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marcus300zx

Poor Airport Info starting to ruin the enjoyment of the game.

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Hi All,

 

I know this game is ancient in Terms of PC Game Age and thus I have happily paid addition monies to look to bring things like the Aircraft and Graphics meshes more upto date.

 

But my simple flight in my Aerosoft Airbus from Paris Orly to Belfast City last night showed the most frustrating aspect of the game for me.

 

I love to fly using IFR so I get the ATC giving me instructions and generally get no biggie issue with this, only with the runways themselves.

 

My flight last night from orly had me assigned to take off from Runway 24 by the ATC.  So to set up the V speeds in the airbus you need to insert the departure runway, but the Airbus MCDU does not have a runway 24 listed.  Its not like some airports where 24 is listed in the plane as 25 due to update magnetic differences, its just not recognised at all.  First time I have had this issue so minor compared to the next one.

 

ILS landing info tends to really ruin it for me, especially after flying for 3 hours only to find the ILS wants to land your aircraft at a 30 degree angle to the runways or in the case of Belfast when I activated Approach Mode the plane flew left, then right, then left etc like a snake but at no time even though LOC was captured did it actually fly directly towards the runway (on 2nd landing attempt had to give up on CAT111 auto land and switch of AP to land Manually)

 

Lots of companies out there develop and make money from various add-ons, but I just cant fine one which sorts out the ILS, Glideslopes, Active Runways or that seems to have the Database that can match the one in your aircraft.

 

Am I missing something or is there nothing out there

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I've noticed this issue alot too. I see it alot with the default style radios. It acts like its trying to find the LOC "envelope". Its kind of a pain for me too.

 

I do know at one point and time, ( though i cant find the link) there was a sight out there where you could download updated airport data with update freqs. and runway data.

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One of the best things about the Aerosoft Airbus is that you done have to try and work out what the current Course or Frequency is for the runway as you put in the runway you are landing at and it inputs all the info itself and 99% of the time lands itself on the runway.

 

However, if I fly my phenom or Avro even using the web for current course info (FSX ones on the map are hopeless) I am lucky to get it on the runway 50% of the time using ILS landing

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Hi Marcus,  I have also experienced similar problems. Landing the beautiful C17 globemaster in Lisbon airport I found that the plane on autoland tends to come down just next to  runway 3 as this was the chosen rwy. I, don't understand why this happens as I land with PMDG's and aerosoft's aircraft without  problems. I retried to land after saving just before and out of three times managed only once right. It's really annoying.  Happy landings, like they say!

 

Cheers.

 

john 

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Hi Marcus,  I have also experienced similar problems. Landing the beautiful C17 globemaster in Lisbon airport I found that the plane on autoland tends to come down just next to  runway 3 as this was the chosen rwy. I, don't understand why this happens as I land with PMDG's and aerosoft's aircraft without  problems. I retried to land after saving just before and out of three times managed only once right. It's really annoying.  Happy landings, like they say!

 

Cheers.

 

john 

 

 

The reason for this is the RW runway and NAV data changes. In the US theres a few 10ths of a degree in Magnetic shift a year. If you AC has "newer" data than FSX, (or older) its accounting for this shift. A good way to figure this out is look at the RW charts HDG for the ILS and then look in FSX's default GPS for the HDG, if they're different, then autoland gets screwed up.

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I landed at LHBP Ferihegy the other day in my phenom and literally the ILS aimed me at a 30 degree approach across the runway rather than actually down it.  I think it was runway 13R.  I used a programme that allows you to see the actual glide slope and it showed it to be completely mis-aligned to the runway.  The Glidescope for the paralell 13L though was spot on

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Hello;

 

Ive had this problem at certain airport,there's a site,where you can download updated info for Updated Magnetic variation data for FS2004 & FSX-P3D,just do a google search.Also remember to back up your original files.

 

Mark

 

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I have never used ILS for landings, but I have seen that "left and right like a snake" motion performed by a few AI planes in the past. They were generally removed from my system at that point :BigGrin:

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Guys,

 

Runway numbers change periodically due to magnetic shifts.  FSX Default airports were (more or less) accurate back when it was originally released (more to tell on that, but it's really not germane), however the Aerosoft Airbus was released with NavData from this year.  The end result is that the runways (and sometimes the LOC/ILS Frequencies) in the FMS is for this year rather than many years ago.

 

The easiest way to resolve this is to use AFCAD updates from the AVSIM library. You can also search for them at FlightSim.com and also HERE.  If you still can't find an update, try a simple Google search using the airport name OR ICAO.  The aforementioned sites provide free AFCADs, however you can also purchase payware airports.

 

There is a CAVEAT to this. The worst way one can add scenery to FSX is to simply place the scenery or AFCAD straight into the Addon Scenery sub-folders ("scenery" and "texture") as quite a number of scenery and/or AFCAD authors have indicated to do in their installation instructions. The result of doing this is that eventually you'll have trouble knowing or remembering what is installed and in some cases where it is installed, making future updates problematic.

 

Not to worry, there is a VERY simple solution! 

 

STEP A. Create a Folder and name it for the airport/location starting with the Airport ICAO (Boston-Logan would be KBOS), followed by the authors name (last name if the first name is long) and month-date.  EXAMPLE: "KBOS R.Smith 06-2012". This tells you at a glance what is installed, who created it and when it was created, making updates a LOT easier and preventing all sorts of problems by having more than one scenery or AFCAD installed at the same time.

 

STEP B. Inside your newly created folder, create two sub-folders inside your newly created folder, one named "scenery" and the other "texture" (using small caps will follow the FSX folder naming convention). 

 

STEP C.  Place you're updated airport information in the scenery folder and any custom textures in the "texture" folder. The author's instructions would tell you which files to move where, the only difference being that you'll move them to your Custom Airport Folder created in Step A instead of the "scenery" and "texture" folders inside the Addon Scenery folder.

 

STEP D. Place your Custom Airport Folder anywhere you wish (even inside the Addon Scenery folder), and use the FSX Scenery Manager to activate the scenery.

 

YOU"RE done, and will have avoided complicating your scenery library and a lot of problems that come with having multiple files for the same airport.  Do this a few times and you'll be a pro and it will take you no time at all to accomplish.

 

I hope this helps.

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Hi again guys, all good and well, all the posts are very valid with good advice and/or info, but what concerns the C-17 I cannot understand why out of 3 landings 1 was perfect middle of the rwy and 2 next to it with the same values being fed in. Furthermore, guys, pmdg's planes are spot on on the same airport and same rwy. Could it be that they using FSX's values for the runways? Occasionally you do get something going wrong but only in remote countries' airports.  Perhaps DaveCT's replacement of files in FSX is the best to do but I wouldn't advise anyone without good knowledge of computers to do it.  You could make things worst.

    Thanks guys.

    

    Regards.

 

    John

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If have the same thing, my Aerosoft Airbus will land smack bang in the middle of the runway on autoland, but using the same course and the same frequency as the airbus in my phenom or even the Avro RJ will not.

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Just down load ADE - Airport Design Editor - Its free take you all of ten minutes to check if ILS is incorrect realign it and update any incorrect freq.

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Perhaps DaveCT's replacement of files in FSX is the best to do but I wouldn't advise anyone without good knowledge of computers to do it. You could make things worst.

 

 

John,

 

What I described is likely the single most common addon to FS9, FSX, or P3D.  It is merely adding scenery (in the form of an AFCAD) via the Scenery Library, and can be just as easily removed. The bulk of my advice is based on formatting the AFCAD files.  Additionally, it appears you may believe the AFCAD files permanently replace the default scenery. This is not the case, the original files are never touched and will be active when the AFCAD file is deactivated or removed.

 

I realize you were only trying to help those who may read this thread (now and in the future), but you're warning is not warranted.

 

I hope the information I shared is able to help.

 

Best wishes.

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Keep in mind that IRL, ILS alignment is 100% controlled by how the antennas are physically sited.  The ILS has no dependence on any magnetic variation.  Likewise in the sim, the ILS functions totally based on data encoded in the airport facility data.  If you look at an FAA instrument approach chart, the final approach "course" value that is listed is for convenience of the pilot, has nothing to do with how the ILS operates.  That listed "course" will be periodically updated via chart revision.  In looking at many FSX airports over the years I would guess > 99% ILS are positioned and aligned correctly.  The biggest change from default is new runways and in a few cases changed frequencies.  Probably the most common problem is that most default ILS are set up with "back course" enabled, and you can pick up the backcourse localizer.  IRL the majority of localizers today use "log-periodic" antennas, and very little power is radiated in the backcourse direction.

 

Should also note that in the US, the "standard service volume" for a localizer extends out to 18 nm (at altitude) and in most other locations 25nm.  That isn't really modeled in FSX and you often receive localizer in the sim when you wouldn't be able to IRL.

 

For testing purposes I use the default Baron in slew mode and you can accurately see how the localizer aligns and also the glideslope height over the threshold.  If it works in the Baron but not in some other aircraft, I would look at the aircraft functioning first before I blame the ILS.

 

Note that M. Herve Sors has done the community a tremendous service with his navdata updates for FSX/P3D.  http://www.aero.sors.fr/

 

He

scott s.

.

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Note that M. Herve Sors has done the community a tremendous service with his navdata updates for FSX/P3D.  http://www.aero.sors.fr/

 

+1, great service indeed, just don't use the default map or flight planner. But who does that anymore anyway?:)

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The changed Runway number should have no effect on the ILS as they are ground based and not dependant on magnetic heading that much. In the FMS I see that sometimes I am looking for Runway 10 and the FMS says Runway 11 -- but I guess that's why I am the pilot (lol).

 

The only time I see lots of offset issues is when I have a LDA approach or a Sidestep approach.

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check out "ILS Inspector" on aero.sors website .

 

sorry cant add more, deleted previous post by mistake , and cant work out how to add a link, currently busy completing some setup, this forum used to be easier to edit back in 2006 when I joined, now cant figure how to paste weblink here.

 

And just manage to delete lengthy post I made before this, cause the edit screen here seems too unintuitive to me, or not just my style,

 

shorter message this  

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Hi, good lessons from people in the know, like Scott and DaveCT. But I still ask why planes A, B and C land 100% following ILS, bla , bla, and one plane misses it?  Could it be that something is not accurate on one of the planes? Well we should maybe try harder...

 

Cheers.

 

john

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Don't know if this is related, but I am experiencing this mis-alignment sometimes when using the Saitek MultiPanel. It is not every time, but now and then the values of course and heading in the cockpit are at least 30 degrees off to what is shown on the external controller. This probably is an issue with the driver software, but it could also be, that for some reason the numbers and arrows displayed in the cockput are not in synch with the associated simulator variables. Slim chance, I know, just curious.

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Hi, good lessons from people in the know, like Scott and DaveCT. But I still ask why planes A, B and C land 100% following ILS, bla , bla, and one plane misses it?  Could it be that something is not accurate on one of the planes? Well we should maybe try harder

John, t's not rocket science. If Plane A and Plane B use the default FSX/P3D navigation data, they will work as expected.

 

If however Plane C is using a custom navigation database (Navigraph, etc.) then it may or may not work since the data it uses does not match up 100% with the sim's data!

 

It really is not more complicated than that! :Nerd:

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how do we then deal with addons that  already come with custom data.

 

how do we roll them back to fsx.

 

for example pmdg, fligh1 gtn etc

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