Without 1/2 refresh rate vsync P3D will never be as smooth as FSX.

 

Finally the truth, the only important thing.

Finally the truth, the only important thing.

That's why I'm repeating this yet some people are constantly derailing the conversation into the realm of subjective perception, FPS counters, what some like or don't like, what's the meaning of smooth, fluid etc. What Rob said about FPS and monitor Hz a couple of pages back is how it is. Sadly if you want to achieve this you either should not use any addons (aircraft, airports) and constantly achieve 60FPS or you need 30Hz monitor which are not common. So, for the majority of P3D users, under current conditions, P3D is not and will not be fluid. Smooth yes (if you consider this by not having major stutters) but not fluid like FSX with 1/2 thing. Just look sideways when taking off in FSX and than in P3D and you'll see what I mean.

After reading every post in this topic, I can conclude one thing.. Which is, that every simmer has his own sim ,(obviously) and accordingly, they get results only catered to their actual pc setup.. In other words, Look for settings that make YOU enjoy flying.. No one's gonna hate you for locking frames or not.. Just use what suits you the best! Topic's been a great read. It's funny how many opinions and methods you guys have, and at the end we're all running the same sim haha..  cheers!

 

 

Sadly if you want to achieve this you either should not use any addons (aircraft, airports) and constantly achieve 60FPS or you need 30Hz monitor which are not common. So, for the majority of P3D users, under current conditions, P3D is not and will not be fluid.

 

I'll disagree with you here ... 30Hz monitors are common for 4K res and 4K res monitors continue to plummet in price (saw one for $299 the other day) and as such are being used more and more by flight simmers.  But if you turn OFF the graphics features in P3D that aren't in FSX (tessellation, volumetric fog, cloud shadows, HDR, volumetric waves, etc.), I think you'll be more than able to hit 60 FPS for a 60 Hz monitor with add-ons.

 

The issue is one of misunderstanding how graphics processing works ... some users think that because their FSX is smooth on their existing hardware that P3D will be even smoother on their existing hardware because it's "newer" software using a more modern graphics API (DX11) ... some folks often ignore those new graphic features and how they impact performance ... primarily because those new graphics features are subtle (lighting, shadows, volumetric, tess, etc.).  Many just check every option and set everything to max because that's what they did in FSX and it was ok ... not realizing how some of those things they've checked have huge performance implications.  For example Volumetric fog is a 3 pass process (meaning it renders the scene 3 times before moving onto the next process in the graphics pipeline).

 

So what's the point in having P3D look similar to FSX if one has to disable the new features of P3D so their hardware runs well ... simple, you now have the opportunity to purchase a better GPU and/or CPU and be able to enable those new features in P3D ... it's an option you don't have with FSX.

 

Now with that said, there is always room for optimization and improvement, and P3D is being improved and will continue to be improved.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I'll disagree with you here ... 30Hz monitors are common for 4K res and 4K res monitors continue to plummet in price (saw one for $299 the other day) and as such are being used more and more by flight simmers.  But if you turn OFF the graphics features in P3D that aren't in FSX (tessellation, volumetric fog, cloud shadows, HDR, volumetric waves, etc.), I think you'll be more than able to hit 60 FPS for a 60 Hz monitor with add-ons.

 

The issue is one of misunderstanding how graphics processing works ... some users think that because their FSX is smooth on their existing hardware that P3D will be even smoother on their existing hardware because it's "newer" software using a more modern graphics API (DX11) ... some folks often ignore those new graphic features and how they impact performance ... primarily because those new graphics features are subtle (lighting, shadows, volumetric, tess, etc.).  Many just check every option and set everything to max because that's what they did in FSX and it was ok ... not realizing how some of those things they've checked have huge performance implications.  For example Volumetric fog is a 3 pass process (meaning it renders the scene 3 times before moving onto the next process in the graphics pipeline).

 

So what's the point in having P3D look similar to FSX if one has to disable the new features of P3D so their hardware runs well ... simple, you now have the opportunity to purchase a better GPU and/or CPU and be able to enable those new features in P3D ... it's an option you don't have with FSX.

 

Now with that said, there is always room for optimization and improvement, and P3D is being improved and will continue to be improved.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I don't want to argue with you Rob but I disagree. I have i7 4790k @ 4.5 and GTX 970 and there's no way I can achieve 60 FPS with addon airplane on addon airport. Not many people can do that in my opinion. On the other hand I can achieve steady 30 but because there's no 1/2 refresh rate vsync it's nowhere near as smooth as FSX at the same FPS. I don't have statistics on what monitors people use for simming but I'd bet good money that 4K ain't in majority. In the future probably but not now.

So, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I still consider P3D far better option than FSX and agree with your other comments, I'll stick with P3D but I really miss the good ol' days when 1/2 refresh rate vsync worked in simulator I use to practice flying.

 

 

I have i7 4790k @ 4.5 and GTX 970 and there's no way I can achieve 60 FPS with addon airplane on addon airport.

 

If you disable Tessellation, Volumetric Fog, Cloud Shadows, HDR, Wave = Medium and you can't get 60 FPS with your hardware (which is certainly more than able) at an add-on airport with add-on aircraft, then I think something else might be at play ... with my other PC (3960x @ 4.6Ghz and a 970) I have no problem hitting 60 FPS (usually about 90 FPS in VC) with those graphics settings above disabled even at 4K res.  If you give me your exact graphics settings (assume you don't use NI for SGSS AA) I can certainly emulate on my other PC.

 

But more often than not, these 60 fps performance debates usually end up being more than just two add-ons (airport/aircraft) ... it's more like 10 add-ons and all of those add-ons configured with very high settings (ASN 10 cloud layers and enchanced overcast, MT6 or UT2 at 90% traffic, detail ORBX region, Orbx Vector everything checked, REX 4K textures, etc. etc.)

 

For every add-on one adds, complex processing like Tessellation, cloud shadows, HDR, volumetric fog has much more work to do as it now has to take into account 10 cloud layers, many more vector roads and traffic and shadows for that traffic, more aircraft etc. etc.

 

Not really trying to argue/debate with you, trying to help you realize 60 FPS with your hardware.

 

I agree, it would be nice to see 1/2 refresh rate trick work in P3D.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I stand by my list, especially Step 4:

 

 

4. If FPS are not near monitor's refresh rate, purchase newer hardware or choose a different simulator if you want to increase the graphics settings. If you are happy with what you have or have FPS of 60, proceed to step 5.

 

So many people are trying to squeeze blood from a stone with their hardware.

If you disable Tessellation, Volumetric Fog, Cloud Shadows, HDR, Wave = Medium and you can't get 60 FPS with your hardware (which is certainly more than able) at an add-on airport with add-on aircraft, then I think something else might be at play ... with my other PC (3960x @ 4.6Ghz and a 970) I have no problem hitting 60 FPS (usually about 90 FPS in VC) with those graphics settings above disabled even at 4K res.  If you give me your exact graphics settings (assume you don't use NI for SGSS AA) I can certainly emulate on my other PC.

 

But more often than not, these 60 fps performance debates usually end up being more than just two add-ons (airport/aircraft) ... it's more like 10 add-ons and all of those add-ons configured with very high settings (ASN 10 cloud layers and enchanced overcast, MT6 or UT2 at 90% traffic, detail ORBX region, Orbx Vector everything checked, REX 4K textures, etc. etc.)

 

For every add-on one adds, complex processing like Tessellation, cloud shadows, HDR, volumetric fog has much more work to do as it now has to take into account 10 cloud layers, many more vector roads and traffic and shadows for that traffic, more aircraft etc. etc.

 

Not really trying to argue/debate with you, trying to help you realize 60 FPS with your hardware.

 

Cheers, Rob.

It's probably more of a question what we are thinking about when we say addon aircraft and airports.  :wink:  They can be very different, from light GA to NGX and Aerosoft Airbus, on a small regional airport or big mega airport. Of course if I use light stuff and turn everything off and don't use any other addons I can get 60. When P3D started up after a clean install and using recommended settings which P3D automatically set I got around 80 FPS. But I don't see a point in using a sim where I have to turn everything off and don't use addons I purchased. Of course I use ASN (not with excessive settings you mentioned, rather default), ORBX regions, ORBX Vector (with settings you recommended on your website), REX (with 512 textures) and even that I have MT6 I don't use it because on a UK2000 airport with Aerosoft Airbus even with 20% traffic FPS dips to low 20's, without it it stays around 30. I don't use NVI profile.

I'll try to turn off everything you're suggesting to see what happens.

 

I agree, it would be nice to see 1/2 refresh rate trick work in P3D.

 

That's the point I'm trying to make the whole time, as a direct response to OP. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

That's the point I'm trying to make the whole time, as a direct response to OP. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Best place to petition for 1/2 refresh trick in Window mode is probably nVidia ... P3D supports multiple monitors and as such can't operate "exclusive mode" window because each monitor uses a borderless window to render the scene ... so by definition they are no longer exclusive.  DX11 doesn't operate the same as DX9 when it comes to exclusive mode window.

 

You could debate what about people that don't have multiple monitors, they should have the option to run exclusive mode window ... the answer to that is not simple ... it would require considerable code (with high probability of breaking changes) for DX11 to be have two code paths for Exclusive single monitor use and non-exclusive multi-monitor use.  So I can understand LM's decision to reduce code paths and stay in a non-exclusive mode of operation for multi-monitor support which also covers single monitor support.

 

But let me know how it went on the FPS front when you disable those P3D specific options not available in FSX ... I'm curious to see what your FPS is ... mine is well above 60 FPS in all situations when I disable those graphics options ... regardless of add-ons being used, but it does make P3D look very FSX like.

 

Cheers, Rob.

Rob,

About multi monitors : please keep reminding LM on the Distortion Fix ( anti fish eye ) ...

Denali wrote a while back that he would give his Distortion Fix to LM as a base.

Gerard,

 

I would love to help, but having me report this issue to LM, when I have no actual experience with the issue, wouldn't really get very far and probably would only end up in confusing the potential issue.  

 

But most important, I don't have any say at all in what LM decide to address ... I report my findings with specific details, scenario files, settings files, video, steps to replicate, using base no-add setup or with 3rd party, etc. etc. -- I could NOT do that in this case and if asked for more info I would not be able to provide it since I don't have or use multi-monitors.

 

Denali, You, or others would need to present the issue on LM's public forums (if you haven't already) ... contrary to popular belief they do monitor those forums and respond.  When reporting issues it can be a time consuming process pending the issue (I often spend 3 or more hours just presenting the issue AFTER I've discovered it) ... this is what I would recommend for you, Denali, etc.:

 

1.  Use a base no add-on P3D V2.5 12946

2.  Provide Graphics Configuration set (.cfg)

3.  Provide a scenario file (.fxml)

4.  List the steps to replication the issue 

5.  Provide video or screenshots that will help demonstrate the issue

6.  Provide hardware specifics (CPU, GPUs, Monitors used, resolutions, driver versions used, and how drivers are configured etc.)

 

Performing the steps above will have a much higher probability of being addressed, but STILL no guarantee it will be addressed.

 

Cheers, Rob.

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=109794

 

gb.

Good, so LM is already aware and Beau did respond ... so not exactly sure what my role is here?

 

Cheers, Rob.

Good, so LM is already aware and Beau did respond ... so not exactly sure what my role is here?

 

Cheers, Rob.

Rob,

 

It is just that everyone who reminds LM about the Distortion issue might help getting it solved...

Denali wrote here at Avsim that he would sent his findings to LM so they could see what he already had done.

And has LM als has a triple monitor cockpit they could use that one to test.

 

More and more people start using multimonitor for gaming in general and for P3D .

Several games already have a plugin that corrects the fisheye effect.

 

Imho , an education program like P3D would benefit a lot from it as more people using FSX/FSX-SE would step over if P3D would have a distortion fix.

 

Regards,

Gerard

Hi, you guys want smoothness? Just try the Embraer 170/195 from Feelthere. It runs extremely smooth, I would think on most rigs.

 

john goncalves