First of, I am not a Carenado hater or basher, far from it, I own a few of their planes so I am aware of their strengths and their weaknesses, and knowing that I am able to enjoy their products, although I still wish they would develop their planes better.

As a paying customer I rely on information and feedback from people that have had a chance to test their planes and provide us with extremely valuable feedback that helps us make a decision on wether to buy their planes or not. As such for example, and knowing the pretty fair amount of negative feedback that the Citation received, I still decided that it was worth it for me to purchase it and was able to enjoy the plane using some of the mods from this forum, for which I am extremely grateful to all.

Carenado has in fact now denied me and others the chance to form a fair and unbiased opinion on whether to purchase the Hawker by deleting a lot of the most serious complains about the plane on their Facebook page. Thankfully we still have this page to form an opinion.

That's disappointing if true.

I would never consider comments in any page owned or maintained by a business to be completely representative of a product, or in this case, a developer.  Facebook pages are essentially an extension of a business when operated by a business; just as it would be crazy for a 'brick and mortar' business to put negative reviews up on their walls, it would be crazy for a business not to remove negative feedback from a page they manage.

 

You really can't blame them for this.

 

Third party forums, reviews, and other channels are always going to be the best chance (not guaranteed, but the best chance) at being able to find a complete assessment of a product, good or bad.

I would never consider comments in any page owned or maintained by a business to be completely representative of a product, or in this case, a developer.  Facebook pages are essentially an extension of a business when operated by a business; just as it would be crazy for a 'brick and mortar' business to put negative reviews up on their walls, it would be crazy for a business not to remove negative feedback from a page they manage.

 

You really can't blame them for this.

 

Third party forums, reviews, and other channels are always going to be the best chance (not guaranteed, but the best chance) at being able to find a complete assessment of a product, good or bad.

I totally agree, Facebook is used by business as a marketing tool, not a support forum

I totally agree, Facebook is used by business as a marketing tool, not a support forum

Where is the support forum?

Not a forum but support anyway and the most of the issues that seem to be happening are addressed. https://carenado.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

 

Problem is everyone runs to Facebook these days and shouts about their problems before checking knowledge bases and support. Its easy to complain to other than hear solutions from manufacturers.

Not a forum but support anyway and the most of the issues that seem to be happening are addressed. https://carenado.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

 

Problem is everyone runs to Facebook these days and shouts about their problems before checking knowledge bases and support. Its easy to complain to other than hear solutions from manufacturers.

You are absolutely right in that, generally speaking, although I am no Facebook follower. However Carenado has historically ignored the legitimate complains voiced here and elsewhere for the multiple bugs found on their planes upon release. In fact, had it not been for the support here at Avsim and for the fixes made to carenado's planes here, I would not have bought the Citation. I did a ticket with them for the Phenom or the Citation, can't remember which, but I do remember it took almost three full weeks for me to get a generic reply that did not address my question.

I fully wanted to believe that they were serious this time with the Hawker, I still would like to, but the initial comments did not look good prior to them censoring them out.

Hi,

 

 

 

it would be crazy for a business not to remove negative feedback from a page they manage.
 
You really can't blame them for this.

 

well, in my opinion thats not quite true - if the critics are right in what they criticize the better way of dealing with them would be to stay open minded and correct the problems of the software - thereby gaining a reputation of being a company that can deal with critics and overcome them.....

 

And if the critics are not correct - aggressivly point them to the solution in the support database.... shutting them down! However, deleting posts is not the best way to handle things like that, because they will just pop up elsewhere on the internet - which I have no control over....

The unofficial Carenado Sub-forum here at AVSIM is a far more objective and useful place to discuss bugs and issues with Carenado releases.   Their Facebook Page is just a "shop window" for them.

If someone camped outside your store window with picket signs, wouldn't you tell them to leave?

 

That said, I don't support Carenado's practice of releasing $50 aircraft that in effect don't work like $50 aircraft.

They can censor all they want on FB and their own forums, but here they have no moderation authority.

 

I was excited to buy the Hawker but no chance of that now.

If someone camped outside your store window with picket signs, wouldn't you tell them to leave?

Technically... if they're in a public area... you can't... BUT... that's another discussion entirely! :smile:

I also thought about the Hawker.  I don't plan on purchasing it anymore after seeing the reviews, etc.  The release of the Flight1 B200 for P3D made the decision even easier.

 

John

What a shame. Companies censoring bad press, even if it's on 'their' page (which is also technically a public place since it is on Facebook), really rubs me the wrong way. As a huge fan of regional turboprop airliners, I was wildly excited when they released their B1900D, and despite it's flaws I love it. Was hoping that they would release a B1900C at some point, but if they continue down their path of censorship and releasing overpriced products, they won't be getting another dime from me. 

Companies censoring bad press, even if it's on 'their' page (which is also technically a public place since it is on Facebook), really rubs me the wrong way.

 

The analogy to a public place, referring back to the idea of a retailer occupying a physical location or store, would be not equal to someone on the sidewalk being asked to leave, but rather to the outer wall of the store.  If one was to place a flyer on that wall that was critical of the product or retailer, the retailer would be well within their rights to remove it.

 

I have no issue with people sharing their honest opinions.  I just really disagree with the idea that a retailer removing negative reviews on a Facebook page equals censorship.  Facebook page = advertising, pure and simple.

 

I'll look to Facebook for whatever a developer has to say about their product, and then I'll turn to forums to see what users have to say.  Works well.  And in this case, it'll save me $50. ^_^

 

 

I'll look to Facebook for whatever a developer has to say about their product, and then I'll turn to forums to see what users have to say.  Works well.  And in this case, it'll save me $50. ^_^

Of course, whatever a developer has to say about their product on Facebook or any other medium has to be balanced with unbiased feedback, and I am 100% ok with the developer using Facebook to promote their product. The problem for me is that once you as a "store" owner enable and allow customers to post comments, you've got to respect those comments positive or not. You cannot then delete the negative ones, that is misleading, bordering on fraudulent simply because they are giving us the impression that comments can freely be posted there.