Automation taken takes over no need for humans, birds, c-172, muscle cars to drive. Just shut up and be happy everything done for you!

Huh? I have no idea what you mean in this post. Truthfully I rarely understand any of your posts I've read through the years and I am guessing English is not your native language, but this one had me stumped.

 

I must say though, for someone who doesn't speak English as their native language, you do pretty well, but this one got me.

Automation is all about control and people are naive about its consquences. Automation is something that will be abused without checks and balances to allow individual freedom. People are naive and too trusting of automation and general aviation will go the way of dodo bird.

If I read gizmosellsbunnys correctly, he's afraid that once vehicle automation comes out then there'd be some government effort to ban manual operation. Given that we've had autopilots for decades, there's no restriction on manual flying or GA operation. Additionally, he can still drive his treasured muscle cars (although IMO anything without a catalytic converter these days should be banned from public roads). I don't see that changing.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

If I read gizmosellsbunnys correctly, he's afraid that once vehicle automation comes out then there'd be some government effort to ban manual operation. Given that we've had autopilots for decades, there's no restriction on manual flying or GA operation. Additionally, he can still drive his treasured muscle cars (although IMO anything without a catalytic converter these days should be banned from public roads). I don't see that changing.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

Once everything is automated where will people find jobs to pay for the automated devices? Also there are restrictions on manual operations of an aircraft currently. You can't hand fly a plane above FL280 because of RVSM,also I don't think your allowed to hand fly a CATIII approach. I'm old school I'd rather have a Lockheed Connie with control cables than a A380 with fly by wire any day.

We do CAT III hand flown with heads up display guidance on the E190. Autopilot must be off by 500'.

 

People will do whatever the new economy requires people to do. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Even if there ends up being not enough work, nature will eventually balance things out. War, revolution, etc. where thosr with idle hands just end up picking up AK47s or molotov cocktails. Society gets knocked back a few decades, populations get thinned out, and the remainder become productive again rebuilding.

Once everything is automated where will people find jobs to pay for the automated devices?

 

Irrefutable reasoning. Maybe we should ban industrial robots, computers, cars, clothing looms. Can you imagine how many more jobs we'd have?

 

P.S. This post is ironic.

Once everything is automated where will people find jobs to pay for the automated devices?

 

Not too long ago, about 95% of the population was doing one thing - agriculture. If you were to suggest that not too far in the future only 2% of the population would be engaged in this industry, people would predict that we would either all starve, or suffer tremendous disruption with a mass of unemployed people. We got neither.

 

I've been automating things for 25 years. There's never any shortage of things to do - by eliminating easily automated work we open up new possibilities.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

Single Pilot tube..

 

 

Even fully automated robo-planes will have two pilots until the end of the univers.  The number of pilots has less to do with "complex" aircraft these days.. It's more about redundancey/saftey.

 

You know... when the captain has the fish.

 

There will always be two pilots for the same reason people love a Captain with grey hair... The perception of safety and experence > the actual requirment or need.

 

 

Even if the worlds aviation authoritys alow single pilot tubes, all it would take is one tube company to advertise "We have two Pilots!"... and well.. that's the end of that sillyness.

 

Single pilot cargo on the other hand... well that is probably gonna happen.

People would predict that we would either all starve, or suffer tremendous disruption with a mass of unemployed people. We got neither.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

 

We got neither?

 

Nearly 102 million working-age Americans jobless

 

33% of Americans out of workforce, highest rate since 1978

 

The labor force participation rate falls to a 38-year low

 

Food Stamp Beneficiaries Exceed 46,000,000 for 38 Straight Months

 

Another Phony Payroll Jobs Number — Paul Craig Roberts

 

 

Back on course...

 

Ever hear of the "BHUAP" (Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot System)?

Apparently, it's been installed in boeing aircraft since 1995 and every airbus since 1989 but has been kept secret.

 

On December 10, 2006, Field McConnell (Retired Airline Captain) reported the illegal modification on Boeing aircraft to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).  You can read Field McConnell's bio here.

 

You can listen to Field McConnel's interviews about "BHUAP" here:

 

 

 

Interview 975 – Field McConnell Introduces Abel Danger (The Corbettreport)

 

 

 

More infomation on "BHUAP" here:

FLIGHT CONTROL: Boeing’s ‘Uninterruptible Autopilot System’, Drones & Remote Hijacking

 

Evidence of the Hijack of Malaysian Airways Flight MH370 using the Boeing-Honeywell Uninterruptable Autopilot

 

Boeing wins patent on uninterruptible autopilot system

 

Remote Controlled Autopilot Boeing Patent

 

 

 

 

All very interesting......

So, who is really flying "ze plane ze plane" these days?

 

RJ

This sounds like a good idea - it takes control away from the pilots whose tinfoil hats are too tight.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

Interesting thread, and lots of interesting opinions.

 

I think the natural progression is going to be towards single pilot operations for passenger flights, with a gradual shift towards the pilots role being less of a pilot and more of a supervisor.  People are going to want the best of both worlds: the safety that automation may bring, and the confidence that 'one of us' is watching over everything.

 

I would predict this transition to take many decades, however, especially in the western world.

 

That being said, or predicted, I would expect the traditional role of the pilot to last much longer in the more remote areas of the world.  There's just too many areas on the planet still where small scale aviation is the only quick means of outside contact.  Everything from poor landing strips to highly variable weather demands a level of skill (or daring) that will take far more effort and cost to automate, with cost being the likely factor that keeps humans employed for a lot longer.

Not too long ago, about 95% of the population was doing one thing - agriculture. If you were to suggest that not too far in the future only 2% of the population would be engaged in this industry, people would predict that we would either all starve, or suffer tremendous disruption with a mass of unemployed people. We got neither.

 

I've been automating things for 25 years. There's never any shortage of things to do - by eliminating easily automated work we open up new possibilities.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

Not everyone is cut out to be a programmer or engineer nor has the desire to work in an office. If I worked in an office seeing the same place day after day for 40 years it would drive me nuts. Automation is great but at certain point what exactly is the point of it,just to prove you can do it? I had this same discussion with my fiancée's sister last night (she's a programming student)she said that "flying a UAV is the same as flying a real plane and better because it will protect the life of the pilot". I said as somone who is going to be a military pilot I can tell you, I'd rather get shot at than fly a drone. She just didn't get it but she's never flown a plane and has never experienced the thrill of having an aircraft under your command and if you haven't then you'll never understand it.I could have been an engineer and made way more money but I followed my passion for aviation,because going to work with a smile on my face is worth way more a big pay check to me.

Not everyone is cut out to be a programmer or engineer nor has the desire to work in an office. If I worked in an office seeing the same place day after day for 40 years it would drive me nuts. Automation is great but at certain point what exactly is the point of it,just to prove you can do it?

 

Don't think of automation as just computers. Think of it as any tool humans utilize to increase their productivity or reliability. That's what the Industrial Revolution was all about (actually, the Agricultural Revolution was the same thing) and there are plenty of examples today regarding manual labor. Do we build Interstates with a large army of men with picks and shovels? Instead we have a (relatively) small crew with mechanical excavators and explosives.

 

This does have interesting implications as you point out. There's fewer and fewer roles for the truly unskilled.

 

 

I said as somone who is going to be a military pilot I can tell you, I'd rather get shot at than fly a drone. She just didn't get it but she's never flown a plane and has never experienced the thrill of having an aircraft under your command and if you haven't then you'll never understand it.

 

Whether it's thrilling or not, you're speaking as wannabe Second Lieutenant rather than a General. Pilots are extremely expensive and time consuming to train. The Japanese had the most powerful aviation force in the Pacific and a decent carrier fleet until 1945 but what ultimately doomed them was the loss of pilots at Midway and the Solomons. Anything that can reduce the risk for trained pilots is well worth doing. Their "thrill" is irrelevant.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

Whether it's thrilling or not, you're speaking as wannabe Second Lieutenant rather than a General. Pilots are extremely expensive and time consuming to train. The Japanese had the most powerful aviation force in the Pacific and a decent carrier fleet until 1945 but what ultimately doomed them was the loss of pilots at Midway and the Solomons. Anything that can reduce the risk for trained pilots is well worth doing. Their "thrill" is irrelevant.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

I can assure you Erich Hartmann or Chuck Yeager could out fly any remotely piloted aircraft as they would be more situationaly aware and can respond without the delay in communications between the UAV to the- satellite- to the UAV operator and then the whole process back, a 1/10 of a second can make a critical difference in a dog fight. Also what's my will to fight if I'm flying a drone? I have nothing to loose,my buddies lives aren't on the line,nither is mine,so basicly war would be come an expensive game and fighting becomes no different than a game of combat flight simulator. I'd rather stand up to the enemy in person and show him that I'm willing to give my most precious possession, my life for my cause and county. Fighting a war by remote-control sends a message to the enemy that we are either too scared to face him in person or that our beliefs don't mean enough to face a risk for them.

I can assure you Erich Hartmann or Chuck Yeager could out fly any remotely piloted aircraft as they would be more situationaly aware and can respond without the delay in communications between the UAV to the- satellite- to the UAV operator and then the whole process back, a 1/10 of a second can make a critical difference in a dog fight.

 

Probably. 9 times out of 10. Maybe 99 times out of 100. It doesn't matter - in the long run you're either perfect or you're dead. And we're certainly not perfect. When a drone gets shot down, the pilot walks away, learns and gets better. When a human gets shot down, he's lucky to survive.

 

Our reliance on ever more expensive weapons and pilots means that the enemy has a tremendous advantage in a battle of attrition. There's a reason that the first aerial vehicles over Baghdad were cruise missiles. At $1m a pop you can launch 100 of them and still be better off than losing a single fighter. Drones are a rational next step.

 

You, Mr. Flying Ace, will get tired or low on ammunition. There will be more drones. The boring flight phases can be handled via automation or junior operators. You, on the other hand, will need to be on top of your game at all times.

 

 

I'd rather stand up to the enemy in person and show him that I'm willing to give my most precious possession, my life for my cause and country.

 

More than a few infrantrymen said that 100 years ago prior to launching a bayonet charge against a machine gun position. Anyone who's actually seen combat is more than willing to use weapons that can hit the enemy without them hitting you.

 

Luke