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Looking forward to their Android XP10 release. Not because I'm terribly excited about quickly draining batteries while being bound to touchscreen controls in a flight sim, but because they've explained that this mobile revenue path is a major one for them. So the mobile thingies fund the main sim development and with offering the current XP10 tech on Android, it should create a lot of additional attention.

 

So that's good news indeed. :smile: I might actually get it, plus a plane (which is the payment option in the free-to-play concept).

 

Must say that the sheer presence of XP, may it be in retail, on STEAM or on those both mobile platforms, is a nice setup to reach out to all kinds of customers and potential flight sim fans.

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I can't say I'm particularly excited by an Android version (I think like most here), and if this is the reason 10.40 development has gone quiet and the developers have disappeared then fair enough, I guess money talks, and if this makes money, then good luck to them..but whether this effort will go back into X-Plane desktop (And I'm not talking about dropping bombs and particle effects), then we'll see.

 

I wonder what will happen with XP11 in this regard. Will it be steam-based with DLC?, e.g. New Autogen, regions, etc.. I hope not, but the way the entire industry seems to be going, I wouldn't be massively shocked if this was announced. 

 

I always look at the recent example of SimCity. A much loved gaming franchise which was completely ruined in its last revision by this same DLC-ridden and dumbing down mentality. Now, a small company mostly unknown comes along, listens to what Simcity fans actually wanted, and it makes them a good pile of money (I'm talking about Cities Skylines which has been a big success). 

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I can't say I'm particularly excited by an Android version (I think like most here), and if this is the reason 10.40 development has gone quiet and the developers have disappeared then fair enough, I guess money talks, and if this makes money, then good luck to them..but whether this effort will go back into X-Plane desktop (And I'm not talking about dropping bombs and particle effects), then we'll see.

 

I wonder what will happen with XP11 in this regard. Will it be steam-based with DLC?, e.g. New Autogen, regions, etc.. I hope not, but the way the entire industry seems to be going, I wouldn't be massively shocked if this was announced. 

 

I always look at the recent example of SimCity. A much loved gaming franchise which was completely ruined in its last revision by this same DLC-ridden and dumbing down mentality. Now, a small company mostly unknown comes along, listens to what Simcity fans actually wanted, and it makes them a good pile of money (I'm talking about Cities Skylines which has been a big success). 

 

Its more a question of would there be a XP11 if there was no mobile ?  Try to make a living for multiple people if your only income is a new version of X-Plane every 2-3 years. You dont sell 100k copies of that. X-P Mobile generates revenue that is really needed and enables more developers etc. Reality would be that without X-P Mobile, 10.4 would be XP11. So in effect mobile is supporting your free development of xp10.

 

also how did you get the idea of dlc ? was there any notice that they will do regional payable dlc?  is this from somewhere or just a rumour?

 

yes cities skylines made everything correct that ea made wrong with sim city. so a corporate stock listed company drove a huge ip into the ground, while a small developer team with a publisher that wasnt ######, made a small fortune.  Explain then why you think Laminar Research with 6-10 people is like EA ?

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I can see where Tony gets the DLC idea, that being an aspect of and the only way to make money in the mobile devices market but I'd be really surprised if the core desktop sim followed that sales model. I think once the mobile platforms code is finalized and they are finally out the door, attention will turn once again to the desktop version.

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Try to make a living for multiple people if your only income is a new version of X-Plane every 2-3 years

 

Well, I wouldn't say they're struggling for cash and it isn't their only source of income, but that's not what I'm talking about. I've been trying to get help from the developers (on simple questions which could have saved me hours and hours of work), and it's a hard egg to swallow being ignored continually and then getting an email saying "Look at our new mobile platform" etc.. 10.40 has all about disappeared from the radar again, and I'm simply saying "Now we know why".

 

 

 


So in effect mobile is supporting your free development of xp10.

 

Not necessarily, I'd saying it's going to support development of XP11, which we'll have to pay for again anyway (and I don't mind paying for it again)

 

Regarding DLC. I said I wouldn't be shocked if it happened as it's seem everyone is doing it. If XP mobile is such a big success for them and makes them good money, then why wouldn't they look at doing the same on the desktop version?

 

 

 


Explain then why you think Laminar Research with 6-10 people is like EA ?

 

I don't think they're like EA. I think they're behaving like EA and ignoring what their user-base and developers actually want, and in my opinion it will hurt them in the long run. I could list many examples, but I'm not going to repeat what is already a common theme seen on most posts here.


I can see where Tony gets the DLC idea, that being an aspect of and the only way to make money in the mobile devices market but I'd be really surprised if the core desktop sim followed that sales model. I think once the mobile platforms code is finalized and they are finally out the door, attention will turn once again to the desktop version.

 

Again, I've not heard rumours or anything that this will happen, I'm saying I wouldn't be shocked to see it. It's pretty common now, just have a look at Steam. AeroflyFS do it (i.e. Plane addons), Euro Truck Simulator (They sell new regions, e.g. Scandinavia and Eastern Europe). 

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Again, I've not heard rumours or anything that this will happen, I'm saying I wouldn't be shocked to see it. It's pretty common now, just have a look at Steam. AeroflyFS do it (i.e. Plane addons), Euro Truck Simulator (They sell new regions, e.g. Scandinavia and Eastern Europe). 

 

Sad to say it wouldn't be incredibly surprising, that's true. It's absolutely fair to acknowledge that DLC is the most prominent feature of game sales today whether we like it or not.  I'd love to see the sales figures for Steam to know how much of a bearing that will have on future plans.

So how would that sensibly apply to sims? I think the major appeal worldwide of desktop sims is that anyone in any part of the world can fly anywhere they want at any time. So the whole world has to be available at the outset. If you went with a regional DLC model, all the regions would have to be available from the get go. This could work for anyone selling a desktop sim including DTG about which there is so much speculation at the minute. Would Flight have succeeded if they had had the whole world ready to go when they launched, even if it was in regional packages? I think it probably would have. I never fly outside of Ireland UK so I would be happy just to purchase Europe for instance.

It's something simmers don't want to countenance but it is nonetheless a reality of the times. Just because we are used to having the whole world doesn't mean it will always be so unless we are willing to pay for each part of it.

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I actually don't have the entire world installed. I have most of Europe, New Zealand and one or two tiles in the US. So, global coverage is not a big factor for me. But, I don't see how charging for extra mesh could work with X-Plane as it currently stands (MS Flight tried and failed). Firstly, we already have things like HD Mesh v3, and secondly what's the point of selling scenery coverage if the entire world is textured and looks the same?

 

If it were to happen, then the DLC would probably be things like airplanes, missions, autogen etc.. In fact, I think the Steam store is great if they'd allow in third-party developers. It would be a great way for third-parties to earn money and give them incentive to develop and improve the sim. 

 

..and as a final thought. It is happening right now with FSX SE, and I'm guessing that whatever Dovetail do with their rumoured new sim, it will involve DLC in some shape or form, as will the long awaited AeroflyFS 2.

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I think they're behaving like EA and ignoring what their user-base and developers actually want, and in my opinion it will hurt them in the long run.

Nothing new ... X-Plane was ALWAYS about what Laminar, esp. Austin, wanted.

 

In fact, I think the Steam store is great if they'd allow in third-party developers. It would be a great way for third-parties to earn money and give them incentive to develop and improve the sim. 

 

..and as a final thought. It is happening right now with FSX SE, and I'm guessing that whatever Dovetail do with their rumoured new sim, it will involve DLC in some shape or form, as will the long awaited AeroflyFS 2.

It is happening right now not only with FSX SE, but with X-Plane's Steam version, too. Several airports by Aerosoft, and many aircraft by Carenado are on Steam. Another developer will follow soon.

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We keep talking about how "money from mobile apps is what funds the desktop app"..

 

..anyone else concerned that may ultimately turn in to "mobile makes money, desktop doesn't - stop bothering w/ desktop version"

 

Remember - Austin doesn't need a publicly released X-Plane to use the sim for his purposes. 

Lots of headaches come with publicly released software and if Mobile is all that makes money...

 

Jus' saying.  :unsure:

 

 

 

 

Re:  DLC

 

I'd *LOVE* to give more money to Laminar for official XPX add-ons, scenery, etc - They just don't make any!

 

Hard for us to keep paying Laminar when the desktop product doesn't offer anything to buy other than the core sim.

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It is happening right now not only with FSX SE, but with X-Plane's Steam version, too. Several airports by Aerosoft, and many aircraft by Carenado are on Steam. Another developer will follow soon.

 

I never noticed, but that's great. I like Steam for the simple convenience that it autoupdates and keeps all the plugins in the right place. I have addons purchased all over the place in different stores, and it's difficult to know when updates are out, etc..

 

 

 


..anyone else concerned that may ultimately turn in to "mobile makes money, desktop doesn't - stop bothering w/ desktop version"

 

I don't think they'd abandon the desktop version any time soon, but I am worried that they'll dumb down the simulator in the next version without actually finishing anything that was originally planned for XP10 (Like ATC, AI) and addressing existing issues/concerns, and instead adding things like bombing missions, challenges, etc.. 

 

 

 


They just don't make any! Hard for us to keep paying Laminar when the desktop product doesn't offer anything to buy other than the core sim.

 

Maybe they simply don't need to or see it worthwhile. Look at all the stuff available for free, from HD Mesh, G2XPL, Simheaven, high quality airports, etc.. That's not to say I wouldn't also buy official LR stuff. If I knew it was going into funding the desktop sim and is also something I'd use, I'd buy it. But, I don't want to and won't purchase a sim/game purposely crippled so that it forces the buyer to spend even more money to enable features, etc.. (Disclaimer: I don't think LR would ever do this, I'm referring to a certain other company).

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@Tony:

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is:  Laminar says they are doing Mobile because it's a way to make money.

 

Well -- Then give Desktop users more ways to pay.... i.e. make 1st party add-ons and aircraft, etc

 

What I think they simply don't want to say is that Mobile is an easy money grab. 

 

You can feature cripple (as you mentioned) a graphically low res and very basic sim and then pull in cash selling simply little plane add-ons.

It's just easy money, which the desktop add-ons wouldn't necessarily be.

 

I have a great idea.

How about doing a whole new WX engine and making it a $40 add-on?

I'm in FOR SURE

 

XPX WX PRO we could call it.

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I don't think they'd abandon the desktop version any time soon, but I am worried that they'll dumb down the simulator in the next version without actually finishing anything that was originally planned for XP10 (Like ATC, AI) and addressing existing issues/concerns, and instead adding things like bombing missions, challenges, etc..

 

Been there, done that, it was called 'Flight'...

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The fun thing is that if you are capable of making a weather engine and are proven in the x-plane community, you can contact austin and offer to work for them. I mean this is pretty much simplified and not literarly that easy but Laminar is basically alot of people working remote. Thats how the GPS was done by a german. Development of the stuff is mostly modular.

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The fun thing is that if you are capable of making a weather engine and are proven in the x-plane community, you can contact austin and offer to work for them. I mean this is pretty much simplified and not literarly that easy but Laminar is basically alot of people working remote.

The only problem is that nobody's actually doing it...

 

Also, it's my understanding that doing a new weather module is so integrated into the core of the Sim that really only LM knows how to do it or can enable the ability to do it perhaps?

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The only problem is that nobody's actually doing it...

 

Also, it's my understanding that doing a new weather module is so integrated into the core of the Sim that really only LM knows how to do it or can enable the ability to do it perhaps?

...the real problem is a missing SDK, no?

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Been there, done that, it was called 'Flight'...

 

Sorry that is not completly correct. Flight in itself was very capable. The problem was/is that Microsoft thought they can make an ecosystem all by themselves and shove something cylindrical into 3rd party developers rear end. THats why it felt dumbed down but only because there was nothing capable availabe.  The fun thing is the new simulator that dovetail announced based on flight will have the same closed ecosystem and probably be a huge success. MS was just 10 years early :)

The only problem is that nobody's actually doing it...

 

Also, it's my understanding that doing a new weather module is so integrated into the core of the Sim that really only LM knows how to do it or can enable the ability to do it perhaps?

Well if you would work for Laminar you would get more access. But anyhow that is just guessing about something noone has insight :) I just got form the interview with the german developer how he got into Laminar

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...the real problem is a missing SDK, no?

Again, Laminar needs to do that (if they want to)

 

And we keep getting away from the core problem which is making money.

 

Creating an SDK that allows a third-party to make a new weather engine isn't a new first party add on that LM gets to charge money for and thus not focus on silly games.

 

I want to find a way for them to make more money on desktop so that they keep focusing on desktop

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I want to find a way for them to make more money on desktop so that they keep focusing on desktop

 

A robust SDK is the solution. The more developers involved, the more software Laminar sells. If it works for FSX, it's bound to for X-Plane also.

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There is already an SDK. The issue is that X-Plane internally doesn't support enough to allow more complicated simulation of the weather (3 Cloud Layers and wind layers for a start).

 

I think someone clever enough could get round it and simulate the weather outside the sim. What I mean by this is simulating the effects of multiple weather layers externally (since the SDK allows reading and controlling various parameters from the user's plane). Since Skymaxx Pro can already display weather separately from the sim, I think if someone worked with these guys, we'd see something like this. Plus, isn't this basically what people have been doing with FSX/P3D, i.e. Moving things out of the sim to make it do things it can't do?

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I was going to jump ship from P3D, but reading you guys posts I don't think I'll bother!

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Out of frustration of 10.40's non-appearance I have been spending more time in P3D than in XP recently, but it may be a good time to take an extended break from flight-simming. Perhaps a couple of years will be enough for LR to wrap up their "mobile phase" (once they're done with the Windows Phone version haha), but I do look forward to what XP11 may bring.

 

Anyway there are a lot of good games out or coming out at the moment which deserve attention, and my train-simming has also been getting a bit neglected! :wink:

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It's always a good thing to step away from flight simulation for a while, as it always seems nicer when you come back. I've done the same, I'm not using any flight sim at the moment for the enjoyment of it, the only reason I fire up X-Plane is to test scenery I'm making, etc.. But, even now, I'm ready to step away and take a month away from it to refresh my brain. As boring as it is to some, I actually like Euro Truck Simulator 2 :-)

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As boring as it is to some, I actually like Euro Truck Simulator 2 :-)
Not boring at all mate, I have put many hours into virtual trucking; have you tried ETS2MP?

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