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srborick

Next Generation Flight Simulator SIM-Posium is now OPEN!

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May 11th, 2015 – A new flight simulator community website has been completed and is now officially open.

 

www.nexgenflightsim.com

 

The website, dubbed “the Next Generation Flight Simulator SIM-Posium opens its doors to all flight simulator enthusiasts and the general public for the purpose of discussing the future of consumer oriented flight simulation and the probability of creating a community driven next generation flight simulator.

 

It is the goal of the SIM-Posium to move the community towards establishing the criteria of a next generation flight simulator, the discovery of an appropriate 3D platform for development, the gathering of talented individuals whose expertise (whether through education or experience) can be utilized for the creation and development of a next generation flight simulator, as well as establishing the general consensus of the community towards using a CrowdFunding Campaign for the purposes of raising the necessary funds.

 

The use of traditional forum settings as well as member submitted articles, comments, surveys, polls, voting and other website features will be used  to obtain a consensus as to the overall direction that should be taken when considering the development of a next generation flight simulator.

 

In addition members will have access to tools providing the ability to collaborate on a Group / Team basis.

 

The NGFS SIM-Posium organizer, Stephen Borick - a long time flight simulator enthusiast - has set a time frame for the SIM-Posium as a minimal period of six months, which he hopes will be sufficient time to determine the "WILL" of the flight simulator community and their commitment towards achieving the goal of creating a next generation flight simulator.

 

Everyone is invited to participate in this 1st online Next Generation Flight Simulator SIM-Posium. Your input will be invaluable.

 

You can visit the site and read all of the information available, but if you want to be an active participant your registration is required. You can visit and register by visiting the site at www.nexgenflightsim.com

 

As a protective measure against spammers, the site uses an aggressive program called “Stop Spammers”. Occasionally a legitimate user may be blocked. If this happens to you, please fill out the Allow Request form. This process can take up to 24 hours. For those who may run into this problem, our sincere apologies and thank you for your patience.

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Thanks for your reply... 

This is the official opening of the site. All mentions of the site previously were based upon a work in progress. 

Yes, the site is a bit quiet at the moment. But that's only because you haven't yet posted anything. So... it's up to you the community to get involved.... That is, if a next generation flight simulator is what you're wanting to achieve. TIME WILL TELL.

 

Please read the announcement completely to get a better understanding of the purpose of the NGFS SIM-Posium.

 

Thanks, 

Stephen Borick

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Thanks for the Pinned... very much appreciated.

 

Stephen Borick

NGFS SIM-Posium Host

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Great work Stephen, that site took a huge amount of thought and effort to get off the ground. I'm certainly on board and I hope the aim is achieved!

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Stephen,

 

For better or worse, I tend to be a bit skeptical about approaches that are different from the norm.  I do apologize, but crowdfunding suggestions raise my 'skepticism meter' considerably.  Most crowdfunding campaigns generally involve content creators, which in turn display a promo, demo, or other indication of progress, and then promise a finished product to their backers.  I have supported many campaigns such as this, and have seen several become successes, and several fail.

 

Your website contains a lot of references to content created by other extremely talented development teams, who would seem to have no affiliation with your website or ideas.  In some cases, they even already have their own funding methods and / or business plans in place.

 

If you are successful with a crowdfunding campaign, is there going to be a structure in place to ensure that the development teams (which are creating the content upon the backs of which your website is generating interest) will receive a portion of the funding?  I've found no mention of such on your website thus far.

 

You make this comment above:

 


So... it's up to you the community to get involved.... That is, if a next generation flight simulator is what you're wanting to achieve. TIME WILL TELL.

 

This seems to be a classic passive-aggressive method of making a reader feel guilty for not supporting the specific initiative referenced.  Of course many of us would love a next generation flight simulator, but by phrasing your comment as you have, you are suggesting that if the community doesn't support your initiative, then it must not support a next generation flight simulator at all.

 

Ideas are great things, especially when combined with drive and passion. However, and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here regarding your intentions, I would perhaps caution you on the methods you are employing to generate interest.  To me and perhaps to others, it comes across as a bit unsettling, to say the least.

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From my own careful reading, the notion of crowd funding as a possibility is purely informative. It is not declarative in any form whatsoever.

 

Thus far, this is simply a lot of information gathered into one place to provide the basis for intelligent, informed discussion. This "spadework" is invaluable as a resource, but nothing more can be accomplished until some sort of critical mass is achieved.

 

Certainly no crowd funding effort could even be instigated without a solid, workable plan was in place, and a working pre-alpha program was available. No one would be willing to invest in anything less.

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From my own careful reading, the notion of crowd funding as a possibility is purely informative. It is not declarative in any form whatsoever.

 

Thus far, this is simply a lot of information gathered into one place to provide the basis for intelligent, informed discussion. This "spadework" is invaluable as a resource, but nothing more can be accomplished until some sort of critical mass is achieved.

 

Certainly no crowd funding effort could even be instigated without a solid, workable plan was in place, and a working pre-alpha program was available. No one would be willing to invest in anything less.

 

Bill, this is the page that had my caution meter rocketing skyward the first time I saw it: http://nexgenflightsim.com/forum-2/your-participation-can-earn-you-rewards/rewards-for-success/

 

A crowdfunding campaign is mentioned numerous times.  It isn't declarative in the sense that it's referring to a launched or imminent campaign, but it clearly lays the groundwork for a campaign being the very core of the initiative.

 

On it's own, I don't find fault with that.  However it's when details such as this arise:

 

 

  • Just registering on our site will earn you points.
  • You’ll earn points for visiting the site once a day.
  • You can earn additional points by adding Articles and gain even more points for Articles of value which will be noted as such by the number of “STARS” you earn for those articles from the other members of this SIM-Posium.
  • You can earn points by commenting on an Article as well as points for any “STARS” that your comments might receive.
  • You earn points for posting in the forums.
  • You can earn points by rating other people’s forum posts responsibly. If someone’s post deserves our attention… we want to know about it. You rate the post according to how you feel it is relevant to the goals of this SIM-Posium by either giving it a “thumbs up” or a “thumbs down”.
  • You can earn points by inviting your friends to join the SIM-Posium and when they register you’ll gain additional points.
  • You gain points by participating in Surveys and Polls.

 

Followed by:

 

 

What good are points? 

How about the use of points as currency! 

Once we’ve accomplished our goal of a successful CrowdFunding Campaign we’ll start stocking a Virtual Store with items you’ll definitely want to get your hands on.

 

Apart from that page, everything else seems to be very well intentioned.  But that page, with the focus on encouraging people to be involved in a non-product producing way so that they can be rewarded with proceeds from crowdfunded financing screams... something.

 

I'd very much like this to be a honest, sincere effort. I really would. But as I cautioned the OP / author of that article, it's details such as that which I find to be a bit unsettling.

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Okay, this does seem to be putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Crowd funding should not be used to finance a research project. For that, one would need one or more "Angel Investors" and for that to transpire one would need at least a firm plan in hand.

 

Once a credible prospectus and working example of program is ready, then additional funding could be reasonably sought.

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Okay, this does seem to be putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Crowd funding should not be used to finance a research project. For that, one would need one or more "Angel Investors" and for that to transpire one would need at least a firm plan in hand.

 

Once a credible prospectus and working example of program is ready, then additional funding could be reasonably sought.

 

Well, as far as I read it, at the moment its just a place to discuss the topic of a new Flight Simulator. Nobody is asking for funds at the moment! Its about how, we as a community can achieve a common goal, and that goal being a Next Generation Flight Simulator.

 

If you think that "some Angel Investors" will come from heaven, then I think you are wrong. Croudfunding is one possibility of achieving the funding for this project. However - you are totally wright in that there needs to be a discussion and a workable plan layed out before hand. To achive that - this website was generously put together by one individual who put a lot of work into it, not to mention the financial cost of hosting something like this for the moment.

 

That is exactly what this website is about. Discussions - Ideas - Workplans - How do we get from what we have - to what we want.....

 

Its a campain to gather the entire Flight Simulation Community to support a Next Generation Flight Simulator.... Of course you can wait till one drops down from somewhere - although I doubt that will happen in our life time... so what do we do about that???

 

We can either support this initiative by participation (or any other initiative going in the same direction) or wait till some "Angel Investor" comes along....

 

P.S.: I personnaly think something like this was long overdue - and one of the "Big Players" like AVSIM should have come up with an Idea like this.... cudos to Stephen Borick for even trying to get a bunch of enthusiasts to focus on one goal.......I hope he succeeds....

 

kind regards

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If you think that "some Angel Investors" will come from heaven, then I think you are wrong.

 

Richard, the term 'Angel Investor' is a real thing, used in business / financing talk.  Has no bearing to heaven.  In fact, watch enough Dragon's Den, and you'll think it has more to do with the opposite direction of heaven.  ^_^ 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor

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Well, as far as I read it, at the moment its just a place to discuss the topic of a new Flight Simulator. Nobody is asking for funds at the moment! Its about how, we as a community can achieve a common goal, and that goal being a Next Generation Flight Simulator.

Granted, there is no "ask-it-basket" at the moment. However, please read the referenced article more closely. I've highlighted the specific statement that gives evidence of putting the cart before the horse:

 

One is through a successful CrowdFunding Campaign. This will provide us with the financial means to take the next steps forward by gathering together those who have the necessary “Skill Sets” to create a next generation flight simulator. My hope is that we’ll enter that phase with a ready made team of talented “skilled” individuals who come from out of this SIM-Posium. If not, we’ll find them. There’s an immense amount of talent out there eager to get involved in such a project as ours.

 

Until a proper business plan is established, some form of financial accountability is established, and at least a working example is ready for demonstration, I just cannot see any possibility of forward progress.

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Hi,

 

 

Richard, the term 'Angel Investor' is a real thing, used in business / financing talk.  Has no bearing to heaven.  In fact, watch enough Dragon's Den, and you'll think it has more to do with the opposite direction of heaven.  ^_^

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor

 

I'm totally aware of that  :wink:, but I don't see one on the horizon.... anyhow - if you carefully read all the info on the NGFS website - croudfunding is mentioned as one way of doing it - if through this discussion we (the community) finds an angel investor - even better!!!

 

As I said - its about discussion on how, we as a community (if there is one), can achieve what we want... and there are good examples, that it could work like for instance "Star Citizen", if we get off of our a..es, and contribute.....by sharing ideas etc.

 

regards


Granted, there is no "ask-it-basket" at the moment. However, please read the referenced article more closely. I've highlighted the specific statement that gives evidence of putting the cart before the horse:

 

 

Until a proper business plan is established, some form of financial accountability is established, and at least a working example is ready for demonstration, I just cannot see any possibility of forward progress.

 

True - so why don't you head over and put that into the discussion?

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As I said - its about discussion on how, we as a community (if there is one), can achieve what we want... and there are good examples, that it could work like for instance "Star Citizen", if we get off of our a..es, and contribute.....by sharing ideas etc.

 

Star Citizen is an extremely bad example, and one often used to generate buzz about the potential of crowdfunding campaigns.  There is literally zero relevance to this initiative. It had, at it's soul, one very likable and knowledgeable person that managed to successfully stoke the imaginations of an entire generation of computer gamers.  Chris Roberts brought an immense amount of industry experience to the table, and was believable enough for an outstanding amount of individuals to invest in his ideas.

 

It's also worth noting, that Star Citizen has not yet fully launched.  I've spent a lot of hours flinging about ships in the 'arcade' mode sure, but it's a small parcel of what has ultimately been promised.

 

Also, there was / is very little community involvement beyond the role of throwing a vast amount of money at very expensive ships that cannot be fully used, and beta testing the components as they trickle out.

 

And this is me, as a backer, being positive about Star Citizen!

 

And for it being about discussion, great, have at it.  However, there does seem to be a business plan in place before the discussion has started and it's one that perhaps has some elements that are worth questioning prior to becoming involved.  And that's merely what I'm pointing out.

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For what it's worth I think it's probably an honest attempt to get something going and it's best to give the benefit of the doubt unless evidence to the contrary emerges.

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I agree with Jimmy RFR and Fr. Bill.  Not sure why AVSIM is promoting another website (pinning the topic) to become as successful as AVSIM.  Let the site grow on its own merits.  Maybe AVSIM should take up the "crowdfunding" technique to build its site even more!  In any case, the pin has been removed.

 

Best regards,

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I agree with Jimmy RFR and Fr. Bill.  Not sure why AVSIM is promoting another website (pinning the topic) to become as successful as AVSIM.  Let the site grow on its own merits.  Maybe AVSIM should take up the "crowdfunding" technique to build its site even more!  In any case, the pin has been removed.

 

Best regards,

 

I don't think their site will replace AVSIM... Maybe it's the beginning for a new sim but the community has been the way it is right now for as long as I can recall. Until someone comes with a real touch of modernism (And I don't think the SIM-Posium site is anywhere near modern or user-friendly), AVSIM will stay the king.

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I don't think their site will replace AVSIM... AVSIM will stay the king.

 

I agree but we are not promoting the website here through pinning, special announcements, etc., etc.  They will have to do that on their own.

 

Best regards,

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It'd be really nice to have a Sim-Posium subforum...if that sim gets interesting. 

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To be honest, that would defeat the entire purpose. This gentleman wishes to create -for want of a better word- an "agnostic" website that is not beholden to any existing sim website, and is focused on only one objective.

 

It is a given fact, that regardless of how large a community AVSIM is, our total active membership remains only a fraction of all active simmers worldwide. I've said for years that this is one of the primary reasons why the total flightsim community worldwide is so fragmented...

 

...there are simply too many websites!

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I agree but we are not promoting the website here through pinning, special announcements, etc., etc. They will have to do that on their own.

 

Best regards,

I wonder which moderator pinned it in the first place?

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I did because I didn't feel it is 'competition'. I still don't for that matter.

 

I would not have done that were it another full blown flightsim website of course. That would be silly.

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I did because I didn't feel it is 'competition'. I still don't for that matter.

 

I would not have done that were it another full blown flightsim website of course. That would be silly.

 

Its a shame, that some see it as a "competition" which I also don't think it is.... actually I would have hoped that an "community" like AVSIM would have some interrest for a successful Next Generation Flight Simulator....

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I did because I didn't feel it is 'competition'. I still don't for that matter.

 

I would not have done that were it another full blown flightsim website of course. That would be silly.

I admire your honesty in coming forward. I didn't think the mod who pinned it would want to admit to it, after it was unpinned.

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Bleah.

This is why such an initiative is so fraught. We can't even really have a discussion about having a discussion, without suspicion.

What do you think things would look like with actual money on the table? (Shiver)

 

This is probably why star citizen simply took the money and made no promises above and beyond making a stunning game. Otherwise, individual people would have proclaimed their dollars gave them some sort of hand in the decision making process, and soon enough a thousand cats would be straining mightily in a million different directions.

 

How about let's table all that, and just work on an outline of what can be agreed on, first.

 

IF we wanted a next gen sim what would be a practical initial wishlist of features, codified to its general essentials? 

 

WHAT existing engine might allow us to reach those goals?

 

WHO in the community with the necessary skills is available to guide and advise?

 

Etc. It doesn't really have to be all that hard, at least not to establish basic principals. Just have to park the egos at the door.

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