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patrico

Any ideas anyone ?

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on why after a transatlantic flight from EGLL to KJFK I am failing to pick up  the G/S only the LOC ON MY T7.  All the flight, up until that landing is routine. I am landing at 4L and am using the Parch 1 star from my last waypoint Ebony at TOD. I have my altitude set at 2500 all the way for the decent, I am not  flying with ATC to give me vectors only the FMC.

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What is the scenery you have at JFK?  Maybe its missing the G/S ?

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on why after a transatlantic flight from EGLL to KJFK I am failing to pick up  the G/S only the LOC ON MY T7. 

 

Check the scenery to ensure it also includes an ILS and not just a LOC. I'm pretty sure JFK has had an ILS there for quite some time, but it might not have. JYO had a LOC only when FSX was developed, so I had to manually enable the GS myself (using ADE).

 

You can always just pop open the map (Alt > World > Map) when in the sim and click on the green LOC icon. It will say LOC or ILS in the pop up window I think.

 

 

What is the scenery you have at JFK?  Maybe its missing the G/S ?

 

Beat me to it! Thought the same thing.

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thanks Guys,

 

I did look at the Map and it had the exact same frequency as displayed on my PFD. I am using FS Dreamteam v.1 JFK. It has to be my fault as I  must not  be shooting an ILS currently so I guess its back to  the drawing board and watch Kyle's videos again 

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and it had the exact same frequency as displayed on my PFD

 

It's not the freq that matters - it's the GS (which is actually a different frequency, but the nav radios in all aircraft manage that part for you). The only thing a pilot ever tunes is actually the LOC. An ILS is simply a LOC that has a GS shack next to it. The important part for this situation is the map showing ILS or LOC - not the frequency.

 

The frequency for the JYO ILS is the same frequency as when it was a LOC-only approach.

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I am using FS Dreamteam v.1 JFK. It has to be my fault as I must not be shooting an ILS

Several years ago I had intermittent  problems with 4L at KJFK (FSDT) using the PMDG MD-11. The aircraft would crash to runway at 50-100 feet, I quit using the runway. Never did find a problem. Same problem at 28L KSFO and 33L KBOS About a year ago I started using them again with no problems. Go figure. FSX?

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I forgot the details ......but there was something about KJFK using the same ILS frequency for both rwy directions......and I think this was not correctly modelled in default FSX KJFK.

 

So if for example ILS04R and ILS22L use the same frequency (I have not checked, so dont beat me up for it) then you can only do an ILS in one direction in FSX

 

And as far as I remember, after I downloaded a free AFCAD for KJFK from the AVSIM library the problem was resolved.

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I have FSDT JFK Ver 2 (released April 2013) and it does include an ILS for RWY 04L (110.9). Perhaps there is something different in FSDT JFK Ver 1.

 

Interesting how the ILS frequencies for 04L/22R and 04R/22L are assigned at JFK:

04L (110.9) / 22R (109.5)

04R (109.5) / 22L (110.9)

 

There are real Terminal Procedure ILS or LOC RWY plates for 04L, 04R, and 22L. There is only an ILS for 22R.

 

It is my understanding that most of the time 04L/22R are used for take offs and 04R/22L for landings.

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It is my understanding that most of the time 04L/22R are used for take offs and 04R/22L for landings.

 

In the States, the general rule of thumb is that the parallel closer to the terminal is for departures, with the one farther from it for arrivals (in the case the terminal isn't between them, so PHL, EWR. JFKs 04/22s, LAX, ATL, etc).

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In the States, the general rule of thumb is that the parallel closer to the terminal is for departures, with the one farther from it for arrivals (in the case the terminal isn't between them, so PHL, EWR. JFKs 04/22s, LAX, ATL, etc).

Would this apply to IADs 1C/19C and 1L/19R?

Thanks Kyle.

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I've only been into KIAD a few times so Kyle has the definitive answer; however, it is also true the longer runway is for departure and shorter for landings. My guess for KIAD is 1L/19R is landing and either of the others are used depending on direction for departures. Notice they are same length and lateral distance but longitudal distance gives preference to landing 19C or 1R and departing 1C or 19L depending on direction of traffic flow.

 

It really gets complicated at KDEN where there are four traffic flow patterns and a bizzillion acres of runway to choose from.

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Would this apply to IADs 1C/19C and 1L/19R?

 

IAD is actually very weird, but it all starts to make sense when it's explained. IAD is one of the reasons I added the "in the case the terminal isn't between them." So, sure, the terminal isn't between the center and west runways, but it's between the east and center. I was getting at "paired" runways where they're relatively close and on one side like those I mentioned above (while ATL and LAX has a terminal in between the runways, if you break it down, you'll see that it's just two pairs of paired runways...plus an extra one they slapped on down at ATL).

 

The IAD Runway Rundown (it's best to have the CAPITAL SID open when looking at this - "north" is everything above the dashed line, "south" is everything below it):

 

Wind From the North (North Ops):

North Fixes:

Departures come off of the 1s. Usually, 1C is used as a primary runway since where you'd taxi onto it is closest to most of the gates. 1R is used for extra volume, and gates over on the east side of the terminals. 1L is used if you've [ticked] off a controller.

 

South Fixes:

Runway 30 is used unless there is a strong wind from the east-north-east (which would result in a stiff tailwind).

 

Wind From the South, or Calm (South Ops):

South Fixes:

Departures come off of the 19s. Usually, 19L is used as a primary runway since where you'd taxi onto it is closest to most of the gates. 19C is used for extra volume (Landmark aviation and cargo, as well). 19R is used if you've really really [ticked] off a controller.

 

North Fixes:

Runway 30 is used unless there is a strong wind from the east-south-east (which would result in a stiff tailwind).

 

(Just consider Runway 30 as the runway that serves the fixes in the opposite direction from either the 1s or 19s being used).

 

 

 

As for landing:

North Ops:

1R and 1C are primary. 1L if it's really busy or they don't like you.

 

South Ops:

19C and 19L are primary. 19R if it's really busy of they don't like you (or, in my experience - if you're a slow plane).

 

 

 

If you think any of that is bad, you should have a look at BWI...

 

 

 


It really gets complicated at KDEN where there are four traffic flow patterns and a bizzillion acres of runway to choose from.

 

You got that right, though they do somewhat follow that "near runway dep, far runway arr" model for the runways that are paired. Not my area of expertise, though.

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Kyle, Your explanation and description is most informative. And looking at the Capital SID really does help. I suspected IAD did not fit the "general rule" you described earlier for "paired runways" given where the terminal is relative to the runways. Thanks again.

 

Regards

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Thanks to everyone for your interesting input but I am afraid that I have not found the solution yet. I suspect it has  to be me, so I will go back and try to find out why by watching more of Kyles very informative channel

 

FYI Kyle by way of explanation, on watching your channel I can see that you frown on people using the Autopilot  a lot and especially on landing.

 

Due to 2 reasons I find its the only way I can successfully (or part there off ) fly and enjoy it

1) I am 65 years old, now I am sure many 65 year  old + can manually fly this aircraft, but my second reason is the main one

2) I have no dexterity and in a wheelchair after a car crash in Houston in 1992, sure, I would love to be able to fly manually without the aid of the FMC but I consider myself lucky that I can even enjoy this addiction which masquerades as a hobby at all.

That and my speech impairment  is the reason, why I need a button controlled ATC. Any ideas anyone? I have tried RADAR CONTACT

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Kyle, Your explanation and description is most informative. And looking at the Capital SID really does help. I suspected IAD did not fit the "general rule" you described earlier for "paired runways" given where the terminal is relative to the runways. Thanks again.

 

It was a good question. Love seeing questions like that. And now you can go through IAD and know what you're doing (or if on IVAO/VATSIM, anticipate the ATC instructions a little better). You can even use that information to help you get out of other fields, too.

 

 

 


FYI Kyle by way of explanation, on watching your channel I can see that you frown on people using the Autopilot  a lot and especially on landing.

 

I do frown on it, but that's because it's limiting people to certain airports, and - at least to me - shows a lack of incentive to learn. Handflying is an indispensable skill, and landing yourself is actually rather rewarding. That said, I won't criticize anyone who physically can't. I work with a guy who has a fused wrist, so I know how difficult even simple things can be.

 

Thanks for watching.

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just seen this is my 100th post

 

Congrats on your milestone  :wink:

 

Just don't waste too much time here like me...haha.

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Hi, Patrico,

 

 

 

I don't see how you could be doing anything wrong in your flying that would cause you to get localizer but not glideslope showing, unless you have failures activated and the glideslope receiver or GS indicator has failed. Once you have tuned the localizer you also have tuned the GS, if there is one. There certainly is one at JFK 4L and I am fairly sure there has been for a very long time.

 

Most likely you have a scenery issue somewhere.

 

Mike

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Thanks Mike I have diligently re-watched Kyle's tutorial 1 video and one of Frugal''s early video's on the 777  but I could not find , that I was doing anything wrong except maybe having the landing altitude set to high at 2500 to intercept  the G/S will try again tomorrow

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Thanks Mike I have diligently re-watched Kyle's tutorial 1 video and one of Frugal''s early video's on the 777 but I could not find , that I was doing anything wrong except maybe having the landing altitude set to high at 2500 to intercept the G/S will try again tomorrow

 

That might be the problem, although you should still see the GS dot both on the ND if set to approach mode and on the PFD to the right.  If you were at 2500 very close to the runway you might not see the GS.  On a normal GS if you are at 1500 feet five miles out, 3000 feet ten miles out, you should be very close to the GS descent path.  In FSX, most GSs can be detected about twenty miles out.  So if you were at, say, 5,000 ft twenty miles out (below the GS), you should be able to intercept it OK if you are on the localizer (the PMDG 777 has an option to allow descent on the GS before you are lined up on the localizer, but it is usually set to "no".  It can be dangerous if set to "yes.")

 

Mike

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still cannot get it right Mike, this time I was bellow the g/s grrrr so frustrated oh well  just keep  tryiing

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still cannot get it right Mike, this time I was bellow the g/s grrrr so frustrated oh well just keep tryiing

 

Hi, Patrico,

 

Sorry for your frustration!  Are you just not seeing the GS indicator at all (either on the PFD or ND in approach mode), or are you seeing it but the aircraft is not locking onto the GS?

 

Mike

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Just to confirm, whatever problem you are having, it's not the scenery. See the screenshot, with ILS 4L tuned and GS showing up just fine with the default A321:

 

2014-11-18_9-26-33-458.jpg

 

Is the PMDG GS indicator using data from the scenery, or from its internal (Navigraph?) database ? Perhaps there's a problem with that. See a thread on our forum of an user that had a problem with ILS not working (but just PMDG), which was caused by Navigraph:

 

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=8308.20

 

Another thread here, indicating a problem caused by FSX backcourse selection:

 

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6822.0

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thanks Umberto,
I do not think for one minute the the fsdreamteam scenery was bad. I think  the problem might lie with me. Very intereting thread on Navigraph who I use.

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Just to confirm, whatever problem you are having, it's not the scenery. See the screenshot, with ILS 4L tuned and GS showing up just fine with the default A321:2014-11-18_9-26-33-458.jpgIs the PMDG GS indicator using data from the scenery, or from its internal (Navigraph?) database ? Perhaps there's a problem with that. See a thread on our forum of an user that had a problem with ILS not working (but just PMDG), which was caused by Navigraph:http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=8308.20Another thread here, indicating a problem caused by FSX backcourse selection:http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6822.0

I do not get that at all.

 

As far as I know, the FMC of in this case the PMDG777 only tells the 777 which facility to use for the approach.

But the facility itself is allways the FSX facility, no?

 

So if I let the FMC tune ILS/DME then the Localizer, Glideslope and DME as programmed into FSX are used/received (this is either the default FSX stuff or from an updated afcad file if you installed a scenery package).

 

There is no such thing as ILS without DME if the afcad has ILS with DME specified.

You dont tune DME manually, it is colocated with the Localizer (usually, there are exceptions) and it is automatically received.

 

The same with Glideslope. It is automatically received (if the afcad files specifies a colocated Glideslope for the Loc) when you tune the Localizer frequency.

I dont see how selecting ILS or ILS/DME in the FMC would make a difference (I dont even understand why there would be more options than just ILS/DME) unless you have duplicated Afcad files.......I have read of duplicate AI traffic Afcad files causing problems....

Then I guess one Afcad file ILS tunes a localizer that does not have a colocated DME (or no colocated Glideslope) and the other Afcad "ILS/DME does have all three facilities specified (loc, gs, dme) and that would be the one that works correctly then.

But then it is not a navdatabase problem but a duplicate Afcad problem.

Again, correct me if I am wrong.....I do not know if duplicate Afcad files can be simultanuously active?!

 

As far as I know, the only way to do a localizer approach where the PFD does not display the Glideslope is by failing the Glideslope in FSX or from the PMDG options.

thanks Umberto,

I do not think for one minute the the fsdreamteam scenery was bad. I think  the problem might lie with me. Very intereting thread on Navigraph who I use.

Patrico, do you only have the problem in NY or everywhere?

 

And earlier you said you selected a landing altitude of 2500ft.

What do you mean with that?

There is no such thing as a landing altitude that you have to set.

You mean the intermediate approach altitude (also called glideslope intercept altitude)?

still cannot get it right Mike, this time I was bellow the g/s grrrr so frustrated oh well  just keep  tryiing

You are suposed to be below the glideslope before intercepting it!

That is a good thing!

 

Rereading your post I understand you did mean the intermediate approach altitude with those 2500ft.

 

2500ft is fine.

You can use 3000ft ir 4000ft as well....it does not matter.

All that matters is that you fly far enough away then that you are still below the transmitted Glideslope beam.

 

If you would program the FMC to be real real low at a point long before intercepting the localizer (like ROBER in 2500ft) then there is no way you are too high for glideslope intercept. Try that, ROBER.......250kt/2500ft, and use Vnav and Lnav untill ROBER. Then from ROBER use Heading Select mode to get on the localizer. Press the APP switch before intercepting the localizer and see what happens.

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