morning went for 19L, and I think 19L would offer the most challenge.  Then again, 19C and 19R would be really tough as well, given that they're farther north and would require a very late and low turn to final...

 

In doing the challenge, though, I'd keep it to 19L.

 

 

 

Yep, real flying is way different than some would think.  I think I autolanded the thing once, foggy night CATIII where I saw the lights at 60AGL. The only thing is, when you say that the ILS isn't used unless[...], that all depends on the airline's SOP.  Many require crews to either capture and disconnect the AP at x altutude or require them to tune it before disconnecting.  Planes are rarely autolanded though, indeed.

 

I'll probably give this a shot later on.  Good read!

 

Just to clarify, I was referring to the controller side of life at that point.  I should've said the "ILS isn't assigned."  What the crew chooses to do to guide themselves down to the runway is their own prerogative, based on the approved OpSpec for the airline.

 

Thanks!  I'm interested to see how well I can pull it off when I get home, myself.

[jcomm 5,938]

It's been a loooong time since I last had the 777 installed, and fsx as a matter of fact.

 

Long before the latest patch which has contributed to bring the all trimming stuff closer to real, but I do recall that I only flew visual approaches, manual after 1000', including manual thrust, and, it was a delight. 

 

The flight dynamics of the PMDG 777 are probably very close to rel, because the many pilot descriptions I read in the Internet agree precisely with that harmony and simplicity of control.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Anyone try this out?  I wanted to last night, but never got around to it.

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

What many people don't know is that a clearance for the visual allows the pilot to fly an approach with a path and altitude at his or her discretion

 

I miss being around a busy terminal watching the 'birds.' Here in Corpus Christi, the sky is occupied with orange tiped white Navy King Air's flirting about between the various auxilary airfields carrying students on their way. Hum, back on track:  As a Part 91 operator, I have often used the 'contact' approach instead of waiting for approach or tower to issue the visual. I've never been refused, but I've never asked for it unless I know the local area (yes, I know where those radio towers are at Cedar Hill So of DFW) and I am comfortable with conditions between me and the airport (call it scud runnning). I think ATC is actually glad to let me find my way to reduce their workload slightly.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I think ATC is actually glad to let me find my way to reduce their workload slightly.

 

I have a feeling that you're right.  I'm not a real world controller (yet???), but on VATSIM, it's nice to load shed by dumping people on the visual, or preceding traffic.

[MarkW 1,492]

OK I tried it....and I filmed it, will upload shortly.  Went ok, I think I turned a bit early on final, if I would have extended my base leg a bit I think it would have been much better.  I looked at Google Maps to get my bearings and I do have ORBX Global and Vector so I could make out the roads (I think).  I also set up the sim for 6:20am and used ASN historical weather for yesterday morning.  

 

 

Uploading, will post a link later on tonight - around 9pm EST.

[MarkW 1,492]

Here is the video I made for this challenge.  A few notes...

 

1) I started with the default engines running panel state for the 777.

2) ZFW was 420,000 lbs 

3) Fuel was around 25000 lbs.

4) I just setup a route from KIAD to KIAD added one waypoint in the route which was the Brook VOR.  Then I added the arrival.

 

....so the panel may not be set up perfectly, I did not use the checklists before takeoff, etc.  

 

 

[afraj 0]

Awesome, Kyle I live in the area as well and I don't see this approach as much. Those planes flying over 28 are a distraction for sure

[theflyingdutchmen 3]

This was a great read, its small things like getting a visual cleared early that can change a routine flight into a great one even when its about to end. I tend to do this into Toronto with the 737 ngx. I used to see the arrivals turn base fairly early on the Verko STAR into 24 L/R (btw beauty approach as you fly right past Downtown Toronto at around 4000ft)  and i try to replicate that in the sim. Loads of fun to be had. 

 

Great observation Kyle, and a great challenge. Ill give this a shot! 

 

Thanks for sharing! 

[HendrixSRV 5]

Very interesting. I live in Germantown MD just close enough to see planes approaching the airport and one morning, around that time too, a 777 flew above my house at super low altitude. Maybe, as you said, 1500 feet. I thought it was very weird because I usually know where the planes approach the airport and seeing a 777 just above my house at a crazy low height made me wonder what was going on. 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Here is the video I made for this challenge.  A few notes...

 

Mark!  Awesome!  Really enjoyed watching that!  I have to say, I'm pretty impressed at how you were able to pick out the roads without ever having been here.  Google maps is a great tool, but even my friends who live here can have trouble figuring everything out in the air, so great job there!  You picked out the Toll Road perfectly.  Not sure about 50, because it was pretty far off where you were looking for it, but if you want to go back and look in the video, it's under your mouse cursor at about the 6:20 mark.  You had the general area correct, though!

 

The turn in was a little early, but you pulled it off in the end.  Nice!

 

Minor things, just in case you'd enjoy feedback and trying again (recorded, or on your own):

• Dulles Approach got incorporated into a facility called Potomac Consolidated TRACON in late 2003...so, "Potomac Approach."  Why?  Because why make things straightforward and easy?    In all actuality, the facility coordinates traffic into IAD, DCA and BWI as one entity instead of three, so it makes sense (RIC and CHO are also part of that, but the main three are the big deal, coordination-wise).
• You're right in that the controller would assign the visual, but they probably wouldn't prompt you to call the field until they'd brought you around to the north side.  This is why I mentioned the "you don't have to wait for them - beat them to the punch," which is why this crew likely got such an awesome shortcut.

 

 

Awesome, Kyle I live in the area as well and I don't see this approach as much. Those planes flying over 28 are a distraction for sure

 

Definitely!  I have to catch myself and remember to pay attention to the road from time to time.

 

 

 

Great observation Kyle, and a great challenge. Ill give this a shot! 

 

Thanks!  Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

 

 

I thought it was very weird because I usually know where the planes approach the airport and seeing a 777 just above my house at a crazy low height made me wonder what was going on. 

 

Gotta love late night and early morning ops!