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Manny

What combination of Addons for UK/Heathrow is reasonable?

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I have a powerful PC and a good video card. i7-6700K 4.5Ghz and GTX1070 and  not extreme settings in P3D either. But I am unable to fly around EGLL without OOMs and bad FPS. PMDG 777

 

This is what I had. VFR Horizon photoscenery for the south of UK. Although I own the VFR Horizon for entire UK, I only installed it for the Southern part of UK (London area) with Autogen Trees. UK2000 EGLL. I deactivated the London City completely.   I have F1 UTraffic but I use the Airtraffic manager to keep target count at 10.

 

I was getting 600VAS but quickly atrophies down to 250.

 

Yesterday I purchased British Isle Night environment  and could not use it..even if I reduce the settings in NE

 

I then deactivated VFR Horizon and autogen trees.

 

I still could not use NE so I had to deactivate that too.

 

I do not have Orbx UK. Did not buy it thinking I cannot afford any VAS.

 

 

 

I managed to to do a complete flght from EGLL to EHAm with the following addons.

 

1) UK2000 EGLL, default ground, to EHAM old Aerosoft EHAM and Night Environment Benelux in medium settings. (Default ground, I had to deactivate NL2000) 

 

I am unable to use the following addons I have

 

1) NL2000 (Amazing freeware project with Photosceneries nad autogens)

2) Night Environment British Isles

3) VFR Horizon Photosceneries for UK.

4) VFR London

 

I was planning to enhance entire France with VFR France and NE France...but decided against it..

 

I am thinking the best thing to do is, get the Orbx Global and maybe Vector with basic high level settings only) and few MEga Airports ..That's it..for flying airlines within the US and Europe.

 

Use all other addons only for distant Islands like the Caribbean's, Dubai, Hongkong... etc..  

 

My thought were always get as many addons for a single area like UK or France or California and make that zone as gorgeous as possible ( I added KSAN, KSNA, KLAX, Aerosoft LA Downtown, MS CA HD, Autogens , NE California, and made that area unflyable....but then once I do that, I cannot fly in that area.. This is the mistake I have been making. 

 

So I am wondering ...For folks who fly out of UK EGLL , what combination of Addons do you have setup making it work where it doesn't overwhelm your system?

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Manny,

Like you and quite a few others, I have some issues around EGLL, depending on the usual things like scenery settings and weather.

 

I have a slightly less powerful system than yours with i7 2600k and GTX970 + GTX 570  running P3D 3.2.3.  I can't comment on any PMDG aircraft, but I run a multi screen home cockpit - Embraer 195, which is probably equally demanding.

 

I don't monitor vas because I don't usually have that problem, but I often notice low fps and stuttering around EGLL. Like you, I use the UK2000 version, but I've seen reports of similar issues with the AS version.

 

I use FTX Global and Open LC Europe, with UTX2 Europe which in the past had fewer issues than vector, though that may have changed now.   P3D is at 2048 textures and medium high settings, with ASN for weather.

 

One thing I installed which proved to be a killer was the AS version of VFR London with their London City airport. With that enabled, any  27 arrivals or 09 departures at EGLL were not very pretty.

I suppose VFR London is old software now and not well optimised for P3D. It's now uninstalled.

 

The earlier AS Mega Airport Heathrow was a disappointment in FS2004 and FSX. I had hoped for a big improvement, but EGLL has become another airport on my system which I rarely use.

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What version of P3D do you use, Manny? If you have all of those addons installed and active, how quickly do you suffer an OOM when starting at EGLL London Heathrow? After flying for a short time? Just after take off? When you are still taxiing to the runway? I generally only do circuits of individual airports in my PMDG 737NGX (taxi/take off/pattern/land/taxi), or short low level VFR flights between two major UK airports. I have not flown into Heathrow from another airport for some time, but I can complete the "circuit" flights at this airport with the following enabled.....

 

* UK2000 London Heathrow Xtreme

* UK2000 London City Xtreme

* Aerosoft VFR London X

* All other UK2000 Xtreme airports

* PlayHorizon VFR Photographic Scenery Volume 1

* PlayHorizon VFR Photographic Scenery Volume 2

* UK2000 VFR Airfields Volumes 1/2/3

* ES Treescapes Volumes 1/2

* FSX Freeware Project electricity pylons and wind turbines

* Over a hundred AI airliners (detailed FAIB/TFS/DJC/Aardvark models with high resolution textures) at the airport (equivalent to Ultimate Traffic 2 @ 100%), plus many more in the skies and at other airports

* Freeware Global AI Ship Traffic (entire database)

* REX Essential Plus SP3 (Sun/skies/concrete and asphalt taxiways)

 

My scenery complexity, autogen density, texture resolution and mesh resolution settings are at maximum, with LOD Radius set to high (4.5), and water to ultra.

4x MSAA/16x AF/4x SGSS

1920x1080 resolution

Global texture resolution @ 1024

Weather is calm with clear skies.

 

I suspect that I could fly into Heathrow from another UK airport without major problems if I disabled VFR London X.

Framerates are good enough on my i5 4690k @ 4.6Ghz/16GB Kingston Hyper X Fury DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GTX 770 powered PC.

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What version of P3D do you use, Manny? If you have all of those addons installed and active, how quickly do you suffer an OOM when starting at EGLL London Heathrow?

 

WOW Chris... I am surprised you could do that with all those addons installed.. Hmmm..

 

I have P3D V3.3.5

 

I end up OOminmg once I leave EGLL and go past London and then look around... 

 

 

One thing I installed which proved to be a killer was the AS version of VFR London with their London City airport

 

OK..So I won't activate it then.

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Manny,

It certainly looks like you have something unusual eating vas. For comparison, had you previously had any other version of P3D running successfully on your current pc with your PMDG aircraft. If so, what was different?  You mentioned problems at US airports as well as EGLL, so it looks like it may be a combination of softwares causing the issue.

 

You say you have already tried disabling most of your addons, so I think if it were me, I would do a fresh install of P3D and then install only the PMDG 777 and see what vas was like at various locations. Then add a scenery area somewhere and test again. Then add an airport to that area and test again. etc.etc.

 

It's a painfully slow process, but at least it should highlight one or more addons which cause problems.

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had you previously had any other version of P3D running successfully on your current pc

 

This is a new build.. I do not have any previous version of the P3D Sim installed on this new build...from day one..this is a full install of P3D V3.3.5

 

The thought of reinstalling everything makes me feel faint! Where is the smelling salt! I have the vapours! LOL :P

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I know that feeling. I suppose you could start from the other end and uninstall one lot of software at a time and see what difference it makes.

 

The problem with this approach is that when a system appears to be underperforming, it may be because one addon is interfering with another addon in some way. So even if the addon which caused the problem is uninstalled, the problem may still remain. And then when you remove the second addon, if the situation improves, the cause will be attributed to the wrong addon.

 

You have a capable system, so is the system fully stable under load.  4.5/4.6  is common for the 6700k, but voltage requirements for stability under load seem to vary. There have been several recent Avsim posts about this with recommendations for testing.

 

Similarly with memory. While XMP settings should always work, some memory modules at those XMP settings may be operating closer to their limits than others with higher quality chips. Again, weaknesses may only show up under load.

 

Just a few thoughts to stop you getting bored.

 

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Manny, I have almost the same specs like yours. What works 100% for me around UK2000 EGLL, EGLC, EGKK, EGCC installed is the following combination:

FTX Global + UTX 2.1. + UK2000 airports. My LOD is 5.5, autogen buildings and trees are at DENSE, Scenery is 1 notch below the highest, and water is at MEDIUM, Tesselation at high. PMDG777 with AS2016 (on a client) are no problem VAS-vise.

I've tried GEP3D + UTX Europe 2.1 COMBO, while VAS is even better, the current GB/Europe coloring is just ridiculous, it hurts, nogo.

Dirk.

 

PS: mind you no HT! (it may also affect VAS I read somewhere here) and AM=14


I use FTX Global and Open LC Europe, with UTX2 Europe which in the past had fewer issues than vector, though that may have changed now.   P3D is at 2048 textures and medium high settings, with ASN for weather.

 

Biggles, I'd like to add OpenLC Europe to my FTXGlobal+UTX2 Europe, so where do I need to place the OLC entries in the scenery.cfg? Can I just install OLC ontop? Unfortunately current Vector is still too heavy on VAS.

 

One issue that I'm having with my current FTXGloba+UTX2 is some white patches in the cities that somewhat stick out from the otherwise nice coloring. I'd like to try and add FTX OLC Europe that I also have and see if it fixes them. Otherwise UTX Eu v2.1 LC is not bad at all. Why did you decide to use FTX OLC Europe btw?

 

Thanks,

Dirk. 

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Manny, I have almost the same specs like yours. What works 100% for me around UK2000 EGLL, EGLC, EGKK, EGCC installed is the following combination:

 

FTX Global + UTX 2.1. + UK2000 airports. My LOD is 5.5, autogen buildings and trees are at DENSE, Scenery is 1 notch below the highest, and water is at MEDIUM, Tesselation at high. PMDG777 with AS2016 (on a client) are no problem VAS-vise.

 

I've tried GEP3D + UTX Europe 2.1 COMBO, while VAS is even better, the current GB/Europe coloring is just ridiculous, it hurts, nogo.

 

Dirk.

 

PS: mind you no HT! (it may also affect VAS I read somewhere here) and AM=14

 

Biggles, I'd like to add OpenLC Europe to my FTXGlobal+UTX2 Europe, so where do I need to place the OLC entries in the scenery.cfg? Can I just install OLC ontop? Unfortunately current Vector is still too heavy on VAS.

 

One issue that I'm having with my current FTXGloba+UTX2 is some white patches in the cities that somewhat stick out from the otherwise nice coloring. I'd like to try and add FTX OLC Europe that I also have and see if it fixes them. Otherwise UTX Eu v2.1 LC is not bad at all. Why did you decide to use FTX OLC Europe btw?

 

Thanks,

Dirk. 

 

When you install Open LC it will probably go by default to near the top of the scenery library, with Orbx libraries just above it. Orbx seem to assume that nobody would use any addons other than their own.  After install I moved it down, keeping the multiple Open LC folders in the same order, below all my addon european airports. I tried positioning Open LC  above and then below the entries for UTX2 EU. From memory, when it was above there were some small anomalies with road/river crossings. I currently have Open LC below the UTX2 entries in the scenery library, with both of them below all other European airport addons. This seems to work for me.

 

There are some useful discussions about the best positioning for UTX on SimForums. The developers are both active and very helpful, although users seem to have as many opinions as there are postings, .

Orbx publish a guide on their website but personally I found it of limited use because it tries to avoid any reference to competing products. I would hesitate to ask on the Orbx forum because you'll probably be flamed for using UTX2.

 

I used FTX Global with UTX2 for a while before installing Open LC, but I don't rcall seeing the white patches you refer to. I went for Open LC because the landclass is better localised with textures and autogen more realistic for the various parts of Europe. In the past I used GEX+UTX with FSX, but GEX was restricted from use in P3D. By the time GEP3D came out I already had Open LC Europe.

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I can tell you right now after being in this since 1999 you will not get an area more OOM-tastic than London no matter what some GURU from p3d tells you or trys to sell you, its a mess and even more so at night.

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Some basic rules always apply. Aerosoft EGLL with PMDG are fine provided that you are using FTX Global , LC, and (a toned down) Vector only. Forget about FTX England.

 

I managed a flight in Seattle last week with T2G Seatlle Airport, and all the FTX addons except the full PNW region. Toned down all my settlings to mid-way and was able to take off, fly around and land at KSEA again. No OOM, but the VAS monitor hovered around 85% VAS.

 

It doesn't really matter how powerful your system is, there is a limit beyond which the sim cannot go with regards memory. I would also disable Gatwick scenery if you have that installed.

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I can tell you right now after being in this since 1999 you will not get an area more OOM-tastic than London no matter what some GURU from p3d tells you or trys to sell you, its a mess and even more so at night.

Are you referring to the London area in general or EGLL in particular?  Certainly they both stress the system. Others say the same about New York. It's disappointing, but an inevitable result of trying to work with old and inefficient coding.

 

Personally I tend to use Scandinavia, the Mediterranean areas, or the Middle East, where there are some excellent addons available without massive system overload. 

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NY is also a big drain on VAS, as is Los Angeles.  But nothing comes close to London.  Ill agree LM have done a good job in recoding so the vas goes up and down, but microsoft did such a crap job in the beginning that the London vas issue is unfixable.

 

For example, tonight im going to fly from KMCO to OMDB...  i could spend 13 hours watching the VAS usage go and and down all night and think to myself my god LM youve done an amazing job, if this was FSX the vas would be going down and down and down and I might not make it or id be touching cloth by the time I got there.

 

Alas you try and fly from EGLL to EGKK twice at night with the aerosoft a320 and few addons your knackered, you cant and its that which LM cant and wont fix, hence my same hooker different dress metaphor.

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Alas you try and fly from EGLL to EGKK twice at night with the aerosoft a320 and few addons your knackered, you cant and its that which LM cant and wont fix, hence my same hooker different dress metaphor.

 

While I appreciate the intent of your content,but if you would explain the last paragraph, I'd be chuffed.

 

Your cheeky notion that just because MS boluxed the whole thing in the first place, LM continues the clanger, justifies the current manky situation leaves me knackered.

 

Are you having a laugh, or are you barmy??

 

Or, is ...Bob my uncle?

 

Or maybe,

 

...just.... 'Splain Lucy!

 

Chas

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When you install Open LC it will probably go by default to near the top of the scenery library, with Orbx libraries just above it. Orbx seem to assume that nobody would use any addons other than their own.  After install I moved it down, keeping the multiple Open LC folders in the same order, below all my addon european airports. I tried positioning Open LC  above and then below the entries for UTX2 EU. From memory, when it was above there were some small anomalies with road/river crossings. I currently have Open LC below the UTX2 entries in the scenery library, with both of them below all other European airport addons. This seems to work for me.

 

Terrific walkthrough, thanks a lot. I've sent you some of my screenshots in PM and I'm installing OLC EU right now. If it is too much of VAS impact I roll back to my previous state. Btw, it's easy to move all OLC entries by using FTXCentral tool, you just drag OLC representation line down below but just above UTX Landclass (Custom, Urban, Vegetation) entries. If you don't manually remove/disable those by UTX I believe you should have your current landclass ABOVE your previous one, please confirm.

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

 

PS: just in case, check out your ORBX!OPENLC_EUROPEX position in P3D Scenery Library.  To some reason  EUROPE10 always tends to go right below EUROPE1 (old story), so I manually move it in the Lirbrary below EUROPE9 entry, but I don't know if it affects anything. Also, I've disabled UT Landclass entries in the Library.

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Btw, it's easy to move all OLC entries by using FTXCentral tool, you just drag OLC representation line down below but just above UTX Landclass (Custom, Urban, Vegetation) entries. If you don't manually remove/disable those by UTX I believe you should have your current landclass ABOVE your previous one, please confirm.

 

 

PS: just in case, check out your ORBX!OPENLC_EUROPEX position in P3D Scenery Library. To some reason EUROPE10 always tends to go right below EUROPE1 (old story), so I manually move it in the Lirbrary below EUROPE9 entry, but I don't know if it affects anything. Also, I've disabled UT Landclass entries in the Library.

 

I hadn't set an Orbx entry point, but It's something I will do in due course. The last software load was a reinstall on a new SSD, so I loaded most addons in pretty much the sequence I wanted them in the library.   Regarding the landclass order, that is also my understanding. I'm not at the sim right now but from memory I had unticked some of the UTX landclass entries.

 

I had noticed the Orbx stuff appears out of sequence in the scenery library. When I moved them into numerical order it didn't seem to affect operation, but any time I ran FTX Central, the Orbx entries in the scenery Library were shuffled back out of sequence again, so I decided to leave them.

 

How do you find the Heathrow area looks on your system now with Open LC installed, and did it get rid of the white patches you had mentioned.

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How do you find the Heathrow area looks on your system now with Open LC installed, and did it get rid of the white patches you had mentioned.

 

John, actually I like it very much what I'm seeing now in London area. FTXGlobal+UTX+OLC + UK2000 airports is an excellent combination (seemingly better than FTXVector!). I'll be flying (travelling) to Heathrow next week anyway so I'll refresh my mental picture of the surroundings and compare it to P3D. ))  I'll need to check VAS with PMDG777 in the area yet and then, hopefully, I'm totally happy with all my tweaks and add-on combinations. I can say already that I'm close to flying in the area with most settings higher than medium! I'll post my final results.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

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I can fly out of egll but close to the 4gig limit something around the lam vor allways triggers a 500mb jump in vas reguardless of plane or scenary combo cant locate it . Unless i leave egll with 750mb of vas free i will oom can just do it on low settings no vector no ftx england flying a 747 . Wish i could find the vas drain spent several fruitless hours disbleing scenary .

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