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Gregg_Seipp

New TrackIR 5...hurts my eyes

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Hi all,

 

So I had a Track IR ages ago...first version and it stunk...always having to recenter.  Everybody's always talking about how great it is so, decided to try the new model.  First point is that I don't have to recenter this one very much and it tracks the head thing (not the LED thing) pretty well.  That's good.  But, lord, it hurts my eyes.  I'm running a 50" 4K monitor and I see every little jerkiness to it though I turned smoothness all the way up (it helped).  Are there some tricks...some settings?  I have it sitting on top of the monitor...is there a better place?  Will I get used to it?  Maybe it's my glasses? 

 

What's your experience?

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Hi Greg,

 

I am struggling to understand how it could hurt your eyes over regular hat trick movements.

 

Let me ask you a couple of questions slightly different in nature, but perhaps connected:

 

"Have you ever had migraine headaches induced by certain light and or movement conditions?

 

Have you ever had a migraine headache? Ever had a migraine headache without the presence of pain, but visual distortion?"

 

Could you are be experiencing something along this line when using Track IR?

 

Just some thoughts as I can not imaging how your eyes can hurt with Track IR if they do not otherwise, unless something else is happening.

 

Kind regards

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Try zooming out a bit - is it more comfortable? If so, you probably need to tone down the sensitivity for your regular zoom factor. You have a big screen and using default profiles will mean the movements are bigger on you screen than on an average-sized one. Go to the place where you edit the movement curves for each axis and just click the button that shifts the curve downwards a couple of times. You will need to experiment to get it right. I suggest you also make sure you have a flat spot (or near flat) in the centre of each axis so the image will stay still when you're looking more or less straight ahead.

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Hi Greg,

 

I am struggling to understand how it could hurt your eyes over regular hat trick movements.

 

Let me ask you a couple of questions slightly different in nature, but perhaps connected:

 

"Have you ever had migraine headaches induced by certain light and or movement conditions?

 

Have you ever had a migraine headache? Ever had a migraine headache without the presence of pain, but visual distortion?"

 

Could you are be experiencing something along this line when using Track IR?

 

Just some thoughts as I can not imaging how your eyes can hurt with Track IR if they do not otherwise, unless something else is happening.

 

Kind regards

 

No, never had a migraine and rarely get a headache.  I can't wear bifocal contacts though...something to do with my eyes.  That's the only unusual thing.  I'm just hoping it's something either have settings for or that they got used to.

 

 

Try zooming out a bit - is it more comfortable? If so, you probably need to tone down the sensitivity for your regular zoom factor. You have a big screen and using default profiles will mean the movements are bigger on you screen than on an average-sized one. Go to the place where you edit the movement curves for each axis and just click the button that shifts the curve downwards a couple of times. You will need to experiment to get it right. I suggest you also make sure you have a flat spot (or near flat) in the centre of each axis so the image will stay still when you're looking more or less straight ahead.

 

Okay, yeah, I was thinking about the big screen.  Not sure how many others use one.  It *seems* to be picking up the reflective head thing well so far.  I've used EZDok a long, long time for views and it's worked well...typically have zoom set to 90%.  I'll try your suggestions when I get a moment.

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It *seems* to be picking up the reflective head thing well so far.

 

Yes, as long as your lighting conditions are suitable it works flawlessly (well for me, anyway). And it's worth point out a common misconception that TrackIR needs re-centring because it 'drifts'. It doesn't drift and only needs re-centring if you shift in your seat. One caveat is you need to turn off 'recentre if out of range' (or whatever it's called), which is a dumb idea but I think is a default. Or maybe that's an EZCA default - either way, turn it off :)

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Gregg, I now exactly what you mean. I have been using TrackIr/Ezdok for years. However, the only solution to avoid jaggyness when panning around appears to maintain high fps, i.e 60 fps or higher. I am now using G-sync that synchronizes fps to monitor Hz, but even then everything <60 fps just does not feel smooth.

 

The 2nd advice is to increase smoothness within TrackIr, but you have already done this. This helps to maintain the sweet spot when looking at the ND/PFD.

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Ok, I got back about an hour ago and tried it again.  I found some old threads suggesting 'Seth-Flight' and our own Rob's TrackIR profile (Rob, you must have a very steady head!...very sensitive settings.)  Those helped.  I also fiddled with the zoom some.  It's better. 

  • It would be *nice* if the screen would come up with the usual forward EZDoc view and when I look directly forward and press a button it would accept that as the center...finding the right view is a pill!  Is there a logical technique?
  • I disabled the 'center out of range' but it still does it...I'm looking down and it's looking back forward.  Hmmm.
  • When I press F9, instead of stopping moving right where I'm looking it recenters too.  I wish it would just stay right there so I can click the buttons on the FMS or whatever I'm looking at.  I suck at clicking buttons with it turned on...the buttons and knobs keep moving around.
  • I guess you can't switch views (oxymoronic, perhaps) but I find it difficult, so far, to look down at the center console or overhead to check or click things.

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Ok, I got back about an hour ago and tried it again.  I found some old threads suggesting 'Seth-Flight' and our own Rob's TrackIR profile (Rob, you must have a very steady head!...very sensitive settings.)  Those helped.  I also fiddled with the zoom some.  It's better. 

  • It would be *nice* if the screen would come up with the usual forward EZDoc view and when I look directly forward and press a button it would accept that as the center...finding the right view is a pill!  Is there a logical technique?
  • I disabled the 'center out of range' but it still does it...I'm looking down and it's looking back forward.  Hmmm.
  • When I press F9, instead of stopping moving right where I'm looking it recenters too.  I wish it would just stay right there so I can click the buttons on the FMS or whatever I'm looking at.  I suck at clicking buttons with it turned on...the buttons and knobs keep moving around.
  • I guess you can't switch views (oxymoronic, perhaps) but I find it difficult, so far, to look down at the center console or overhead to check or click things.

 

 

I used Track IR all the time when I flew GA aircraft, and even when Train Simming, but after I changed totally to airliners, I found it a nuisance, and would rather just move my  view around with the hat switch on my joystick. Holding my head still while turning knobs and clicking switches in a VC, just become too much of a hassle for me. 

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I turned off the head tilt. That was straining my neck and eyes

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You need high fps. As someone else mentioned, 60fps is ideal and very possible at 1920x1080. Not sure if that's possible at 4K, so panning will be jerky, missing frames, and generally not smooth. That would contribute to a lot of headaches and kill immersion imo. 

 

You will also need to experiment and tune your trackIR profile to your liking. I started off with the Seth Profile, but have created my own that is ideal for my setup. 

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I used Track IR all the time when I flew GA aircraft, and even when Train Simming, but after I changed totally to airliners, I found it a nuisance, and would rather just move my view around with the hat switch on my joystick. Holding my head still while turning knobs and clicking switches in a VC, just become too much of a hassle for me.

 

I'd imagine, at the minimum, it would take a lot of getting used to.

 

 

 


I turned off the head tilt. That was straining my neck and eyes

 

That could be a good idea.  Might help me set the view too.

 

 

 


You need high fps. As someone else mentioned, 60fps is ideal and very possible at 1920x1080. Not sure if that's possible at 4K, so panning will be jerky, missing frames, and generally not smooth. That would contribute to a lot of headaches and kill immersion imo.

You will also need to experiment and tune your trackIR profile to your liking. I started off with the Seth Profile, but have created my own that is ideal for my setup.

 

4K doesn't hurt frames from what I've seen.  It does allow you to turn off lots of AA which, in fact, can help frames.  I can imagine having a GA profile and a heavy metal profile.  The field of view I need in heavy metal is much larger than GA if I can't change views.

 

To me, the view setting problem could be *a lot* simpler.  If the TrackIR software would make the assumption that the starting view is the view you wanted and also make the assumption that the angle of the lights at the moment you press F12 is the angle you want then you could just look at the screen, press the button and fly.  Easy peasy.  Moving my head, clicking the F12 to recenter over and over again is a hassle.  Has anyone ever found a better way?

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  • It would be *nice* if the screen would come up with the usual forward EZDoc view and when I look directly forward and press a button it would accept that as the center...finding the right view is a pill!  Is there a logical technique?
  • I disabled the 'center out of range' but it still does it...I'm looking down and it's looking back forward.  Hmmm.
  • When I press F9, instead of stopping moving right where I'm looking it recenters too.  I wish it would just stay right there so I can click the buttons on the FMS or whatever I'm looking at.  I suck at clicking buttons with it turned on...the buttons and knobs keep moving around.
  • I guess you can't switch views (oxymoronic, perhaps) but I find it difficult, so far, to look down at the center console or overhead to check or click things

 

Gregg, I don't understand the problems you are having - except maybe the last one. Regarding that one, creating a usable profile that also allows you to look up at an overhead may be too much of a compromise, although you could edit the pitch axis curve to be super-sensitive at the outer extremes. However, you ought to be able to create separate views with EZCA and switch between them. That works fine for me - I am an EZCA camera view novice but I have a view to switch me over to the right hand seat in the Twin Otter so I can look out the right of the aircraft. The TrackIR works properly with whichever view is displayed. BUT it reverts to the default position of the view when you switch to it - so, for example, if I move my eyepoint up or down (I have a knob to do this on my panel), if I switch to the right seat and back, the seat position has reset to default.

 

For your other problems, you need to say more. Mine works just as you say you want yours to - I look forward, press the 'centre' button and it centres on where I am looking. I never have to recentre it, even if I get up, go for a cup of tea and come back, just as long as I don't take my hat off. And when I look at, say, the GPS and press the TrackIR 'pause' (or EZCA pause), it stays looking at the GPS. When I unpause, it tracks back correctly with reference to the centre view I set before.

 

Here's a question. Are you sure you have the tracking target set to 'TrackClip' and not 'TrackClip Pro' (upper left of the main TrackIR screen? That would cause your axes to be 90 degrees off and would be very confusing! The only other thing I can think is maybe your camera keeps losing the target. As others have said, you can check this with the 'camera' view to make sure you have three (and only three) solid green blobs all the time.

 

It sounds like regardless of your headache problem your TrackIR is behaving oddly. Can you post a video and show the problematic behaviour?

Here's a question. Are you sure you have the tracking target set to 'TrackClip' and not 'TrackClip Pro' (upper left of the main TrackIR screen? That would cause your axes to be 90 degrees off and would be very confusing! The only other thing I can think is maybe your camera keeps losing the target. As others have said, you can check this with the 'camera' view to make sure you have three (and only three) solid green blobs all the time.

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Gregg, I don't understand the problems you are having - except maybe the last one. Regarding that one, creating a usable profile that also allows you to look up at an overhead may be too much of a compromise, although you could edit the pitch axis curve to be super-sensitive at the outer extremes. However, you ought to be able to create separate views with EZCA and switch between them. That works fine for me - I am an EZCA camera view novice but I have a view to switch me over to the right hand seat in the Twin Otter so I can look out the right of the aircraft. The TrackIR works properly with whichever view is displayed. BUT it reverts to the default position of the view when you switch to it - so, for example, if I move my eyepoint up or down (I have a knob to do this on my panel), if I switch to the right seat and back, the seat position has reset to default.

For your other problems, you need to say more. Mine works just as you say you want yours to - I look forward, press the 'centre' button and it centres on where I am looking. I never have to recentre it, even if I get up, go for a cup of tea and come back, just as long as I don't take my hat off. And when I look at, say, the GPS and press the TrackIR 'pause' (or EZCA pause), it stays looking at the GPS. When I unpause, it tracks back correctly with reference to the centre view I set before.

 

I think I may be setting my head position wrong?  This is what happens.  I start the sim and the TrackIR is on.  At this point my view is off...bad.  I have to look up at the camera, press F12, look down and check it...if it's not right I look up again to a slightly different spot, press F12...repeat, repeat, repeat until it's right.  Clicking to change views in EZDok does nothing other than change the zoom.  If I press F9 it goes back to default EZDok behavior with the camera pointed at the EZDok camera view...not frozen where I pressed F9.  Also, if the sensor (which is set correctly) goes out of view from the camera, it reverts back to forward.  So that's the state of things.  I feel like I might be dense on this or something.

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You need high fps. As someone else mentioned, 60fps is ideal and very possible at 1920x1080

 

You do not need 60fps. I am capped at 40 and usually get 25-40 and TrackIR works just fine. On my old setup (Core2 Duo at 4GHz with the same triple screen display) I got 25 fps if I was lucky and TrackIR still worked fine. If it's jerky and skips you need to sort things out so it gets enough processor time. You can do this with the EZCA process priority selector, and/or use AffinityMask. I would think a consistent 60fps is in any case very optimistic for many (most?) of us.

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I start the sim and the TrackIR is on.  At this point my view is off...bad.  I have to look up at the camera, press F12, look down and check it...if it's not right I look up again to a slightly different spot, press F12...repeat, repeat, repeat until it's right.

 

Well this is clearly not right. I would guess your EZCA default view is set incorrectly. This can happen if you use the hat switch in EZCA. I suggest you do this:

 

Start TrackIR and FSX but leave your hat off (sensor out of range) - this should show you what your default EZCA view is. It will also be what you get when you have your hat on, look straight forward and press 'centre' (F12 for you). If what you see is looking off randomly off-centre, you need to edit the EZCA view. I can't recall what the default keystroke is (for me it's CTRL+NUM2) but you get the 'ding, ding, ding' noise to shows you're editing. Move the view back to centred with the mouse, then exit the editor (CTRL+NUM2 again in my case). It should now work as you expect.

 

Assuming this is what you find, try using the hat switch. For me this pans the view but also affects the default view - in other words the default view remembers what you've done with the hat switch, which seems fairly useless to me. Honestly I have not figured out how the hat switch works in EZCA so I avoid it. It helps that none of my proper flight yokes have hat switches ;)

 

(BTW, all this presumes you have actually installed EZCA correctly for use with TrackIR.)

 

 

I should also say I am using FSX and EZCA 1.17, not P3D. But this sound like basic functionality, not something subtle.

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Wish we were within a short driving distance to come over and try to fix what's wrong. That's the sort of thing we do here locally within our flight club. Hope you find and fix it.

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I think I may be setting my head position wrong? This is what happens. I start the sim and the TrackIR is on. At this point my view is off...bad. I have to look up at the camera, press F12, look down and check it..

 

Gregg, why do you look up at the camera and then press F12, of course your view will be off when you look straight ahead, you have set it whilst looking up at the camera.

Just look straight ahead and then press re center, as long as you don't shift around in your chair too much the view should not go out of position.

It is also really helpful to set a joystick/yoke button to F12, makes resetting the view much easier.

 

I set my curves to different values for left and right, faster curve to look left and also set the outer part of the look down axis to a greater value in order to glance down at the center consol. that way I can pan down at a nice speed when looking ahead at the instrument panel but looking further down quickly brings the center consol into view.

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Rob, you must have a very steady head!...very sensitive settings.

 

Try "Speed" = lowest value and "smooth" equal to highest value, don't touch the default profile and allow for auto center.  Now make sure you're in "Precision" mode (F7 I think).

 

I map TrackIR enable/disable key to one of my GoFlight button so I can turn it on/off ... I usually only have TrackIR on during taxi, takeoff, landing ... maybe if I doing some sight seeing trips.

 

Optimal sensor distance is 24-36 inches from head reflector to sensor, max of 48 inches ... with my 50" monitor I'm actually a little more than 48 inches, but it still works.

 

The biggest problem I have with TrackIR is that my "silver" hair tends to confuse the sensor :)

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I've tried on and off for years with my TrackIR 5, but have never enjoyed using it.  It's really "cool", but then drives me nuts having to hold my head still. 

 

I never thought to have a joystick toggle button to only use it while I want... that's actually a great idea.  I can use it when I want and then go back to my trusted HAT switch for normal stuff.

 

Maybe my 10th time of setting it up won't result in it going back to the closet in two days for another six months ha

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Hi guys,

 

Just got back from a 400 mile road trip with my daughter.  I'm going to try these ideas in the morning.  It seems I've been doing it wrong...or at least I hope that's what it is.  Honestly, I had no idea how EZDok and TrackIR work together.

 

Gregg

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When I first started using it, it really made me dizzy and sick to my stomach. Kept playing and then I did what Rob did. I have a CH yoke and I mapped the F9 (on/off) and F12(center) to the rocker on the right grip.

 

A quick flick with my thumb and my view is centered. Most of the time I leave it off - didn't do that initially and got a stiff neck trying to hold still.

 

One other advantage of using the rocker - let's say I want to look down at a radio stack below the pedestal -

 

Several options - use hat switch and try to get it lined up, press the A key and find the view or with TIR

 

F9 rocker to turn off TIR

 

Look UP and hit F12 rocker to center

 

F9 rocker to turn TIR on

 

look slightly down

 

it takes much longer to type this than to do it. Same procedure if I want to look over my left shoulder - OFF - look far RIGHT - center - on - look slightly left

 

And a quick flick and I'm centered and forward

 

I really  cannot fly without it any more.

 

Vic

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When I first started using it, it really made me dizzy and sick to my stomach. Kept playing and then I did what Rob did. I have a CH yoke and I mapped the F9 (on/off) and F12(center) to the rocker on the right grip.

 

A quick flick with my thumb and my view is centered. Most of the time I leave it off - didn't do that initially and got a stiff neck trying to hold still.

 

One other advantage of using the rocker - let's say I want to look down at a radio stack below the pedestal -

 

Several options - use hat switch and try to get it lined up, press the A key and find the view or with TIR

 

F9 rocker to turn off TIR

 

Look UP and hit F12 rocker to center

 

F9 rocker to turn TIR on

 

look slightly down

 

it takes much longer to type this than to do it. Same procedure if I want to look over my left shoulder - OFF - look far RIGHT - center - on - look slightly left

 

And a quick flick and I'm centered and forward

 

I really  cannot fly without it any more.

 

Vic

This is why I've always hated it summarized perfectly, with a solution.  I will give this a try, thanks!

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It becomes second nature after a bit. Have fun!

 

Vic

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It's really "cool", but then drives me nuts having to hold my head still. 

 

I would say if you have to hold your head still you have not set it up correctly. It's a head tracker, of course, so moving your head is going to move the view. But the vendor's name is 'Natural Point' and if it's intruding so much then something is not right.

 

I think the problem is most people (me included) start by trying to use TrackIR out of the box, with generic profiles that can't possibly work well for everyone. A good profile will have a flat spot around the centre position so you don't have to hold your head still. This is like setting a null zone on your joystick but much more sophisticated because you have complete control over transition into and out of that null zone, independently for each of your six degrees of freedom (actually twelve, since as some have observed here it can be asymmetric for, say, left/right or up/down, etc.) It pays to spend time on this so it works naturally for you and for your particular setup. I am really surprised there have been no third-party tools for setting up a TrackIR profile. (Or perhaps there have and I heven't noticed them!)

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