54 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

I find that incredibly hard to believe, and would ask you for your actual source on this. I have a feeling that it is some random website with a very targeted crowd.

A lot of the surveys people push as "proof" aren't very well sourced. A lot of them do not have a representative sample for the whole sim community. As an example, a survey run on X-Aviation - a site targeted at X-Plane users - would not likely provide a representative sample of the simming community as a whole. Similarly, standing outside of a Target and asking "Walmart or Target" would likely have a biased, and improper, skew toward Target. Great for pushing the idea that people prefer Target, but if anyone were to take a look at the method behind the survey, they'd quickly toss it aside as flawed.

Just have a quick glance at the Steam stats for the two sims. While that isn't the whole community, I'd argue that it's a reasonable approximation. Additionally, it's not a simple response-driven survey. It's a survey driven by behavior, which avoid issues of response biases (like someone who prefers and has case upon case of Pepsi at home, but knows Coke is more popular and answers that they prefer Coke so as to not be embarrassed and fit in, etc).

What that doesn't account for is the users that have both FSX and X-plane

11 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

What that doesn't account for is the users that have both FSX and X-plane

It absolutely does, though. How does it not?

Stat Group A: 500
Stat Group B: 500

Distribution 1:1

User A places into Stat Group A and Stat Group B

Stat Group A: 501
Stat Group B: 501

Distribution 1:1

It introduces some skew, but as I mentioned earlier, the statistics include behavior-based metrics. As User A cannot participate in Stat Group A and Stat Group B simultaneously, the "Hours Played" metric avoids the skew issue, particularly when you break it down for hours played over group size.

Again, while I'll admit it's not an entire community metric, it's going to be one of the most statistically-relevant data sets out in the community.

I've actually have avoided this forum other than to peep in and see what's coming down the pipeline. The sarcasm here. I'm chime in here. I understand PMDG position as well as the O.P.. I myself own all 3 of them do to the this platform not having this aircraft and another that has. I sure wish PMDG would reverse their stance on somethings. I own both the PMDG 777 and the FF 777 and PMDG destroys that thing by a mile. Yes i know about the IXEG 737 but its no NGX. I haven't purchased it due to me moving to XPLANE for good. Excluding the pending sarcasm coming way, I sure would enjoy their aircraft in XPLANE. IMHO, just release one tube liner, just one and see how the XPLANE community responds, before totally writing us off. Now let the sarcasm begin!

So, without knowing the specifics, I'll throw a back of the napkin calculations under the proverbial Mr. Skinner's bus.

Let's say it takes about 6 developer-years to develop such a product (I am probably a little off, but I am trying to be somewhat conservative). As these are not beginner projects, I am going to assume that 1 more-than-average developer costs their employer in the vicinity of $150k annually (again, I am probably off on the safe side). Only the development cost then comes down to roughly $900k, and that's excluding artwork, licensing arrangements, and other overhead. I'd say, it costs around $1,250,000 to develop one of these high quality sims that PMDG makes, +/- me having no idea what I'm talking about after 20+ years of experience in IT industry.

Unless I am way off, and even if I am 50% off the mark, this is not a matter "just develop it, and see how we respond". It would have to be a serious commitment of resources on PMDGs end to produce such a product, and I am 100% certain they are considering that on an ongoing basis, and making business decisions based on the data we don't have. To do it on a whim, would be potentially disastrous for a small software enterprise in niche market.

Dude....this why I don't come on here to many smart arses.  I said I enjoy their aircraft and compared to what's on XPlane now PMDG would kill them. Now if their number crunching says different then that's their business. All I did was point out the quality of some aircraft XP is lacking. 

11 minutes ago, oskiatl said:

Dude....this why I don't come on here to many smart arses.  I said I enjoy their aircraft and compared to what's on XPlane now PMDG would kill them. Now if their number crunching says different then that's their business. All I did was point out the quality of some aircraft XP is lacking. 

Unfortunately it seems that if anyone brings up X-Plane here, it turns into a X-Plane vs P3D/FSX battle.

Btw just so you're aware, PMDG require full first and last names in the forums.

57 minutes ago, oskiatl said:

Dude....this why I don't come on here to many smart arses.  I said I enjoy their aircraft and compared to what's on XPlane now PMDG would kill them. Now if their number crunching says different then that's their business. All I did was point out the quality of some aircraft XP is lacking. 

I am sorry if I came off as a smartass. I was actually trying not to be, and tried to underestimate the cost. I suppose that I got carried away. Sorry for that. I understand the position of XPlane users, but for some reason there appears to be very little appeal of that platform to the top-of-the-line add-on developers. Whatever the reason may be, but a safe asumption is elevated risk of an unknown new platform to support.

9 hours ago, icemarkom said:

I am sorry if I came off as a smartass. I was actually trying not to be, and tried to underestimate the cost. I suppose that I got carried away. Sorry for that. I understand the position of XPlane users, but for some reason there appears to be very little appeal of that platform to the top-of-the-line add-on developers. Whatever the reason may be, but a safe asumption is elevated risk of an unknown new platform to support.

I know I've been on your case recently (sorry), but I didn't see any issue with your earlier post. It was a well thought out, reasoned, post, that clearly explained your viewpoint.

23 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

I find that incredibly hard to believe, and would ask you for your actual source on this. I have a feeling that it is some random website with a very targeted crowd.

A lot of the surveys people push as "proof" aren't very well sourced. A lot of them do not have a representative sample for the whole sim community. As an example, a survey run on X-Aviation - a site targeted at X-Plane users - would not likely provide a representative sample of the simming community as a whole. Similarly, standing outside of a Target and asking "Walmart or Target" would likely have a biased, and improper, skew toward Target. Great for pushing the idea that people prefer Target, but if anyone were to take a look at the method behind the survey, they'd quickly toss it aside as flawed.

Just have a quick glance at the Steam stats for the two sims. While that isn't the whole community, I'd argue that it's a reasonable approximation. Additionally, it's not a simple response-driven survey. It's a survey driven by behavior, which avoid issues of response biases (like someone who prefers and has case upon case of Pepsi at home, but knows Coke is more popular and answers that they prefer Coke so as to not be embarrassed and fit in, etc).

Agree with what you say but TBH I wouldn't know if the survey/report were viable or not. I still cannot find it although it were only a few days ago. 

If I happen to come across it again I'll be sure to point you in the right direction 

I gave up on X-Plane... there's no good tubeliners on there. FF is a joke... so is JARDesign, and I don't really care for IXEG, I don't like flying old planes. If or when PMDG makes planes for X-Plane, then I may switch back.

On 20/08/2016 at 8:10 PM, scandinavian13 said:

You're welcome to ask, but I thought we all graduated from repeating questions like this when we were oh...say...3?

I'm afraid not.......my 5 year old still constantly asks why??

 

oops sorry........just noticed this was an old post........my bad

Edited July 11, 20178 yr by loonyknownothing
I was a numpty

On 7/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, captain420 said:

I gave up on X-Plane... there's no good tubeliners on there. FF is a joke... so is JARDesign, and I don't really care for IXEG, I don't like flying old planes. If or when PMDG makes planes for X-Plane, then I may switch back.

Yeah, that is the biggest draw back with XPLANE 

Well, Steam statistic tells us, that FSX has ~3,406 users online per day, and X-Plane 10+11 ~579 users online per day.

I know that stat excludes P3D and versions of XP bought directly from Laminar. Still, I think that stat is somewhat close to reality. I think that, unless X-plane user base will grow close to FSX user base at least, we should not expect 737 from PMDG.

Anyways I use both sims, depending on current mood :D

I do enjoy FF on par with PMDG though. Wouldn't say "it's a joke" 

 

31 minutes ago, naigovan said:

I do enjoy FF on par with PMDG though

I must have missed this, what is FF?

50 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

I must have missed this, what is FF?

Flight Factor. They make these:

http://flightfactor.aero/

Some are better than others, but generally speaking they are very nice and relatively complex airliners. The trouble is, much of what else is lacking in XPlane limits the ability to enjoy them to the full. XPlane is great for VFR GA flying (or at least it is if you can manage to get to the runway in your Cessna given that ground handling in XPlane is appalling). But this aside, it just cannot square up to FSX or P3D when it comes to simulating an IFR airliner flight in detail, becuase the flight planning and ATC is not as good (even when you add plug ins for it), nor are the weather generation options, which are limited by several factors. LR keep promising this is coming, but they've been saying that for years. It is a shame because these are some really good airliners available for XPlane and the simulator itself does have a lot of other nice features such as sloped runways, good lighting etc. Sadly however, it's no wonder PMDG are loathe to commit to developing for it when this is the state of affairs.