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Capt Speirs

GSX Push Back Tug vs PMDG 777 Nose Wheel

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Apparently there still is no fix for the PMDG 777 Nose Wheel steering and GSX Push Back Tug fighting each other? Getting a little tired of the rudder pedals and tiller violently moving about in the cockpit. Please tell me there is a fix without some ridiculous work around. 

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First, you would get a much better chance to get support, by posting in the FSDT forum.

 

In any case, nobody has ever reported this before.

 

I tried a Pushback with the 777 now and, while it's true you see the tiller handle moving in the VC, it's just visual thing because the animation in the VC model is tied to the nosewheel position, but the actual pushback procedure is not affected in any way, they are not "fighting" (from a simulation point of view), because while GSX is pushing, the airplane flight model is frozen, what you are seeing it's just the animation of the handle.

 

The "solution" would be not controlling the nose wheel while pushing, and that would result in the far worse and unrealistic visual effect of having a fixed nose wheel when looking from the outside.

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AES is the fix :)

If you have a ton of money for "credits" and can wait for your airport to be done.... Otherwise, no.

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Haven't seen this myself, the only thing I can think of that may cause this is if you have the autorudder option selected in your FSX realism settings.

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AES is the fix :)

 

Already have AES for Aerosoft Mega Airport London Xtended, doesn't help. I use GSX for Tugs.

 

First, you would get a much better chance to get support, by posting in the FSDT forum.

 

In any case, nobody has ever reported this before.

 

I tried a Pushback with the 777 now and, while it's true you see the tiller handle moving in the VC, it's just visual thing because the animation in the VC model is tied to the nosewheel position, but the actual pushback procedure is not affected in any way, they are not "fighting" (from a simulation point of view), because while GSX is pushing, the airplane flight model is frozen, what you are seeing it's just the animation of the handle.

 

The "solution" would be not controlling the nose wheel while pushing, and that would result in the far worse and unrealistic visual effect of having a fixed nose wheel when looking from the outside.

 

FSDT has no fix.

 

"Nobody has ever reported this before" http://forum.avsim.net/topic/423458-gsx-and-the-777/

 

Unrealistic is the nose wheel jerking around like it is on crack along with the tiller and rudder pedals and rudder.

 

If you have a ton of money for "credits" and can wait for your airport to be done.... Otherwise, no.

 

Already have AES for Aerosoft Mega Airport London Xtended, doesn't help. I use GSX for Tugs.

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"Nobody has ever reported this before" http://forum.avsim.net/topic/423458-gsx-and-the-777/

That thread just proved my point, that any possible "problem" (even if it's NOT a GSX problem, like in this case), should always discussed on the developers forum, because you can't expect they would be able to monitor each and every forum out there.

 

In any case, that thread also provided a solution, and explained why the problem is NOT GSX, and can ONLY be fixed by PMDG.

 

The issue is:

 

- If you pushback without Hydraulics power, the front wheel will NOT "jerk off", you will only see the tiller handle moving in the VC. But as soon as you either turn on the APU or one engine, you could also have hydraulics back on, and so the two systems (the PMDG hydraulics and GSX Pushback) will start fighting into each other.

 

- In real life, the bypass pin will allow to turn the front wheel with an external force when hydraulics are on, but there's no such thing as a bypass pin simulation as a standard FSX feature.

 

HOWEVER, GSX being the flexible program it is, ALLOWS 3rd party developers to CHECK if GSX is pushing, because it has a public variable named L:FSDT_VAR_Frozen which is being set to 1 the moment GSX starts to push, and to 0 when it stops. It was originally added to support Majestic Q400 developers, so they could turn off their internal flight model while GSX was pushing, but it could be used in the same way by PMDG, so they could stop controlling the front wheel animation even with hydraulics on when that variable is 1, so they could effectively obtain a proper bypass pin simulation in combination with GSX.

 

I'm sure that PMDG, being the detailed-oriented developer we all know, won't miss this chance to improve their user experience...

 

EDIT:

I've sent an email to PMDG with this proposal, hopefully they'll add it as a new feature to the 777

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should always discussed on the developers forum, because you can't expect they would be able to monitor each and every forum out there.

 

cant agree with you more on this  cant  see why users keep posting  their issues in here and expect  the devs of other  addons like yourself  and rexe to check every forum  for issues  that relate  to their product. 

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How  can he fix it  if you don't post it  in the right forum being this http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?board=50.0

 

 

That thread just proved my point, that any possible "problem" (even if it's NOT a GSX problem, like in this case), should always discussed on the developers forum, because you can't expect they would be able to monitor each and every forum out there.

 

In any case, that thread also provided a solution, and explained why the problem is NOT GSX, and can ONLY be fixed by PMDG.

 

The issue is:

 

- If you pushback without Hydraulics power, the front wheel will NOT "jerk off", you will only see the tiller handle moving in the VC. But as soon as you either turn on the APU or one engine, you could also have hydraulics back on, and so the two systems (the PMDG hydraulics and GSX Pushback) will start fighting into each other.

 

- In real life, the bypass pin will allow to turn the front wheel with an external force when hydraulics are on, but there's no such thing as a bypass pin simulation as a standard FSX feature.

 

HOWEVER, GSX being the flexible program it is, ALLOWS 3rd party developers to CHECK if GSX is pushing, because it has a public variable named L:FSDT_VAR_Frozen which is being set to 1 the moment GSX starts to push, and to 0 when it stops. It was originally added to support Majestic Q400 developers, so they could turn off their internal flight model while GSX was pushing, but it could be used in the same way by PMDG, so they could stop controlling the front wheel animation even with hydraulics on when that variable is 1, so they could effectively obtain a proper bypass pin simulation in combination with GSX.

 

I'm sure that PMDG, being the detailed-oriented developer we all know, won't miss this chance to improve their user experience...

 

EDIT:

I've sent an email to PMDG with this proposal, hopefully they'll add it as a new feature to the 777

 

 

cant agree with you more on this  cant  see why users keep posting  their issues in here and expect  the devs of other  addons like yourself  and rexe to check every forum  for issues  that relate  to their product. 

 

Wow you guys, it has been brought up in FSDT forum and they have no fix, just some unacceptable work around. 

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In any case, nobody has ever reported this before.

 

it has been brought up in FSDT forum and they have no fix, just some unacceptable work around.

 

Seems that he has missed your reference  that it has been posted  in the gsx  section

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Wow you guys, it has been brought up in FSDT forum and they have no fix, just some unacceptable work around.

Since you quoted my entire reply, have you read what it said ? There's NOTHING to "fix" from our side, and I don't know what do you mean with "unacceptable work around".

 

I'll explain it again:

 

1) The issue happens because the PMDG 777, opposite to what usually any other default airplane does, has an hydraulic system that, if active, PREVENTS the wheel to be moved by an external force.

 

2) On the REAL airplane, the BYPASS PIN is inserted in the front gear before pushback starts, in order to allow the front gear to rotate even when there's hydraulic power, but FSX doesn't support this system, nor PMDG does it.

 

3) GSX already ALLOWS any 3rd party developer to check if it's pushing, so they could enable/disable anything that might be needed to be enabled/disabled in their own internal simulation. In this case, by checking that variable, PMDG COULD effectively simulate a real bypass pin, so they could stop acting on the front wheel even when hydraulics power is available, and of course is something only THEY could do.

 

This means, there's nothing else that GSX can do, the only ones that can fix this is PMDG, and as I've said already, I contacted them explaining the issue because, as has been said several times already, you just can't expect developers would monitoring each and every forum out there, so they probably would never saw this thread, unless someone would point it out.

 

So, hopefully, if they agree to my proposal to USE that GSX feature which has been available for a while, and has been explained here, they could add this improvement to the 777, so its own internal hydraulic simulation could behave like the real thing, and being bypassed when the GSX pushback starts, using this variable like a virtual bypass pin.

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This problem WAS reported on this forum sometime last year and the fix was to not engage the hydraulics till after the pushback.  However, you cannot set the takeoff trim till after the push back this way.

 

Gnacino

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This problem WAS reported on this forum sometime last year and the fix was to not engage the hydraulics till after the pushback.  However, you cannot set the takeoff trim till after the push back this way.

 

Gnacino

 

That is unacceptable and I saw that. If there is no fix, then tell me. Don't feed me an inferior work around. I don't mean this on a personal level, I mean it on a general level. I have hundreds invested in the PMDG 777 alone, I expect my tiller and pedals not to flop about.

 

Since you quoted my entire reply, have you read what it said ? There's NOTHING to "fix" from our side, and I don't know what do you mean with "unacceptable work around".

 

 

You said in your forum that it was a visual thing and push back works fine. Uhh, yeah, why did I pay so much for a visually pleasing aircraft only to have my tiller and rudder pedals flop around during push back. No where did I say it was anyone's fault, BTW, I am looking for a fix not a fall guy. As far as the "Work Around" I mistaking thought it was in your forum, it is actually in this forum, my apologies.

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You said in your forum that it was a visual thing and push back works fine. Uhh, yeah, why did I pay so much for a visually pleasing aircraft only to have my tiller and rudder pedals flop around during push back. No where did I say it was anyone's fault, BTW, I am looking for a fix not a fall guy. As far as the "Work Around" I mistaking thought it was in your forum, it is actually in this forum, my apologies.

 

As I stated above, I never noticed the issue with the 777, but then, I never really looked for it. (I'm usually not looking at the Tillers during pushback.) I tried it and yes I do see it with the T7. I then tried it with the NGX, which also models hydraulics, and the tillers/rudder pedals were smooth during the push back turns. So I think the problem is more on the PMDG side then FSDT in this case. Looks like they modeled the bypass pin as Virtuali stated with the NGX, but not the T7, else we should see the same issue with the NGX!

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That is unacceptable and I saw that. If there is no fix, then tell me. Don't feed me an inferior work around. I don't mean this on a personal level, I mean it on a general level. I have hundreds invested in the PMDG 777 alone, I expect my tiller and pedals not to flop about.

Then you should ask to PMDG to add the recognition of the GSX pushback, in order to have the airplane behaving as it had a bypass pin inserted by the ground crew, which is what would happen in real life.

 

You said in your forum that it was a visual thing and push back works fine.

That's a fact: the actual Pushback procedure is not affected in any way.

 

Uhh, yeah, why did I pay so much for a visually pleasing aircraft only to have my tiller and rudder pedals flop around during push back. No where did I say it was anyone's fault, BTW, I am looking for a fix not a fall guy.

As I've said, GSX ALREADY provides a way for airplane developers to know when it's pushing, but then it's up to the airplane developers to use that information.

 

As I've said, twice, I already asked PMDG about this, now it would be best if you, as a PMDG customer, would also voice your opinion to them, because their are the only one that can provide a proper solution, that is, simulating the effect of the bypass pin.

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Then you should ask to PMDG to add the recognition of the GSX pushback, in order to have the airplane behaving as it had a bypass pin inserted by the ground crew, which is what would happen in real life.

 

 

That's a fact: the actual Pushback procedure is not affected in any way.

 

 

As I've said, GSX ALREADY provides a way for airplane developers to know when it's pushing, but then it's up to the airplane developers to use that information.

 

As I've said, twice, I already asked PMDG about this, now it would be best if you, as a PMDG customer, would also voice your opinion to them, because their are the only one that can provide a proper solution, that is, simulating the effect of the bypass pin.

 

I will take your advice and contact PMDG, now that it is likely their issue, and hopefully they take it serious. I noticed the rudder pedals and tiller because I use TrackIR and it caught my attention, now it bugs me.

 

Thanks for patience and input, love all your products.

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