Please continue your Xbox discussion here.

My 2 cents - MS CANNOT convince simmers to migrate to a different platform. If they do release it for Xbox platform only, X-Plane (or maybe Fly! resurrected) and others will kick in and hijack the simming community. Soon with a larger user/developer base who knows, these products may beat MSFS in no time at all. It may even give open source flight simming a huge boost. No way MS will let this happen.Something similar happened with EA Sport F1 series. Sony hijacked F1 for their PS2 platform. The hadcore F1 fans are still sticking with the 2002 version and rely on independent developers for freeware track, car and dynamics updates. There's no competition here because the F1 logo is licensed to Sony exclusively wrt gaming. MS won't have this advantage. They can't prevent competition.

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!Not many companies want to go head to head with a high-investment all-world civil flight sim shell for PC. But if X box gets a workable console flight sim with peripheral support, whether a PC version is released or not, other consoles might want sims of their own. They might also alter future consoles as a way to get increased functionality. Like software that integrates and allows the console to serve as an external graphics enhancer for any program on a PC, flight sim or others. Software is already available that lets various platforms like cellphones and cameras share info via the PC. Some of the new flight sim offerings may well and truly stink, but there is potential for more choices and overall improvement in flight sims, if only because of real competition between shells, or the percieved threat that there might be.Best Regards, Donny:-wave

I for one cannot see MS dropping the PC version. It would be ridiculous IMO.Having said that, the XBox version (if there really is going to be one) would be great. Imagine it taking advantage of all that hardware.If it seems on the surface that there will only be an Xbox version for now, that

AWESOME!I for one, would applaude an X-Box Version. As long as it supports USB (Yoke and Pedals) and is compatible with FS 2004 A/C and hopefully third party add-ons. If Microsoft can gaurantee a minimum of 40 FPS, REGARDLESS of ATC /AI/ Weather / Cloud and Scenary Density, etc, etc and it supports my 52" Hi Definition TV for output, COUNT ME IN!Imagine, not having to deal with sliders and / or WAISTING time tweaking the software and the OS. If you really think about it, most of us spend the cost of X-BOX and more upgrading hard drives, memory, motherboards/CPUs, video Cards, etc etc...This is the BEST direction for FS 2006 to go as long as the requirements I mentioned in the first paragraph are met. We will all be better off.Hat's off to FS Development Team if they pull this off sucessfully! Barry

Where did this whole FS10 for Xbox thing start, did someone see it in a tentative game list on the Xbox site, or what? If we can figure out if this is a rumor or not would be helpful to those who are paranoid about MSs intentions.Jeff

Jeff,The X-Box 360 is a reality. Whether Microsoft releases FS10 on that platform, I haven't seen any confirmation.Maybe someone will post the official news release from Microsoft.Barry

The same things are happening with American football, nascar, baseball, basketball. EA secured the rights to Nascar, NFL, and can only make those games.It shouldn't surprise anyone if flight sim is not released for the PC, it's all about the money, and there just isn't a big enough market for PC games until fast computers are much much MUCH cheaper.

I didn't respond in the other thread--really couldn't wade through that many posts and Jeroen voiced most of my thoughts on the subject anyway.I think an Xbox sim product must happen if Microsoft wants to get a foothold into a broader market--casual PC users are starting to move away from PC's in place of an "all-in-one" entertainment/infotainment resource--planted in front of their HDTV's with surround sound. I don't think Microsoft will drop their foothold in the PC market unless it becomes too expensive to code for that market. What I do believe is we'll see a return of what we saw with FS2000 and FS2002--a "Standard" and "Pro" version. But the "Standard" version may take a position on Xbox, with the "Pro" version remaining under the PC domain.An XBox version could only fire the hunger and steer casual first timers into "Pro" PC enthusiasts. And, an Xbox version would give us hard core types a way to escape after watching "Survivor". I can really only guess.Would it be hard to manage two platforms? A lot of the code written today is already written to work on a variety of platforms. If Microsoft designed Xbox right, there likely isn't too much a difference between the high level methods a certain task is done. The nuts and bolts may be different, but programs are written today to be portable.The catch in all of this? Microsoft is a public company. Sometimes actions aren't very rational--a tier of staff, or one side of a building, may be laid off to have some substance to show shareholders. Most shareholders couldn't care in the least what product gets axed--they only care about the numbers and ROI. I'd bet your average Microsoft shareholder doesn't know FS2004 from MS Project. But they know whether costs were reduced and profit increased. Rest assured MSFS is one of Microsoft's oldest and most famous projects. It probably is safe and will probably flourish if it's offered on two platforms.-John

If you check out the MS Xbox360 PR stream, they want to get beyond the 19-34 male demo. The whole xbox-live and xbox store seem ideal for selling into the FS community. Apparently there was no Xbox360 running at E3. The demos were on Mac G5s so no hands on idea of what the Xbox will do.Since MS wants to shift to XNA for game development, and XNA will have cross-platform capability, it shouldn't be either/or for Xbox or PC, but the Xbox seems more important to MS, certainly the games division so it is hard to believe they WOULDN'T do an FS or CFS for Xbox, with VATSIM on Xbox-live.The problem for PC simmers, is the question of MS continuing to develop for DX9 or waiting for DX10/WGE (or whatever they are now calling it) in Longhorn.scott s..

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I'm not sure where the rumor of an X-Box version or X-Box only MSFS came from so I'll bite...I'll put money where my mouth is and bet ANYONE on this forum good US greenbacks that a FS release for X-Box will be the biggest flop since Kevin Costner starred in Waterworld. The X-Box crowd (game consoles in general) is vastly different than the PC crowd. There is no 'action' in MSFS. There are no missles, villans, dungeons, bosses to defeat at the end of each level, BFGs, powerups, health points, fragging, or even basic strategy. Microsoft would do far better to port Combat Flight Simulator over to X-Box but not MSFS. I don't know even one DOOM3, Half Life, Battlefield Vietnam hardcore blaster that would even be the least bit interested in FS for more than 10 minutes.The fact is that without the 3rd party add-on market MSFS would be of no interest to me as the realism would be abysmal, as it is out of the box. EVEN IF MS modeled the default 747, 737 and Cessna's in painstaking detail what about the myriad of other aircraft, commerical and civil, that we all have on our harddrives? What about all of the add-on scenery, mesh, photoreal terrain etc that adds to the realism? What about the clouds, the utilities, the cockpit add-ons, etc? You CANNOT add these into a static game console DVD-ROM.The fact is that MSFS is a special game title that really doesn't fit into the game category more than it does fit into the learning / simulation category. Additionally, the demographic for MSFS users is vastly different than that of X-Box users. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of MSFS users don't even own a game consule...neither would be interested in buying one just to utilize a generic version of MSFS.SO, lets even take the worse case scenario and say that MS DID port MSFS over to X-BOX, what would the traditional PC market do as there is no real viable alternative. Sure there is FLY! or X-Plane, but notice neither of these are, or were, able to surplant FS as the standard for PC flight simulation for one reason or another. Likewiase there is NO alternative to MSFS with the same bredth, scope and following so that would be the end of that for the foreseeable future. Not good.Personally, I think that this whole XBox thing is just another misinformed rumor, but if its not then the marketing manager at Microsoft who thought of it had better think about looking for another job when FS for XBOX goes the way of Microsoft Train Simulator which didn't even make it to the second version.Mike T.

There are already popular console titles that have peacefull flying in them and the X-Box 360 is marketed as a multi media applience not as a traditional FPS/race/sport game console. So a civ flying sim makes sense.Having a plain vanilla FS X with super (beter than PC) always running a smooth framerate graphics, decent default aircraft and special controller (yoke, pedals) would be a great move. Sure 90% of us will miss add-ons, special contollers and 3rd party feature X but guess what? we are probably only 10% of the total FS-X market. The other 90% get a FS that works great out of the box without any worries about having to tweak or upgrade to run the game.A PC release (port) could always folow the X-Box title. Maybe waiting a year so the PC hardware is beter. If there is pressure from competitor in the FS market they can always release earlier.More important however is this. The X-Box 360 is strategicly important to Microsoft. They are commited to get the X-Box 360 and its launch titles ready before Christmas 2005. This means that a lot of Microsoft game development teams will work on X-Box titles this year. So if there is no FS on X-Box the FS on PC version will certainly be delayed until next year

Hi Mike,Yes I agree. Releasing the next version of FS exclusively on X-BOX would likely kill it (FS) stone dead. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in acquiring an X-BOX, Playstation or whatever, but do appreciate that my predilections are not necessarily shared by those who will. Unless the next version is something very special indeed and is all-encompassing in its scope then without the 3rd Party support I would, with much regret, draw that proverbial line in the sand with FS9.Flight Simulator is unique in the history of software development and much of that is directly attributable to the dedication and enthusiasm shown by its developers. That enthusiasm is borne in no small measure by the massive and varied contributions made by legions of interested hobbyists like ourselves. That is what keeps it going and no amount of pandering to the shoot-em-up action brigade will ensure its continuing survival.My own feeling, as stated in the other thread, is that this FS/X-BOX business is a complete red herring and is being fueled by those who are currently feeling frustrated by the lack of information concerning the timing of the next release.If, and it's a very big if, the next version does appear on X-BOX I suspect it will happen only because Microsoft are keen to experiment by trying to introduce it to a broader market. However, in order to encourage sales of such a version it would have to appeal to that new audience in a radically different form. My son-in-law has a PS2 and I would suspect he is typical of console owners in that any interest he may have in Flight Simulator is hardly detectable. In truth such ardent gamers consider the whole concept as being totally boring. Indeed he shares my wife's opinion and, I am sure, many who are reading this will be able to empathize with my frustrations when we try repeatedly to engage their interest beyond those few precious minutes. It's like knocking our heads against that proverbial brick wall. They will never truly understand the seemingly boundless fascination and pleasure Flight Simulator gives to us. I guess our brains are wired differently and one should, of course, acknowledge that fact.The next version of FS will, I feel sure, appear, as usual, on the PC. If not, then I am equally certain that contributors to the forums at Avsim will continue to enjoy, develop and discuss FS9 for some time to come. It would be a tragic mistake if Microsoft were to turn their backs on our community after such a long partnership (admittedly one is mostly silent, but we do know they pay attention and our input does have some influence in the direction taken by the developers) and, for what it's worth, my own view is that it just ain't gonna happen!Mike

I've now thought a bit more about all this. Perhaps I'm being over simplistic, but maybe the way forward for everyone is to have the impressive capabilities of the likes of X-BOX and PLAYSTATION made available to the interested PC owner on a card.This may seem a radical idea fraught with difficulties but, when you think about it, this would provide a solution that would satisfy almost everyone. I accept that this may betray a certain level of ignorance on my part as the practicalities asscociated with implementing such an idea may be insurmountable and thus make it a non-starter.However, if this scenario is achievable then all those PC owners who need their machines for tasks other than simming and/or gaming will have that option giving them all the flexibility of use that is required to satisfy their needs.There are undoubtedly many X-BOX and PS owners who neither know nor wish to know anything about computing nor the myriad uses and advantages that can derive from such ownership. Equally, there are legions of PC owners who aren't even remotely interested in acquiring a powerful console for gaming. X-BOX/PS on a card could conceivably provide the inexpensive answer.I don't see this as a threat to the continuing viability of the chip manufactures as development is bound to continue as they compete to persuade us to change our allegiance. I can envisage the appearance of PCIe cards built around technologies that are Intel/nVidia, AMD/ATI or any combination that is likely to sell and we, as ever, will be the winners.This solution would have the obvious added advantage of slowing down the constant drive to upgrade our foundation PC units as the everyday application software would not require the ever escalating horsepower. Those of us who are passionate about simming/gaming and are always looking for the best performance possible could simply switch to X-BOX/PS technology by switching to the installed card when needed.Seems to me that if I have thought of this solution others with the resources and power of implementation will have considered it as well. Perhaps there are just too many problems associated with the idea or current technology is not yet sufficiently mature to allow this proposal to become a reality.What do you think?Mike