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cavaricooper

New Build for P3D V3.2- March 2016

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Hi:

 

Please understand, I HAVE SEARCHED....  what I am looking for is a CURRENT (March 2016) top of the line build recommendation for P3D v 3.2- period.

 

I read so much about z170 v x99 and Devil's Canyon vs. Skylake.  Add in the W10 Pro vs. W7 x64 Pro debate, throw in some RAM discussion, and I end up without a plan of action.... I am looking for a relatively mainstream, high performance machine.

 

If Rob, Steve etc. have a moment, I would be much obliged....

 

I AM SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR A MOTHERBOARD, CPU, RAM combination to allow a 4.8GHz OC.

 

I am decided on (and have purchased) the following-

 

  • CASE- Cooler Master Stacker (matches my current case)
  • VIDEO- EVGA GTX 980Ti SC
  • OS SSD- Samsung 850 Pro 128G
  • SIM SSD- Samsung 850 Pro 1 TB
  • PS- Corsair HX1050
  • DVD/RW- Asus
  • CPU COOLER- Corsair H105

 

SPECIFIC advice on MB, CPU, RAM AND OS- from CURRENT HW USERS that are achieving 4.8GHz or better OC's is GREATLY APPRECIATED!

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I currently use FSX, but am planning to adopt P3D V3.2.

 

These were my choices and why...

 

Skylake 6700K

 

Newer platform. And not just about increased performance, there are lots of other advantageous features Skylake brings to the table. Namely, USB 3.1. M.2, U.2, NFC, faster higher density DDR4 and more...

 

4.6 - 4.8 GHz dependant on the silicone lottery. And if I may, you say you are interested in hearing from those that have achieved 4.8 GHz... given that those individuals will merely have done well in the silicone lottery, I'm not sure that those individuals will help you any more than those who happen to own chips that will only clock lower.

 

Asus Z170-A

 

Did consider the Deluxe, but couldn't justify it as I wouldn't use many of the Deluxe features. 

 

GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz

 

GSkill have gone to town on these modules, they specifically designed them for Skylake and used top quality Samsung modules.

 

Samsung 850 Evo

 

Good enough for me. May adopt the Intel 750 U.2 sometime in the future.

 

Enermax Platimax 850. 

 

850 watts is above my minimum requirement. Plenty of capacity for future upgrades and hits the most efficient 50% output range. And I could afford the somewhat higher price. Also multi rail as opposed to single rail, thus less chance of damage to other PC components if there's a failure due to lower OCP trip point per rail.

 

Lian Li X510

 

 

EVGA GTX 980Ti Classified 

 

I'm a fan of EVGA.

 

Noctua NH-D14S

 

I'm not a fan of closed loop coolers. I prefer large tower heat sinks. No chance of pump failure, no chance of leaks, cool and quiet. The "S" variant has only one 150 mm fan, but two only reduces temp by two degrees, so meaningless.

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Nvidia has the new GeForce GTX 1080 8GB gddr5x based on Pascal GPU launching in May...

 

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I currently use FSX, but am planning to adopt P3D V3.2.

 

These were my choices and why...

 

Skylake 6700K

 

Newer platform. And not just about increased performance, there are lots of other advantageous features Skylake brings to the table. Namely, USB 3.1. M.2, U.2, NFC, faster higher density DDR4 and more...

 

4.6 - 4.8 GHz dependant on the silicone lottery. And if I may, you say you are interested in hearing from those that have achieved 4.8 GHz... given that those individuals will merely have done well in the silicone lottery, I'm not sure that those individuals will help you any more than those who happen to own chips that will only clock lower.

 

Asus Z170-A

 

Did consider the Deluxe, but couldn't justify it as I wouldn't use many of the Deluxe features. 

 

GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz

 

GSkill have gone to town on these modules, they specifically designed them for Skylake and used top quality Samsung modules.

 

Samsung 850 Evo

 

Good enough for me. May adopt the Intel 750 U.2 sometime in the future.

 

Enermax Platimax 850. 

 

850 watts is above my minimum requirement. Plenty of capacity for future upgrades and hits the most efficient 50% output range. And I could afford the somewhat higher price. Also multi rail as opposed to single rail, thus less chance of damage to other PC components if there's a failure due to lower OCP trip point per rail.

 

Lian Li X510

 

 

EVGA GTX 980Ti Classified 

 

I'm a fan of EVGA.

 

Noctua NH-D14S

 

I'm not a fan of closed loop coolers. I prefer large tower heat sinks. No chance of pump failure, no chance of leaks, cool and quiet. The "S" variant has only one 150 mm fan, but two only reduces temp by two degrees, so meaningless.

 

Looks really good.  Are you going with two SSD's one for Windows and another dedicated to P3d ?

 

Also, what case are you going to use ?  

 

Finally, are you planning to de-lid the processor ?  I read that doing so and replacing the tim will lower chip temps by up to 20 degrees.

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Here's what I'm currently building:

 

6700k

Because you can't go wrong with the latest.

 

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero

The ROG boards are using top-shelf components and get more stability on faster OCs.

 

Corsair H100i v2

I like closed loop coolers, but it's a love it or hate it thing.  I ran my previous 2600k at 4.6 for four years without breaking a sweat with an Antec small closed loop cooler.

 

GSkill Ripjaws V

Because I used hundreds of these sticks, rarely had a problem, and had great support from GSkill.  Have DDR4-2400MHz because Skylake benefits very marginally from OCd RAM and I couldn't justify the price difference.

 

Samsung 850 Evo

Consistently great.  Might add an M2 drive eventually.

 

MSI GTX970 Gaming

Because I already have it - waiting for Pascal to upgrade.

 

 

Where I will disagree with the current train of thought is in the PSU department.  Too many people decide to go the cheaper route when the PSU is actually the backbone of the system, and a cheap one can have extreme consequences.  I went with a Seasonic Platinum 860, but around the same performance and quality can be found for cheaper with the EVGA P2.  I went with the Seasonic because it has TWO line filters and my current fluctuates a bit too much at home.  I'd steer clear of the Corsair HX series, the quality seems to have gone down quite a bit.

 

No one could convince me to de-lid a Skylake CPU, but then again I'm more of a moderate overclocker, will probably run my 6700k at 4.6.

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Here's what I'm currently building:

 

6700k

Because you can't go wrong with the latest.

 

 

No one could convince me to de-lid a Skylake CPU, but then again I'm more of a moderate overclocker, will probably run my 6700k at 4.6.

 

Just get one of those little delid tools they have now and there is very little risk.   https://www.youmagine.com/designs/skylake-delid-tool

 

what case are you going to put that in ?

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No one could convince me to de-lid a Skylake CPU, but then again I'm more of a moderate overclocker, will probably run my 6700k at 4.6.

 

If you change your mind, you can delid safely with Delid die-mate tool from overclockers.UK, sorry I don't have direct link. I purchased one and have three successful delids, one of which was 6700k.

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what case are you going to put that in ?

 

A Corsair 330R Blackout because I hate noise.

 

About the de-lidding, I didn't know that and it seems nice, but I'm not pushing enough for it to be worth anything to me.

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Get your CPU from siliconlottery.com and you are guaranteed your 4.8ghz plus he'll de lid it for you as well. Good place to deal with. 

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  • OS SSD- Samsung 850 Pro 128G
  • SIM SSD- Samsung 850 Pro 1 TB

 

Samsung SSDs are definitely a great choice but why the Pro? It may be faster the the Evo but, in the real world, you just won't notice the difference. Plus, for less than the cost of just a 1TB Pro, you could get both a 1TB and a 500GB Evo!

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A Corsair 330R Blackout because I hate noise.

 

About the de-lidding, I didn't know that and it seems nice, but I'm not pushing enough for it to be worth anything to me.

 

Nice case.  My current build is in a Corsair Obsidian 450D, really like their cases.

Get your CPU from siliconlottery.com and you are guaranteed your 4.8ghz plus he'll de lid it for you as well. Good place to deal with. 

 

But of course, this comes with a significant price bump.  Current 4.8 is $499 USD, plus $49,00 for the delid.

 

Regular price on Newegg is $375.oo.

 

Now the 4.7 is a good deal.  $379.99 plus the delid. 

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But of course, this comes with a significant price bump.  Current 4.8 is $499 USD, plus $49,00 for the delid.

 

Regular price on Newegg is $375.oo.

 

Now the 4.7 is a good deal.  $379.99 plus the delid.

 

4.8 is currently $449. Definitely a premium price, but with the New Egg option he may only get 4.5, where as in his post he clearly wanted 4.8.

 

But regardless, 6700K is the way to go!

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4.8 is currently $449. Definitely a premium price, but with the New Egg option he may only get 4.5, where as in his post he clearly wanted 4.8.

 

But regardless, 6700K is the way to go!

 

Which is why the siliconelottery 6700K at 4.7 for just $5 more than the regular store price is an awesome deal.

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Looks really good.  Are you going with two SSD's one for Windows and another dedicated to P3d ?

 

Also, what case are you going to use ?  

 

Finally, are you planning to de-lid the processor ?  I read that doing so and replacing the tim will lower chip temps by up to 20 degrees.

 

 

 

No, just one SSD Mark, 1TB. I've never gone for the one for OS and one for the sim strategy to be honest, and the sim has always run very well for me. It was claimed to be a valid strategy but not any more in my opinion.

 

The case is a Lian Li X510. And I can tell you it's a gorgeous enclosure. Very expensive though. I just love aluminium. This is my second aluminium case and I'd never go back to steel. Quality is so much better.

 

Delidding Skylake can yield up to a 20 degree drop in temperature. Not planning to at this stage though. I don't believe it's necessary for a mere couple of hundred megahertz, which translates to just a few frames per seconds. If I'm unlucky and my CPU has a dodgy IHS/Die interface then I'll dellid it.

 

 

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-x510/

 

 

510-main.jpg

 

 

 

 Have DDR4-2400MHz because Skylake benefits very marginally from OCd RAM and I couldn't justify the price difference.

 

 

No one could convince me to de-lid a Skylake CPU, but then again I'm more of a moderate overclocker, will probably run my 6700k at 4.6.

 

 

And to be honest, as I mentioned previously, the difference between 4.6 and 4.8 in terms of frame rate is minimal. Just a few frames per second. The difference between 4.6 and 4.8 if we were honest with ourselves is more about bragging rights. Offers very little in practice.

 

As for Skylake RAM...

 

http://www.avsim.com...speed-ddr4-ram/

http://www.avsim.com...timings-in-fsx/

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Bragging rights and who spends more time tweaking are what really matters in flight simming.  :Cuppa:

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My 2 cents (assumption is cost is not relevant):

 

1.  980Ti (SLI not very effective in P3D V3.x but I need to test more with V3.2 and latest nVidia drivers)

2.  Quad channel motherboard and CPU (Asus X99 Extreme boards work well for OC and Asus R&D socket design to optimize performance) ... memory bandwidth is very important and quad channel setups are typically over 60 GB/s

3.  Quad channel RAM (3000Mhz CL15 or better) - 3200 or 3400 might require a lower BCLK.

4.  Good water cooling solution for heat extraction.

5.  Higher BCLK OC seems to work well for me 125 X 35, 36, 37 

6.  PSU ... 850W or higher - try to keep loads around 50% of rated (my setup draws about 450-600 Watts under load, my PSU is 1200 Watt) and most importantly try to obtain output results under rapid load switching (this is where many PSUs fail causing high fluctuations in current)

7.  M.2 Samsungs 512GB drive is much faster than standard SATA6 SSD (motherboard needs to be equipped with M.2 slot(s).

8.  4K monitor (I like Sony, so long as it can do 30hz and 60Hz and look/operate as good at both refresh rates)

9.  5820K 5930K or 5960X 

 

I don't believe in "silicon lottery" ... you can make any CPU work at high OC with some tuning and efficient heat extraction.  If you are concerned about OC I suggest you obtain Intel's replacement guarantee (no questions asked).

 

I also don't believe in "selected" RAM modules at exotic prices ... these so called "performance" bins are done with internal testing equipment that is not representative of what one will encounter on any brand X motherboard using a different PSU, different GPU(s)/components, electrical outlet, PC location, etc. etc. etc.  ... it passed a very specific "controlled" environment -- and one's home environment will be entirely different.

 

Not a fan of Skylake, cache too small and wasted graphics unit just taking up space.

 

OC can help you hit that min FPS to match your monitor's refresh rate ... for example Vsync On, 30Hz refresh 4.3Ghz ... if I drop down to 28 FPS I get a stutter or two, at 4.6Ghz I don't drop below 30 FPS (that 2 FPS makes a difference), no stutters and all smooth.

 

Just my opinion of what has worked for me and I'm certainly NOT suggesting anything beyond that and no "golden" rules.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Not a fan of Skylake, cache too small and wasted graphics unit just taking up space.

I love this argument.  I agree the integrated graphics are just taking up space - but the rest is very interesting.  It's a point I debated a lot before I made the investment.  It came down to wanting the best bang for my buck, considering cost was an object, and the Canadian dollar is quite low, my system came down to roughly the same as if I bought it in USD.  

 

Although the 6700k's cost was around the same as the 5820k, the motherboard would have been 40% more expensive, and that with all considered the 6700k has more IPC than the 5820k, which is what counts more and more for modern software.  6 cores will help for heavy video editing (which I don't do) and extreme multitasking, which is above my needs.  I consider myself a power user, but I don't have nearly the needs of a guy like you, Rob (I do however drool at your system and the videos you post).  Besides, I want to run SLIx2 but that's about where it stops.  

 

In the end, I don't have enough free time to be on the computer to justify a system worth more than $2000.

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Thank-you all (and especially you Rob)... I have lots to mull over... and shall.

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4. Good water cooling solution for heat extraction.

 

 

 

The Noctua NH-D15/15S cools perfectly adequately for high overclocks. No need for pumps that will ultimately fail and potential water leaks. Yes, a fancy full blown loop is nice if you happen to be enthusiastic about such things, but it's not a requirement and not necessarily the right solution for all.

 

 

I don't believe in "silicon lottery" ... you can make any CPU work at high OC with some tuning and efficient heat extraction.  If you are concerned about OC I suggest you obtain Intel's replacement guarantee (no questions asked).

 

 

 

Well it kind of defies the laws of physics to say you "don't believe in the silicon lottery" to be honest, given that it's a very real phenomenon. And it depends on how you define "high overclocks". It's most definitely true that if the silicone lottery lands you with a very bad chip, that no amount of "efficient cooling" and "fine tuning" will magically render it anything different. Some very bad chips don't even respond to super high voltage and remain unstable. And if your dodgy chip does respond to super high voltage, then accelerated degradation ensues. High voltage degrades a CPU despite having the thermals in control. Current and amperage are highly significant in terms of a CPU's lifespan. 

 

CPU manufacturers dope the silicone in such a way that the required energy to for an electron to tunnel is huge, so under normal circumstances, as a result of this energy barrier, the electron does as it's told, stays where it's supposed to. However, as we increase voltage to render our bad overclocker stable, the electrons have more energy and therefore a higher probability that they will overcome the energy barrier and turn a switch that should be off, on! Ultimately, a path forms and the electrons pass through with ease, leading ultimately to CPU failure. 

 

 

 

Not a fan of Skylake, cache too small and wasted graphics unit just taking up space.

 

 

 

Yes I wish the integrated graphics wasn't there too. However... that's no reason not to be a fan of Skylake, same for your cache argument. We can hardly say the cache is "too small" when the forums are replete with individuals thoroughly impressed by Skylake's performance. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. 

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I prefer a unused IGP before a hole bunch of voltage regulators as in the Haswell chips ,

One of the reasons wy Haswell produce a lot of heat.

The silcon lotteria is real , Rob your 5960x is not a good one not mine , but i have test some good ones.

5ghz at 1.32v 8c/8t CB15 stable

Have one Haswell-E 5960x with asus MoBo ( V Extreme) but a prefer the Skylake up to SLI but if you run triple or Quad SLI with apps that support it ok the 5960x shine.

Its my personal opinion , the 5960x runs 4.7 3400mhz cl 14 mems and not close to the 5ghz 6700k with 4000mhz cl16 mems on a asus impact both with single 980ti sim P3D 3.1 not uppgraderar 3.2 yet settings after Robs recomendations same with both systems , thanks Rob.

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I prefer a unused IGP before a hole bunch of voltage regulators as in the Haswell chips ,

One of the reasons wy Haswell produce a lot of heat.

 

 

Good point, I hadn't considered that. 

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The silcon lotteria is real , Rob your 5960x is not a good one not mine , but i have test some good ones.

5ghz at 1.32v 8c/8t CB15 stable

 

Need to know more than just Core voltage ... that's one very small element of the equation to successful stable OC.  I have operated at 4.8 and 5.0Ghz using lower BCLK (100 rather than 125) and adjusting RAM timings but that caused higher latency and less bandwidth, but more importantly I more frequent long frames at extreme graphics settings and add-ons at 4.8 and 5.0Ghz.  So I've elected to operate at around 4.6Ghz HT OFF.

 

But I'll maintain the lottery is NOT real.  What is real is the "guess work" that goes into OC ... it's far too "try this and see what happens" ... but when one has close to 100,000+ permutations of BIOS/EFI settings to work with, it's not surprising their is less "science" involved and more "try this".  I'm sure there are more permutations I could have tried to come up with higher BCLK and lower latency (at 4.8 or 5.0Ghz), but I just didn't find the right combination ... just a matter of how much time one wants to put into it and not so much a "lottery".

 

Cheers, Rob.

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if a CPU do 4.4 and another do 5.0ghz on the same MoBo and bios settings only swap CPUs .

For example Caseking have binned 6700k on 1000 tested is 50 good 2-3 really good.

Asus RD binned tons of CPUs intel binned CPUs for computex and even CPUs for rewiews Its common in the industri.

Its no lotteria when you bin CPUs but if you buy one Its lotteria.

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I've taken the very same CPU out and then back into the same Motherboard and was not able to OC it has high ... there are just too many other variables to come to the conclusion it's a CPU lottery.  

 

1.  socket contamination (micro-spec of dust between a contact and/or other contaminants) on each insert

2.  cooling block tension 

3.  application of thermal paste

4.  socket contact depressions (from prior insertions)

5.  and the list goes on and on...

 

The motherboard variance is likely to be the HIGHEST factor in variance in OC's over the 100+ builds I've done over the decades.

 

I would also NOT trust anything Intel portrait to the public ... Intel have no desktop competition, so they have no incentive to provide CPUs with higher clocks but less profit.

 

Cheers, Rob

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