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JLSeagull

DTG: The dawn of a new sim (and the death of the old) ?

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As per many others on here, I have read the initial text from DTG about their forthcoming release of 'Flight School' (to be followed later in the year by the full-blown 'Flight Sim'), and I am genuinely puzzled - in that they appear to claim that they have cracked the mythological 64bit barrier that has been the bane of the original ESP since the year dot?

 

If (and there is no reason to question their statement), they have indeed created a 64bit Sim then I supect that us 'Old-Schoolers' might just become a thing of the past and that we are about to enter a whole new world of financial pain.

 

LM have an ongoing (albeit dedicated 32bit-oriented) commercial interest that will yield the profits that they seek from the specific market that they originally targeted with their product.

 

DTG have a DLC-oriented market that funds future projects and have publicly stated that they are "in this for the long term".  It strikes me, reading between the lines, that they HAVE listened, HAVE discussed the market and HAVE decided that future DLC for a Flight Sim that performs on a 64bit platform, on modern hardware, (plus one for the conspiracy theorists -  that is currently supported by ongoing Microsoft developments in dx technology), will self-fund any future development costs of the said Sim?  

 

The old adage "Be Careful What You Wish For" might just have come Full Circle here Gentlemen.

 

This time next year we may all be gloriously amnesiac about P3D/FSX/SE and be shelling out a lot of cash on individual DLC Aircraft, Airports, Regions, Areas et.al. from DTG?

 

Dare I say it - Discuss?

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This time next year we may all be gloriously amnesiac about P3D/FSX/SE and be shelling out a lot of cash on individual DLC Airports, Regions, Areas et.al. from DTG?

 

It's probably waaay too early to read a lot into what this new sim will be like. As far as DLC we do that now. Addon airports. ORBX regions et al.

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And this topic really has nothing to do with Prepar3D. Can we please keep this forum on topic, and discuss DTG's offerings in the Hanger Chat forum?

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It's probably waaay too early to read a lot into what this new sim will be like. As far as DLC we do that now. Addon airports. ORBX regions et al.

I concur with you Mike on that point but - P3D/FSX et.al. are complete sims. We buy the dlc's to suit our own whims and preferences. What happens though if DTG release a 'limited area / limited aircraft etc.,etc., sim and then charge for the extras?  That adds up to an awful lot of money.  I KNOW that in the end it will be down to individual choice.... exactly as it is now .... but just consider the financial thinking behind this move by DTG.

 

If, as is their stated aim "to make flight simulation easier to access" then they are looking at a potential market worth billions.

 

If 1+1=2 then it is probably 2.

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DTG makes money selling add ons and that will be their focus with the new flight sim, 32 or 64 bit. Keep your credit card handy, you will need it. 

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I, as someone who has spent a fair amount of £ on FSX and TrainSim, know that these are expensive hobbies. Now, I have my gripes with Dovetails Trainsim, and most of them are the trains are not "harcore" (for lack of a better word) for me. But, the fact that trains and routes are DLC's is not different, in terms of money out of my account, to EZDok, PMGD, A2A, ActiveSky, ORBX....list goes on. It's no different. It's money going somewhere. There are arguments to say that DLC's to X company is worse for "the small man/women developers" then X money to Y company (FS2Crew, A2A etc), but I will leave those discussions aside for this post. That is a valid discussions, but one that is not important at this junction. People seam to complain they charge for DLC's, yet we all happily pay for ActiveSky, PMDG, A2A. Aerosoft....it's a DLC, just under a different name.

 

If DoveTail release, what is essentially FSX, but 64Bit, DX11 and some more bells and whistles, great. Eff'in great. Not only is that the new lease of life for the flight sim world, it also gives us competition to the two "up to date" sims of XPlane and P3D. Competition is healthy and fantastic for us, as consumers. I look forward to this, even if I don't spend any money with DT for the near future, it forces competition, it forces XP and LM to push further. That, for us, is great.

 

For me, Trainsim has it's flaws, but I like it. I WISH trains where more realistic. JustTrains release a train that was, from what I've seen, the most in-depth train, which is the Railjet Advanced. But, if we look at FSX:Steam, they are going to third-parties and getting them on board and in that sense, making the right decision.

 

My only fear, is their development team is not good enough. Why be a games developer in Chatham (I grew up near there, it's a ###### hole) when you could work in London on much, muuuccch more money. That's my fear. But, I sit here waiting to see my fears be destroyed

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What happens though if DTG release a 'limited area / limited aircraft etc.,etc., sim and then charge for the extras?  That adds up to an awful lot of money.  I KNOW that in the end it will be down to individual choice.... exactly as it is now .... but just consider the financial thinking behind this move by DTG.

This is literally no different than it already is. We have tons of DLC choices for FSX/P3D and a complete world of default scenery. It's already been confirmed that Flight School will have have the entire world as well. So as far as default content, we should be good minus aircraft choices (initially).

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I don't think they will force everything through steam, they didn't with FSX steam edition.I think DTG is smart enough to realise that and I think they know how our community would react if they tried to cut out companies like PC Aviator,Simmarket,or our favorite addon devs. I think they will offer addons via steam but not force us to go that route.

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I don't think they will force everything through steam, they didn't with FSX steam edition.I think DTG is smart enough to realise that and I think they know how our community would react if they tried to cut out companies like PC Aviator,Simmarket,or our favourite addon devs

 

Agreed. Don't bite the feed that will hand you, in the coming months/years. They are not stupid. In general, stupid people don't make profit, and that is their aim, like everyone else

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I would have to second that. You can be sure they will be very careful. If we simmers dont like what we see, the current offerings we fly will still do since we invested in them. The goal will be to entice us to move over. The second biggest goal will be to get devs in the game. Lets say it is released by years end. What will it have for aircraft? Will there be a PMDG or Aerosoft type aircraft? What about all the detailed airports we now have around the world? extra landclass, mesh, weather engines. I kinda doubt it could be developed that fast assuming the 3PDs are suddenly going to put their resources into it. I kinda doubt all those things are default and satisfactory as well.  Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. If it is backwards compatible for whatever reason, that kinda leaves me to believe alot of the inherent flaws and limitations within FSX/P3D would be still in place. If it is, then theres the question of converting current aircraft to 64bit.  Lots and lots of questions. At least we have 10 or so months to speculate.

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I think 64bit kills a lot of add-ons out the box, but given that they have third parties on board for FSX:S makes me think they have prepared them under NDA's for this, and they are preparing. I know optimism often gets shot down here at times, but I have optimism. They have been able to watch and research very vocal committees for quite a while

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1) There already was (and is) a 64 bit sim. It's called: X-Plane...

 

2) I hardly dobt that a product like FSX that was already "abandoned" by the devs many years ago, will "die" for many years to come... (Specially for those heavily invested in it...)

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Like everyone here, I probably don't want to know how much I've spent on add-ons over the past twenty years.  However, in my opinion desktop flight simulation is relatively inexpensive compared to a lot of other hobbies.  

 

I know people who will plunk down more money for one round of golf than I spend in several months on airplanes, scenery and the like.  Even my other computer based hobby, digital music production, can be a whole lot more pricey than flight simulation.

 

I don't begrudge DTG's DLC model.  If they do it right everyone benefits.  If they truly understand why Flight failed in the marketplace, they will do it right.

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If we simmers dont like what we see, the current offerings we fly will still do since we invested in them. The goal will be to entice us to move over.

 

I think that's a bit shortsighted, if not self-serving.

 

They made a point to say that possibly 2 generations of potential users had not been tapped.

 

THAT is the goal, IMHO, not necessarily the small existing base of already heavily invested users.

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I'll probably check out the new sim initially, but I won't officially move over to it until all my add-ons are compatible.

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Of course I'll pick it up and probably enjoy it, but my expectations are also scaled back a bit now. After today I'm anticipating an improved FSX just like P3D is an improved FSX. Evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

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My friends and fellow Flight Sim Enthusiasts,

 

There are a few of us old timers lurking about (well, ok, some of us do a bit more than lurk) who have been avid flight simmers since the dawn of this incredible genre, and we have seen a lot of changes occur in our hobby.  As one of those guys, I'd like to add my two cents and perspective.

 

1. Don't panic! Though it has finally dropped off recently (relatively speaking), third party developers have long supported FS9 (FS2004) far into the FSX life cycle and I feel confident the same will be true for FSX.  It takes a VERY long time for Flight Sim obsolescence to occur.

 

2. It's possible for 32 bit software to run on 64 bit systems,and I'm reminded that FSX Scenery (32 bit) can be converted to run on X-plane, so there is every reason to think that people who like me have invested a LOT of money in FSX Scenery may very well be able to use the scenery in the new DTG Flight Sim.  It would be a grave disservice to the community of DTG found a way to prohibit this (though certainly it's there flight sim and their call).

 

3. Speaking of scenery, sometime ago I relaid to DTG the idea I had by which users could RENT an Airport Scenery for a day for about $2.00 USD, and once the person had made rented the scenery say 15 times they would "own" the scenery and would not have to rent it anymore.  This IS possible on the Steam sever, and I certainly hope they took this idea into consideration.  The merits are incredible for both DTG and users.  Think about it... how many of us have purchased an airport scenery and only flew into that airport 3 or 4 times since the purchase?  It drives user cost down, and profit up for DTG.

 

4. Each new release in the MSFS Flight Sim franchise was a blessing, bringing to us many new and exciting features!  I'm thankful for anyone who develops for Flight Sim Community, especially since MS stopped their involvement. What I've seen time and again in over 30 years in Flight Sim is that most ANY new development is highly beneficial to our community!

 

5. Given the tremendously quick development of the flight sim, I'll hazard a guess that the new DTG Flight Sim may in some way be based on MS Flight.  I certainly could be wrong, but given the business deal with MS I think it's certainly within the realm of possibility.  I've not messed with Flight, so I don't know if this would be good or not.

 

6. Regardless of the new sim, we'll all be able use FSX/FSX:SE, and developers will continue to development FSX Addons for as long as there are people using it.

 

 

It would be incredible if DTG did something to make developing Shared Cockpit aircraft easier, or at leat continued to make default aircraft Shared Cockpit capable. Those who who fly airliners may be interested to know that there are now a number of developers implementing Shared Cockpit in their higher end airliners and due to Majestic and Aerosoft (and a few leaders in the Shared Cockpit genre (wink) the Shared Cockpit Pilot community is growing by leaps and bounds! This is certainly understandable given how incredible the experience is!  This past year we've also seen a sharp uptick in the number of people flying on VATSIM. Combine Shared Cockpit with VATSIM and it becomes the most incredible experience I've ever had in Flight Sim - and I still feel that way after flying Shared Cockpit on VATSIM for 12 years in the MD-80 Maddog, 5+ years in the Dash 8 Q400 Pro, and almost a year in the Aerosoft Airbus.  Maybe more importantly, it's the best and easiest way anyone could possibly hope for in regards to introducing someone to high end airliners and/or flying on VATSIM, regardless of the flight simulation one uses.

 

 

Thank you my friends and brother/sister flight simmers for giving me a few minutes to chime in on this.  I wish everyone Happy Flights during the upcoming weekend!

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Is DTG considering support for Oculus Rift? I think that would be great as it is the future of flight simmulation.

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Don't forget - we've been buying "DLC" for years, we just call them add ons...

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5. Given the tremendously quick development of the flight sim, I'll hazard a guess that the new DTG Flight Sim may in some way be based on MS Flight.  I certainly could be wrong, but given the business deal with MS I think it's certainly within the realm of possibility.  I've not messed with Flight, so I don't know if this would be good or not.

 

I agree with everything else you said and think it is well stated. But to clarify this point, it is based on FSX not MS Flight. It is a full world simulation with all or more airports than we had in FSX, unlike MS Flight

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I wouldn't be surprised if LM would release v4 around the release time of the new DTG flightsim too.

Also 64 bit.

And probably there will be released a 32-64 bit addon converter by some company so we could keep on using many addon scenery.

 

New addon scenery will be released in 32/64 bit so everybody will be happy.

 

The idea of renting a scenery addon ans after X times having rented it it becomes yours would only work if all scenery addon developers would join that concept and there would be one renting place.

And that I do not see happening yet.

 

Perhaps DTG might have some scenery for rent but imho it wouldn't be large projects....

 

Just my 2 cents

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Recompiling stuff from 32bit to 64 bit is not a big deal for most of the software I know around here in our IT department (company with around 55.000 people, ~2000 IT).

So I guess Add ons (especially something like scenery) should not be the most complicated thing on this world...

 

So I have a good feeling about LM pushing towards 64 bit sooner or later and having all add ons 64bit-ready with it.

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I wouldn't be surprised if LM would release v4 around the release time of the new DTG flightsim too.
Also 64 bit.
And probably there will be released a 32-64 bit addon converter by some company so we could keep on using many addon scenery.

New addon scenery will be released in 32/64 bit so everybody will be happy.

 

Wouldn't that be something.   Good post 

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