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LMF5000

Wanted: developers to create FSX aircraft (panels/avionics & systems simulation) for my company

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Greetings.

 

I work at an EASA part-147 maintenance training organisation that offers training on business jets.

 

Many of our courses have a theoretical component where we train the students how the aircraft systems operate. We use training aids like scale posters of panels and EICAS displays, instructional videos, etc. in a classroom, then move on to practical training - disassembling and operating systems on a real aeroplane in the hangar, up to and including engine ground runs on the apron.

 

We'd like to step the classroom training up a notch, by having highly realistic FSX models of the jets in our repertoire. These include:

  • Bombardier Global 5000 & 6000 series (with the old Express AND the new Vision Avionics)
  • Challenger 300/350 series
  • Challenger 604/605 series
  • Gulfstream G450/G550/G650

Since this will be used to train maintenance personnel, not pilots, here's what we need:

  • Fully modelled 3D virtual cockpit with all switches functional
  • Accurate operation of all aircraft subsystems (electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic, fuel, fire supression, oxygen, etc.). That means their operation, indications, failure warnings and so on are modelled
  • Faithful reproduction of avionics systems (EICAS displays, menus, cursor controls and so on)
  • External 3D model that includes all probes, antennas, drains, exhaust and intake ports, flight controls that behave like the real aircraft (eg different movement in case of partial hydraulic failure...)
  • Ideally, detailed models also of internal components, like the equipment racks, avionics bay, piping under engine nacelles...
  • Accurate engine performance simulation (indications, mostly) up to a full-power ground run.

And what we don't need:

  • Any sort of realistic flight dynamics. The aircraft will be used for ground-based training only

So, if you're a developer (or you know a developer), particularly of payware aircraft, and you're up to the task, we'd like to discuss the possibilities. Feel free to reply here or in a private message.

 

P.S. Before anybody mentiones it - yes, PMDG were the first developer we approached. 8 months ago, in fact. Still waiting on their response. So we've taken the search public. I'm sure there are plenty of talented developers in this community eager to take on the challenge.

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You want full scale, validated, systems simulations for all these aircraft.  You're wasting your time in FS world; you need to get in touch with folks who do real world simulation systems. Lockheed, Boeing, and possibly others that I'm not aware of... Be prepared to pay until your ears bleed.

 

DJ

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1. You can't legally use FSX of any variation for this. Period.

2. Probably not the right place to post either.

 

Also... you won't ever get a Gulfstream anything... no one's got enough money to countersue them and win.


Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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You want full scale, validated, systems simulations for all these aircraft.  You're wasting your time in FS world; you need to get in touch with folks who do real world simulation systems. Lockheed, Boeing, and possibly others that I'm not aware of... Be prepared to pay until your ears bleed.

 

DJ

 

Not exactly - this is just a training aid to supplement the existing system of paper-based classroom theory. Provided it is used for training purposes only (standard disclaimer), as far as I know it doesn't need specific validation like the course notes themselves do (obviously, other than quality testing to make sure it is consistent with the manufacturer's AMM).

 

Paying until our ears bleed is par for the course in this industry ;)

1. You can't legally use FSX of any variation for this. Period.

2. Probably not the right place to post either.

 

Also... you won't ever get a Gulfstream anything... no one's got enough money to countersue them and win.

 

Maybe not FSX since it's abandonware, but I'm sure an FSX-compatible deriviative (P3D, Dovetail's new offering, etc.) would be willing to supply the right license for the right price. But that'll be our responsibility. We can even do away with the FS environment altogether and make a dedicated program just for the job, but it's going to use the same custom-developed 3D models regardless, so posting here is a good starting point for finding developers with experience in modelling aircraft.

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FSX is the wrong platform for this as you can't physically interact with models outside of the cockpit. P3Dv3 allows, as far as I know, interactions with aircraft in an "avatar" mode which also facilitates walk-around inspections.

 

There also a lot of inherent limitations in FSX' handling of systems and the effort required to work around them makes it more feasible to write some specialized traing software from the ground up. Or at least use a platform with maximum flexibility like FlightGear.

 

Boeing Services Deutschland (ex Peters software) also offers dedicated systems training modules for the EC-135. You could ask them about the prospects for a training module for bizjets.

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Check your PM

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Please contact oisin at milviz dot com for forum registration information.  Please provide proof of purchase if you want support.  Also, include the username you wish to have.
 

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FSX is the wrong platform for this as you can't physically interact with models outside of the cockpit. P3Dv3 allows, as far as I know, interactions with aircraft in an "avatar" mode which also facilitates walk-around inspections.

 

There also a lot of inherent limitations in FSX' handling of systems and the effort required to work around them makes it more feasible to write some specialized traing software from the ground up. Or at least use a platform with maximum flexibility like FlightGear.

 

Boeing Services Deutschland (ex Peters software) also offers dedicated systems training modules for the EC-135. You could ask them about the prospects for a training module for bizjets.

 

Thanks for the lead on Peters software. Will follow that up if our Plan A fails.

Nice website in the signature by the way!

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Gulfstream and Lockheed Martin will have a field day with this....


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

Forumsig16.png

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The OP posted a very polite request in good faith. Some of the replies are plain rude and unnecessary. How about assisting him with some courteous responses?

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Noticed MV responded in what is likely a courteous manner.. Perhaps they are "capable of meeting the high bar set".

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Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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The OP posted a very polite request in good faith. Some of the replies are plain rude and unnecessary. How about assisting him with some courteous responses?

 

Thank you. So it's not just me that's noticing an unwarranted level of hostility.

Noticed MV responded in what is likelya courteous manner.. Perhaps they are "capable of meeting the high bar set".

 

Indeed, MVs response was the most positive thing to come out of this thread (thus far). I won't disclose the contents of his PM, but it certainly does his company credit. I was hoping to encounter more people like that on this thread.

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Just hope Gulfstream doesn't find out, they have lawyers ready to strike.

Despite Gulfstream's stance on their aircraft being modeled for consumer flight sims available to the general public, I am sure that their policy would be different in the case of someone wanting to create solutions for real-world maintenance training. Both Flight Safety and CAE have developed desktop cockpit systems emulators for various Gulfstream aircraft (used for both pilot and maintenance training) that were created with GAC's active cooperation.

 

I'm sure there were significant licensing fees and NDAs involved.

 

Those emulators are standalone programs however, similar to Aerowinx PSX. They are not based on an existing flight simulator.

 

Any solution like the OP proposes would also require the approval of the regulatory agencies of the country where the training is being provided - either the FAA or EASA.

 

FSX definitely cannot be used as the basis for such training systems, as the license for the software strictly prohibits it from being used for any type of real-world training, but Prepar3D is an entirely different matter.

 

Both Aerowinx PSX, and its predecessor PS1 were (and are) used for r/w CBT training by 747-400 operators. I imagine the bulk of the company's revenues come from that, rather than sales to hobbiest users like us.

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Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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Ah, a knowlegeable and moderate voice. :smile:

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Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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