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Carenado blocking negative comments on Facebook

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First of, I am not a Carenado hater or basher, far from it, I own a few of their planes so I am aware of their strengths and their weaknesses, and knowing that I am able to enjoy their products, although I still wish they would develop their planes better.

As a paying customer I rely on information and feedback from people that have had a chance to test their planes and provide us with extremely valuable feedback that helps us make a decision on wether to buy their planes or not. As such for example, and knowing the pretty fair amount of negative feedback that the Citation received, I still decided that it was worth it for me to purchase it and was able to enjoy the plane using some of the mods from this forum, for which I am extremely grateful to all.

Carenado has in fact now denied me and others the chance to form a fair and unbiased opinion on whether to purchase the Hawker by deleting a lot of the most serious complains about the plane on their Facebook page. Thankfully we still have this page to form an opinion.

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I would never consider comments in any page owned or maintained by a business to be completely representative of a product, or in this case, a developer.  Facebook pages are essentially an extension of a business when operated by a business; just as it would be crazy for a 'brick and mortar' business to put negative reviews up on their walls, it would be crazy for a business not to remove negative feedback from a page they manage.

 

You really can't blame them for this.

 

Third party forums, reviews, and other channels are always going to be the best chance (not guaranteed, but the best chance) at being able to find a complete assessment of a product, good or bad.

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I would never consider comments in any page owned or maintained by a business to be completely representative of a product, or in this case, a developer.  Facebook pages are essentially an extension of a business when operated by a business; just as it would be crazy for a 'brick and mortar' business to put negative reviews up on their walls, it would be crazy for a business not to remove negative feedback from a page they manage.

 

You really can't blame them for this.

 

Third party forums, reviews, and other channels are always going to be the best chance (not guaranteed, but the best chance) at being able to find a complete assessment of a product, good or bad.

I totally agree, Facebook is used by business as a marketing tool, not a support forum

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I totally agree, Facebook is used by business as a marketing tool, not a support forum

Where is the support forum?

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Not a forum but support anyway and the most of the issues that seem to be happening are addressed. https://carenado.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

 

Problem is everyone runs to Facebook these days and shouts about their problems before checking knowledge bases and support. Its easy to complain to other than hear solutions from manufacturers.

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Not a forum but support anyway and the most of the issues that seem to be happening are addressed. https://carenado.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

 

Problem is everyone runs to Facebook these days and shouts about their problems before checking knowledge bases and support. Its easy to complain to other than hear solutions from manufacturers.

You are absolutely right in that, generally speaking, although I am no Facebook follower. However Carenado has historically ignored the legitimate complains voiced here and elsewhere for the multiple bugs found on their planes upon release. In fact, had it not been for the support here at Avsim and for the fixes made to carenado's planes here, I would not have bought the Citation. I did a ticket with them for the Phenom or the Citation, can't remember which, but I do remember it took almost three full weeks for me to get a generic reply that did not address my question.

I fully wanted to believe that they were serious this time with the Hawker, I still would like to, but the initial comments did not look good prior to them censoring them out.

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Hi,

 

 

 


it would be crazy for a business not to remove negative feedback from a page they manage.
 
You really can't blame them for this.

 

well, in my opinion thats not quite true - if the critics are right in what they criticize the better way of dealing with them would be to stay open minded and correct the problems of the software - thereby gaining a reputation of being a company that can deal with critics and overcome them.....

 

And if the critics are not correct - aggressivly point them to the solution in the support database.... shutting them down! However, deleting posts is not the best way to handle things like that, because they will just pop up elsewhere on the internet - which I have no control over....

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The unofficial Carenado Sub-forum here at AVSIM is a far more objective and useful place to discuss bugs and issues with Carenado releases.   Their Facebook Page is just a "shop window" for them.

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If someone camped outside your store window with picket signs, wouldn't you tell them to leave?

 

That said, I don't support Carenado's practice of releasing $50 aircraft that in effect don't work like $50 aircraft.

They can censor all they want on FB and their own forums, but here they have no moderation authority.

 

I was excited to buy the Hawker but no chance of that now.

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If someone camped outside your store window with picket signs, wouldn't you tell them to leave?

Technically... if they're in a public area... you can't... BUT... that's another discussion entirely! :smile:

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I also thought about the Hawker.  I don't plan on purchasing it anymore after seeing the reviews, etc.  The release of the Flight1 B200 for P3D made the decision even easier.

 

John

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What a shame. Companies censoring bad press, even if it's on 'their' page (which is also technically a public place since it is on Facebook), really rubs me the wrong way. As a huge fan of regional turboprop airliners, I was wildly excited when they released their B1900D, and despite it's flaws I love it. Was hoping that they would release a B1900C at some point, but if they continue down their path of censorship and releasing overpriced products, they won't be getting another dime from me. 

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Companies censoring bad press, even if it's on 'their' page (which is also technically a public place since it is on Facebook), really rubs me the wrong way.

 

The analogy to a public place, referring back to the idea of a retailer occupying a physical location or store, would be not equal to someone on the sidewalk being asked to leave, but rather to the outer wall of the store.  If one was to place a flyer on that wall that was critical of the product or retailer, the retailer would be well within their rights to remove it.

 

I have no issue with people sharing their honest opinions.  I just really disagree with the idea that a retailer removing negative reviews on a Facebook page equals censorship.  Facebook page = advertising, pure and simple.

 

I'll look to Facebook for whatever a developer has to say about their product, and then I'll turn to forums to see what users have to say.  Works well.  And in this case, it'll save me $50. ^_^

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I'll look to Facebook for whatever a developer has to say about their product, and then I'll turn to forums to see what users have to say.  Works well.  And in this case, it'll save me $50. ^_^

Of course, whatever a developer has to say about their product on Facebook or any other medium has to be balanced with unbiased feedback, and I am 100% ok with the developer using Facebook to promote their product. The problem for me is that once you as a "store" owner enable and allow customers to post comments, you've got to respect those comments positive or not. You cannot then delete the negative ones, that is misleading, bordering on fraudulent simply because they are giving us the impression that comments can freely be posted there. 

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I do agree with you to a certain extent. I should have clarified in my post that I understand that they have the right to remove whatever posts they want from their Facebook page. That doesn't mean that they should, however. A developer's Facebook page can act something like the equivalent of yelp or trip advisor for their customers who don't know/care about forums like avsim, and allows them to broadcast their displeasure with a product to potential customers if something is wrong. If a negative comment is posted, I believe that a developer should keep it up in the interest of fairness and openness. In fact, they may even use it to their advantage, as by replying to a negative comment by offering help they can seem like they care about their customers and will do what they can to make a problem right. 

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It's also the same problem here.
A few days ago I tried to make some complains about a Milviz product on Avsim forum. A Milviz commercial member who is also a moderator (this is the problem) remove all my posts. They contact me by email and refund me for this product... nice...

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... I don't support Carenado's practice of releasing $50 aircraft that in effect don't work like $50 aircraft...

 

That's why I wait until the Christmas Sale to buy Carenado; then, it's not such a hit on the Wallet if the Airplane turns out to be a bust.

 

However, with my 'new' Laptop, Carenado's offerings sure do seem to 'work' better than on my old rig!

 

IMHO (read: Humble), I think the Forums are a better place to get Feedback than other venues like FB. One tends to get a more rounded view of what's good, and bad.

 

:smile:

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ahah funny, my previous message is still missing

If it's anything like the one referenced above... probably better off missing. Just saying.

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All points posted here certainly each have validity. I can see where anyone wanting to drop $50 on a download would certainly want to hear it all, "the good, bad and the ugly" but how Carenado would sneer at negative comments on their Facebook page.  My wife posts to her Facebook almost daily.  If any of her friends were to say negative comments, I assure you she would "unfriend" them.  However, to the topic starters point, I believe Carenado is giving the impression that there's nothing negative with their products with is totally misleading. I believe the real gripe here is that we, as customers, that allow them to stay in business have to solve most of their issues amongst ourselves.  Every other major product developer has a dedicated forum in which you can post general topics, make suggestions, as well as receive  technical support  for their products.  Is that too much to ask of Carenado???   The just of the matter is that many of us are frustrated with them.  They expect us to buy from them, however, provide little to no support, and then when we have legitimate complaints or suggestions they go on deaf ears.  We, their customers, have to talk amongst ourselves to come up with solutions.  The really sad part about all that's being said is, they probably won't even read this, or if they do, they will never make acknowledgment of it.  I once made a reply on another general forum about another company's product that I felt I would not be purchasing because I didn't feel the pricing was fair.  To my surprise, the lead developer of this product, addressed my post and stated exactly why they were charging this price.  I was so amazed by this that I ended up making the purchase after all.  Fact is, the product developer cared enough about his product that he wanted to hear any and everything that was being said about it!  Wake up Carenado and smell the coffee!!!!!!

 

Gary

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Perhaps if they spent less time on Facebook and more time actually crafting the product they are ridiculously hyping, there would be fewer complaints and more satisfied customers saying nice things.

 

I'm now twice-bitten by these scurrilous rogues. There will not be a third time.

 

I wouldn't buy the Hawker even if they paid me. And somehow I don't think I'll regret my decision. <_<

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If someone camped outside your store window with picket signs, wouldn't you tell them to leave?

You could ask, but they would not have to if they were on a public sidewalk. Maybe not the best analogy, but I understand your point.

 

 However, deleting posts is not the best way to handle things like that, because they will just pop up elsewhere on the internet - which I have no control over....

That is very true, and clearly a risk many companies are willing to take. Personally, I find that engaging the customer is a better solution, but there is a reason businesses post signs saying "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

 

but if they continue down their path of censorship and releasing overpriced products, they won't be getting another dime from me. 

The term "censorship" is a bit aggressive, but overall I agree - voting with your wallet has the most impact on a developer.

 

You cannot then delete the negative ones

Of course you can. There is a button coded specifically for that purpose.

 

It doesn't bother me that Carenado deletes posts. It does not affect my life one bit. And I still fly the crap out of the AG Truck and Skymaster.

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If it's anything like the one referenced above... probably better off missing. Just saying.

 

hum... I completely disagree. In any case, censorship is evil!

First, this person is dishonest because he has removed 2/3 posts before and after this one. There was not only one post, he lied.

Second, I can't understand that commercial members can be moderators, this is nonsense.

3/ Anyway, it's better to communicate with unhappy customers instead of "get back your money and shut up" and censor/remove messages.

4/ The last answer was "However, you will not be allowed to purchase any of our pedicures directly in the future.". This joke... Sorry mate, but it's my job so...

facebook, avsim, same censorship from commercial teams...

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