If another outside influence deletes or modifies YOUR folders or files, that's called hacking and is  I believe illegal.

Ok... your post kinda wanders a bit... so maybe I missed something, but... I think that if the L-M uninstaller deletes all files/folders inside of it's install path... that's not hacking nor illegal.

Developers will have to make the choice... and you get to decide if you enjoy reinstalling your addons, repeatedly... over and over, for every single point release.

 

L-M made the changes so you wouldn't have to do that... and there really is not a valid reason for a developer to be installing into the core sim with v3 and beyond.

 

I'm a developer and I can tell you that I plan on adhering to the SDK.

 

Well ED I go a bit further, If I was LM I would enforce the SDK install routine from V3 onwards not a recommendation ;-)

 The point of the post is to get people to understand it ain't that easy for the 3PD's - that's you isn't it? , but - the LM uninstaller and FSX uninstaller, and previous versions do not remove files that aren't  "theirs", or the folder if there are files remaining in it (the un-removed third party for example)  the same applies for any uninstaller. For that matter, the P3D or FSX installers do not delete non-core sim files  If you do an uninstall the add-on is still there and if you reinstall it's also still there.  The need to re-install add-ons is where the sim installer or updater has "reverted" files that the 3PD modded on it's install - like REX/OrbX textures, or many .dlls.  

 

As said only "own" files should be removed - anything else is yours, not LM.  LM do not own the filesystem, that's an MS thing and it's your PC.  (A lot of my professional work life was involved with copyright and software ownership in software and systems services).  Yes, files get removed accidentally but if deliberate and not part of the actual software being removed, then it would be classed as malicious.  Think malware, no different.  LM or any developer/installer or whatever only "own" their data, they don't own the filesystem , they use it.   Files that aren't LM's are yours  (or another 3PD's of course).  The disk space is yours. That's why, if you look at say P3D  2.5 folder after an uninstall, if you haven't uninstalled some P3D add-ons, you'll find e.g. all the orbx textures in the various texture folders, add-on souds and gauges in their folders, FSUIPC in the modules folder.  All the dll.xml and exe.xml is still there.  All the 3PD own .dll is still there.  think about it - if you accidentally stored some important files in the P3D file structure - and an uninstall of P3D deleted them, you'd have a very good case. As you would have if Apple bricked your phone because you jailbroke

 

Whatever, if it's got people understanding . .  but trust me (I've been a salesman as well)    The truth is/might be out there . . .   interesting isn't it?    :wink:

Not more - (why can't I get the quote mechanism working - must be my security . . .)  I'd be interested how you'd  "enforce" an install routine  :smile:   You can't stop someone writing an installer that's not SDK compliant  - maybe you could enforce by buyer power, if xxx doesn't write compliant installer/structure add-ons,  you don't purchase.   Y-e-ess.   There's those    s  flying by again!   And I'm for the external structure . . .

!

Anyway - see ED's later post about not bothering if nobody else does and contacting LM with the question.   That's enough     's advocate for tonight 

 

A lot of space could be saved if some sceneries were only one copy instead of one in each  sim

I can assure you that no software company is liable for deletion inside their own folders. That just really wouldn't hold up in any court one bit.

 

The real reason uninstallers don't delete all of the things you mention is because the installer's code is written to remove files/folders it installs. It's a design choice, not a legal decision.

 

I can assure you that if L-M chooses to radically change the core folder layout inside their own product... they will delete all contents of said core folder to facilitate proper installation. They currently will and do overwrite core files that may have been replaced by third parties. It's their software... they can do that.

And if that's the case then why all the fuss regarding external to core installers? Worst case seems to be that the user reinstalls the "Third Party Product" for P3D v3 .

No different than currently done w/FSX and P3Dv2. :blink:

And if that's the case then why all the fuss regarding external to core installers? Worst case seems to be that the user reinstalls the "Third Party Product" for P3D v3 .

No different than currently done w/FSX and P3Dv2. :blink:

 

Well or easy think a bit about it Ron, just install in your own company directory outside the P3D root conform SDK.

(which would be fairly easy to change in the installer routine ;-)

Advantage is that with an update or a complete new install your customers don't have to worry about there precious aircraft.and reinstall all there software sometimes gigabytes...

New downloads, bandwidth for just a simple installer update, hence I would even go further update all 3rd party software via one gui....

I know I may wander a bit but I did say exactly that,  they can and do overwrite core files that may have been replaced - and added - that's why the need for re-installs.  The installers code is written to remove the code it installs - quite correct.  It doesn't know about the other files that 3PDs have put in anyway and can't see them.   As for what they can, will, or will not delete, it's all speculation as they don't actually do it and it hasn't happened with any version of P3D or FSX before it.    Unless you've got some direct personal line?   :smile:   Indeed I've never come across an uninstall that removes everything - always leaves at least the data.   Otherwise assure away whatever you want about  it, and you tell us what LM will do or not do.  I'll reserve my judgement.  I know they won't be enforcing the guidelines (yet at least );  Not sure how but if they do and delete my stuff I'm sure I wouldn't sue either . . .

 

Personally I don't actually care a flying whatsit, but would be very unhappy if LM deleted my files.  Yeh, OK, I take the risk.   But whatever, all right, if it makes you happy, you're absolutely right, I'm totally wrong, I know nothing and  my 45 years knowledge and experience all rubbish.  Don't know what they paid me for.    time.   OK with that?   Let's leave the subject . . .

 

Don't really understand why you're arguing off subject though.  The point of this thread was compatibility, the new recommendations and compatibility with them.  So far people seem to argue both ways.  My post was to say the new structure is possible, it works and I've used it, but also to say I see the problems for some 3PDs (i.e. people like yourself) and sympathise with them.  We seem to have got side-tracked.   Now you're a developer and first you said you'd definitely comply, then you said if others don't, why bother.  What I'd really like to know is if you had any answer from LM.   I did on a similar one.  Your mileage may vary.  So which way is Mindstar going?

Well or easy think a bit about it Ron, just install in your own company directory outside the P3D root conform SDK.

(which would be fairly easy to change in the installer routine ;-)

Advantage is that with an update or a complete new install your customers don't have to worry about there precious aircraft.and reinstall all there software sometimes gigabytes...

New downloads, bandwidth for just a simple installer update, hence I would even go further update all 3rd party software via one gui....

You think about it Andre. I'm speaking in full context with the thread, and others who've posted to the effect that if LM hoses your newly created. outside the "core" path for whatever reason then users still have the old reinstall chore to do....

 

I've not made a choice yet and have no dog in the fight at all. Building an installer for either path is not such a difficult process as to get our shorts in a knot... :wink:

Installers do what we tell them to do, and they can indeed delete everything in a folder. I said they do what they do by design, not limitation.

 

Yes, lots of people toss out their 'experience' to make claims of superiority. On the internet it happens all the time. In the real world they're called politicians. :smile:

 

I created the thread... I'm fairly certain I know the point.

 

I have an answer from L-M. They want and expect compliance with their new installation requirements. They know change is difficult, but they also know it's necessary.

With Prepar3D v3 from Lockheed-Martin being released today, I think it might be time to point out a few conditions of 'compatibility' that need to be revealed to the simming public:

 

1 - If a given addon installs anywhere inside the core Prepar3D folder structure, it's not compatible.

2 - If you need to use something like the Estonia Migration Tool to install, it's not compatible.

 

Believe it or not, if you ensure the addons you install to v3 are compatible... it will prevent you from having to reinstall addons when L-M releases point release updates to v3.

 

So, talk to your addon providers and encourage them to adhere to the v3 addon installation process correctly so that in the end, everyone will be happy.

 

This message brought to you by the letter 'Y' and the number '12'.

Quoted here because it coincides with the LM answer received by Ed in his latest post.

I came to the thread late and can only say that we'll comply with LM suggestions simply because it will make life easier in the future for all involved. :wink:

Seems like if LM was going to simply deltree the whole P3D install folder they would just say so, and we would be done with the discussion. 

Sounds like a simple end to back and forth's.

 

They haven't offered that explanation. (yet?)  

Much ado about nothing...that's what we get for joining the thread late. :wink:

Quoted here because it coincides with the LM answer received by Ed in his latest post.

I came to the thread late and can only say that we'll comply with LM suggestions simply because it will make life easier in the future for all involved. :wink:

 

Thanks for sharing Ron appreciated and logic for me ;-)

In an ideal world, the developers/publishers would follow LM's recommendation. But as we see (with PMDG, ASN, A2A, Aerosoft, FSDREAMTEAM, MCE, FSUIPC and others) this will not happen in the near future.

 

Birdmanmike is fully right in what he states. This is the reason why I make a full backup of the P3D default folder and .cfg files. In case of an update, I can synchronize the files and see what has changed and make the necessary amendments.

 

Personally, I have all my addon sceneries outside the P3D V3 root folder and changed the scenery.cfg respectively. The complex aircrafts, however, are sitting in the root folder, but honestly you just have to copy the relevant files / folders from V2 into V3 and everythings work like a charm (without the need to change anything in the registry).