DTG: The dawn of a new sim (and the death of the old) ?

[vin747 316]

Future of Flightsims:

 

I'm seriously considering waiting and buying Aerosoft A330, QW 787, etc in the new DTG sim.. the new sim cannot grow until consumers and developers help it grow.. as a community we need to invest in it to help it grow..  

 

but this begs the question - how easy/hard is it for a developer to package their aircraft into a 64-bit application? That will decide if PMDG/Aerosoft/QW will roll out DTG versions of their aircraft in the near future.. it definitely must be a lot easier for airports/sceneries to be migrated.. no dlls there.. unless the tile format is so different.. 

 

the speed of DTG sim growth will depend heavily on how much of the old stuff can be re-used.. we need something to start with.. when they release the new sim in dec, do you think we'll all be waiting for someone to release the first airport and first aircraft? of course not! we need something to get started and that should come from FSX which is the base engine for this sim. 

[swiesma 625]

Give me X-Plane with all addons available for P3D -> this would be the perfect sim for me.

[fs4fun 366]

 

 

but this begs the question - how easy/hard is it for a developer to package their aircraft into a 64-bit application? That will decide if PMDG/Aerosoft/QW will roll out DTG versions of their aircraft in the near future.. it definitely must be a lot easier for airports/sceneries to be migrated.. no dlls there.. unless the tile format is so different.. 

 

Actually the technical ease or difficulty of porting the code is just one part of whether a payware dev will decide to support the platform. It's mostly a business decision and depends on whether the flight sim community accepts the DTG platform and devs think there's a demand for addons.

 

DTG made a clean break in terms of binary compatibility, so addons will at least need to recompile, but we haven't seen the SDK yet so no telling if there's more to it than that.

 

As far as going from 32 bit to 64 bit, the issues there can be tricky, as there can be assumptions in the code about sizes of data types that are not at all obvious. In the longer term switching to 64 bit could influence the software design, how the code is optimized, how memory is managed and so on.

 

I'm assuming P3D is going 64 bit eventually, so if DTG's sim gets there first it might be a good platform for devs to start working on, assuming that there could be quite a lot of code reuse between the platforms.

[Paraffin 2,197]

Actually the technical ease or difficulty of porting the code is just one part of whether a payware dev will decide to support the platform. It's mostly a business decision and depends on whether the flight sim community accepts the DTG platform and devs think there's a demand for addons.

 

The financial arrangements for distribution will also play a role, especially with regard to whether payware developers can distribute independently, or have to go through Steam where there may be additional overhead (i.e. DTG and Valve/Steam taking a cut of the profits). 

 

In the video of the DTG presentation at FlightSimCon posted recently, Steam was touted as being a good way to integrate and install DLC add-ons, compared to the current nightmare of installing add-ons in FSX. That's a very good point. Generally speaking, DLC installation runs very smoothly on Steam. However, it might mean all payware add-on developers will be required to use that distribution channel, which would involve these financial considerations.

 

It may be that DTG waives their percentage for a period of time, in order to beef up the initial DLC planes and scenery. Or maybe the add-on devs will decide that they're reaching such a larger potential audience with Steam, plus not having to run their own additional retail channels, that it's worth the additional overhead on profits. We'll have to see how this works out. 

[fs4fun 366]

Paraffin, very good points. This is my first experience with Steam and so far it's been quite good. Automatically keeping the sim and all addons current would be a dream compared to FSX.

 

I'm worried about what's going to happen for the freeware and hobbyist developer, whether the current free tools like ADE and MCX will be able to work and what 3D modeling tools will be supported. If it's necessary to have $1000's worth of dev tools (eg. 3dsMax or Cinema4D) then we're not going to see much freeware. I'd like to see support for Blender (free) or Fusion360 (which has a free hobby license).

[Heimi 91]

I think the key to success is simple as that:

 

DTG has to release their new Sim at leat at FSX level but with up to date graphics, scenery and database.

 

Everything else beyond for Addon developers will be easy sledding

 

If they can't deliver that it will be doomed.

[torium 207]

Let's speculate:   :smile:

 

I think it might be useful to listen to what Martin (Dovetail) has previously communicated:

 

Dovetail: "The truth is if you are expecting all of that to be in place day one then you will most like be disappointed. It is going to take time and a lot ongoing conversations between us, you the community and the wider world of flight sim developers to build DTG Flight Sim into the new platform we all want it to be."

 

Why? Because Dovetail lack both time and resources (financial/expertise). Therefore Dovetail invites 3rd part developers in their vision. As an example:

 

Dovetail: "We have a great working relationship with Aerosoft Bruno, and over the past 2 years we have made our intentions clear with respect to welcoming and working with developers,..."

 

And then it's obvious what 3rd part developers need:

 

Dovetail: "We will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process.

The key word here is "platform".

 

DTG has to release their new Sim at leat at FSX level but with up to date graphics, scenery and database.

I don't believe it's actually going to happen.

 

Dovetail: "We are interested in seeing what people can do with a next generation flight sim. We want to see what can be, rather than just repeating the cycle of what is."

 

Their vision is not an updated new FSX (recycling).

 

Dovetail: "We want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified so that you can engage and access the experience you want."

 

I think Dovetail will release an updated "DTG Flight School". A modular platform (engine) specially designed for DLC. Which can be expanded as needed.

 

I would not be surprised if DTG FS will be delivered with just the three existing "Flight School"-aircrafts. And I think that 3rd part developers now working on new addons for the upcoming FS.

 

Dovetail are working on:

 

Dovetail: "DTG Flight Sim will be a much more detailed and feature rich sim than the narrow scope of Flight School.

- A more robust and feature rich weather system is planned for DTG Flight Sim.

- Sloped runways", 

etc.

 

Not to forget:

Dovetail: "Sure it could backfire on us but we are aware of the risks and believe this is the right approach to take."

:smile:

[Christopher Low 5,354]

If they want sloped runways, they are going to have to make sure that the AI planes can handle them.

[arsenal82 120]

watch this space

Dtg Martin will start the dtg fs campaign  very soon

and deliver another ball full of hot air very soon again !!

[Rimshot 1,143]

I'll welcome him again   I'm very curious still how the full sim will turn out and looking forward to the interaction with the developer.

[Ted Striker 338]

I didn't find DTG Martin full of hot air, but rather restrained in his comments. All the "hot air" I saw was from other Avsim members that weren't happy with what DTG was proposing/released and wanted something else.  I appreciate Martin and all the developers that have the courage to share their thoughts with this some times rude and disrespectful group.

 

Both the FSX Aces and LM P3D staff initially posted here until they got tired of putting up with it. Those were sad days when they stopped.

 

I imagine DTG had their hands full just converting FSX to 64bit for Flight School and expect they will now begin the process of activating and adding improvements. Besides introducing Flight School as an inexpensive introductory package with ORBX Global for those new to flight simming, I expect it will be used as a testing ground for their new flight sim. I am looking forward to reading Martin's reports.

 

Father Ted

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

I didn't find DTG Martin full of hot air, but rather restrained in his comments. All the "hot air" I saw was from other Avsim members that weren't happy with what DTG was proposing/released and wanted something else.  I appreciate Martin and all the developers that have the courage to share their thoughts with this some times rude and disrespectful group.

 

Both the FSX Aces and LM P3D staff initially posted here until they got tired of putting up with it. Those were sad days when they stopped.

 

I imagine DTG had their hands full just converting FSX to 64bit for Flight School and expect they will now begin the process of activating and adding improvements. Besides introducing Flight School as an inexpensive introductory package with ORBX Global for those new to flight simming, I expect it will be used as a testing ground for their new flight sim. I am looking forward to reading Martin's reports.

 

Father Ted

 

+1 Very well said

[arsenal82 120]

surely dtg has their hand full handling all the complaints they are kindly receiving ! by all those supposed new blood simmers.

[HiFlyer 9,362]

surely dtg has their hand full handling all the complaints they are kindly receiving ! by all those supposed new blood simmers.

It's interesting that at the very same time, Aerofly FS2 is receiving such nice reviews. I wonder if DTGs release of the DA42 will help bring some more positive reactions.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

surely dtg has their hand full handling all the complaints they are kindly receiving ! by all those supposed new blood simmers.

 

I said this in the other thread and I will say it here again: You would think, that because every one of your last 58 posts on Avsim have all been bashing flight school, you would have lost interest and moved on already. Do you even fly a sim? If so, why dont you post in those forums? Instead you continue with your incessant bashing. Is there any particular reason or are you just trolling?