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aceridgey

We are all flying in 'slow motion'

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I am happy with the progress of P3d but the one thing that really upsets me was highlighted when I was on the jumpseat on a 757 yesterday.

 

Speed..

 

Now. When you're flying and looking out of the side window as a passenger, you don't often get a perseption of how fast you're going as there is nothing to reference until it's shooting past the window..

 

On the flightdeck, a different matter.

 

When I am flying through clouds on the sim the whole moving picture is about 4 or 5 times slower than it would be in real life.

 

 

Is there ANYTHING that can be done to change this? Or, why is this happening?

 

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Hi,

 

Wonder if P3D3's inability to get clouds moving at different rates, such as clouds in jet streams and what not are the issue. As far as speed, the speed looks fine during landing and takeoffs so I would assume it's the clouds that are in slow motion.

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I would venture that it is partly down to the mixture of "3D" clouds and 2 dimensional sprites that are constantly facing the viewpoint in the sim. Because they swing around to stay facing you, the edges of the sprites move unnaturally and this detracts from the sense of speed. That and the fact that clouds fade out relatively far from the viewpoint as you fly through them.

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I would venture that it is partly down to the mixture of "3D" clouds and 2 dimensional sprites that are constantly facing the viewpoint in the sim. Because they swing around to stay facing you, the edges of the sprites move unnaturally and this detracts from the sense of speed. That and the fact that clouds fade out relatively far from the viewpoint as you fly through them.

 

With that in mind, it means that p3d could potentially fix this?

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I'm presuming you're comparing with your actual experience of being there, not with that video, which looks like it's shot on a GoPro. Naturally that's going to look a lot faster than real life due to the distorted perspective.

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I'm presuming you're comparing with your actual experience of being there, not with that video, which looks like it's shot on a GoPro. Naturally that's going to look a lot faster than real life due to the distorted perspective.

I'm presuming that you read my post? I was on a 757 jumpseat.

 

The go pro video does a good job at showing what is seen. There is a major disparity between flight sim and real life at speed perception

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I agree exactly with what you are saying, and wish there was a fix or tweak.  It's funny, when I see a youtube video of FSX/P3D and they do a fast forward section to save time, that's when the movement actually looks correct with clouds whizzing by.

 

Not sure if it's zoom, aspect ratio, cloud design like mentioned above or what, but I agree, when flying, things just seem to move slower than real life at 1x time rate.

 

And yes, I too am a RW pilot, so not just going off a GoPro etc.

 

Haven't had time to mess around much with other PC flight sims these past couple years, do any of them do it better?  DCS for example, be curious how it compares at similar airspeeds.

 

Good post.

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It does somewhat have to do with zoom , if you have wideview enabled try zooming back to .3 and it looks like you moving faster cause the stuff at the edges is streched. The more you zoom in towards 1.0 the slower things appear to move. It's because the image you see on screen is flattened instead of a 3d bubble of perception 

 

In other words you would better get the sense of motion if you had a dome with an aspect corrected view encompassing your whole view.

 

edit : there was a user named Denali that was working on something similar for this in P3D, not sure if it's still alive or not.


One more thing. When I was in a 737 simulator that had a projection screen in front of the cockpit that encompased your whole field of view suddenly it changed your perception and you "felt" the motion and it seemed real....their sim was running on FSX. Hard to describe until you experience it.

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It does somewhat have to do with zoom , if you have wideview enabled try zooming back to .3 and it looks like you moving faster cause the stuff at the edges is streched. The more you zoom in towards 1.0 the slower things appear to move. It's because the image you see on screen is flattened instead of a 3d bubble of perception 

 

In other words you would better get the sense of motion if you had a dome with an aspect corrected view encompassing your whole view.

 

edit : there was a user named Denali that was working on something similar for this in P3D, not sure if it's still alive or not.

One more thing. When I was in a 737 simulator that had a projection screen in front of the cockpit that encompased your whole field of view suddenly it changed your perception and you "felt" the motion and it seemed real....their sim was running on FSX. Hard to describe until you experience it.

Hmm, this makes me wonder, if using a Rift or Vive VR headset, I wonder how the "speed" feels?  I haven't had the luck to try one out yet.

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It does somewhat have to do with zoom , if you have wideview enabled try zooming back to .3 and it looks like you moving faster cause the stuff at the edges is streched. The more you zoom in towards 1.0 the slower things appear to move. It's because the image you see on screen is flattened instead of a 3d bubble of perception 

 

In other words you would better get the sense of motion if you had a dome with an aspect corrected view encompassing your whole view.

 

edit : there was a user named Denali that was working on something similar for this in P3D, not sure if it's still alive or not.

One more thing. When I was in a 737 simulator that had a projection screen in front of the cockpit that encompased your whole field of view suddenly it changed your perception and you "felt" the motion and it seemed real....their sim was running on FSX. Hard to describe until you experience it.

 

 

I agree exactly with what you are saying, and wish there was a fix or tweak.  It's funny, when I see a youtube video of FSX/P3D and they do a fast forward section to save time, that's when the movement actually looks correct with clouds whizzing by.

 

Not sure if it's zoom, aspect ratio, cloud design like mentioned above or what, but I agree, when flying, things just seem to move slower than real life at 1x time rate.

 

And yes, I too am a RW pilot, so not just going off a GoPro etc.

 

Haven't had time to mess around much with other PC flight sims these past couple years, do any of them do it better?  DCS for example, be curious how it compares at similar airspeeds.

 

Good post.

 

 

Definetely I think it's something to do with the zoom. I just zoomed out to .30 and everything looked a lot faster. Really such a difference. 

 

I wonder if we can compromise somehow and have a .95 zoom in the sim whilst getting the speed at .4

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I'm presuming that you read my post? I was on a 757 jumpseat.

 

Well yes, that's why I said 'I'm presuming you're comparing with your actual experience of being there'. The GoPro does not show what you see - at its most conservative, a GoPro will approximate a conventional wide angle lens (28mm), which is going to exaggerate speed and distance. At its worst, it will show a 12-15mm 'fish-eye' lens (35mm format equivalent).

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What I wonder since I haven't seen it yet either is your perception with a VR headset will it aspect correct the video automatically? All I know is when another guy was flying this sim and he nosed down I about fell over it makes that much of a difference. It was still FSX and all I can say is it's all in the presentation. All they had were projectors and a big white wall. Can't remember if they used warping software or not.


Uploaded to youtube, it's hard to get the feel from this but this is what I was flying.

 

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I think it's because the flightsim clouds lack depth - they look real from a distance but aloft they look flat, hard to tell the size and shape of them... Because they are sprites like someone said.

 

In that video you could sense the depth... Emerging from a soft blanket - different colors and different light/dark areas in the cloud tops

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Definetely I think it's something to do with the zoom. I just zoomed out to .30 and everything looked a lot faster. Really such a difference. 

 

I wonder if we can compromise somehow and have a .95 zoom in the sim whilst getting the speed at .4

 

This exactly why I just have gone yesterday with Ultra widescreen and not the 4K route the best purchase I have done in years:-)

Watch AI passing by in the sim the speed is there ;-) but not with clouds...

Also the cloud base isn't real 3d combination of several factors which contribute to the "slow" feeling.

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True never seen clouds like that in FSX or P3d. I think it's more a cloud depiction problem in the sim.

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Look at the instruments and don't worry about clouds :)

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I would also say it is due to the fact, that the clouds are simply not detailed enough. Basically, a SIM cloud is a huge blob of white whatever, being close to the cloud, you completely lose all details. If you would have a comparison to the real deal, you would need to find a cloud which is basically 4, 5 times bigger without additional details. This, along with the sprite character, completely abolishes the real perception of flying through clouds. Easy "test": fly in the mountains with low level clouds. You will realize that the perception of speed in regard to the clouds seems to be slow, while the perception of speed in relation to the ground is ok. Simply because the ground offers enough details to really perceive the speed, while the undetailed clouds do not.

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I would venture that it is partly down to the mixture of "3D" clouds and 2 dimensional sprites that are constantly facing the viewpoint in the sim. Because they swing around to stay facing you, the edges of the sprites move unnaturally and this detracts from the sense of speed. That and the fact that clouds fade out relatively far from the viewpoint as you fly through them.

 

That's pretty much it. Even with 4096x4096 cloud textures, they lack structure and definition. They look fine from a distance, and even close-up, but the sense of movement and speed is lacking.

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IMHO it has nothing to do at all with details and resolution (or the lack of peripheral vision): when you are flying through clouds at a speed of 300 kts and look 90 degrees sideways, so straight out of the side window, the clouds should pass by at a terrifying speed. Even if they are utterly low res. But they don't. They pass by as if you are driving a bike. Really very slowly.

I think it has to do with the clouds not being actually 3D but sprites that turn around with your view. We all know things in the distance move by slower than things nearby. Because we are never actually flying through 3D clouds but always past flat sprites there always is a distance between us and the cloud we think we are seeing in the sim. We THINK we are flying through clouds but we are looking at sprites which always are at a distance and that's why clouds pass by slowly, unlike actual 3D objects we see during take off and landing. If clouds in the sim will become real 3D the problem will be solved instantly.

 

EDIT

Just checked and the clouds that I SEEM to be flying through pass by at the same speed trees do during landing at a distance of a few hundred meters. So the cloud seems to be close but in the sim world it is a sprite at a distance of a few hundred meters only giving the impression it is close by because of the size. We are fooled into thinking the cloud is nearby but it isn't. The speed of 3D objects passing by during landing is spot on so the problem cannot be low res textures or too little detail: it is the distance of the actual 'cloud' in the sim world: because it is a lot further away than we think it passes by so slowly.

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All of the above.  There is a distortion in the view, things in the middle of a view do not move as fast as they should across the arc of view.   There is less detail to "grab hold of" with  your eyes.  The sprites are acting at a distance from the cockpit, I imagine so as not to clip/bleed into it.  That last one is the big one.  You can't get your eye on anything easily, but when you can, it doesn't come near you,it  doesn't fly over your shoulder, and your perspective of it does not change because sprite. It's like somebody walking around you at half the free throw line; the ball never comes at you.  They can all be fixed, but for that we are probably at the limits of 32bit before we get there.  (architecture student before becoming a computer geek, stupid CAD Lab)

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