Donald Traill

Engine design and "Chemtrails"

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People who believe in chemtrails always point to contrails being different in appearance or lasting longer than they used to. It seems to me debunkers are really dropping the ball when it comes to the science. I have seen no one touch the fact of how ever increasing bypass ratios in airline engines are the real reason behind the perceived changes in contrails and how they tend to last longer or provide the nucleus of new clouds more often.

 

Contrails really have changed since most of us old timers were kids; why don't we hear more about the real reason why?

 

Donald

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People who believe in chemtrails always point to contrails being different in appearance or lasting longer than they used to. It seems to me debunkers are really dropping the ball when it comes to the science. I have seen no one touch the fact of how ever increasing bypass ratios in airline engines are the real reason behind the perceived changes in contrails and how they tend to last longer or provide the nucleus of new clouds more often.

 

Contrails really have changed since most of us old timers were kids; why don't we hear more about the real reason why?

 

 

Possibly because the chemtrails conspiracy theory is so daft it's not even worthy of a proper rebuttal. It makes 9/11 conspiracies seem quite rational in contrast...

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The "chemtrail" believers don't understand the simple concept of water vapor condensation at the cold air temperatures at high altitudes, how do you think they will ever understand high bypass ratios?  The chemtrail-ers seem to be something of a cult, along with the flat earth-ers and those who still believe the sun, other planets, and entire universe revolves around the earth.  Changing their core belief system is a monumental task.

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Yup thats one for the hardcore tinfoil-hats, and therefore impossible to debunk as they wouldnt understand nor believe it anyways. Same category as "flat earth", "no human was ever in space" and "elvis was abducted by aliens" (which would clash with the "no human ever in space theory")

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I'll just leave this here to let the chemtrail supporters have a blue fit...

 

b17-contrails.jpg

 

Not a jet engine in sight...just big radial, piston engines...

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Something to consider with people who believe in 'chemtrails', and you should note this if you are ever going to try and convince them otherwise...

Simpy don't waste your time. There is no way that any evidence or explanation you present to anyone who believes in conspiracy theories will be good enough, because those who believe in conspiracy theories are of a mindset where they do not want to be convinced otherwise. This is because believing in a conspiracy theory flatters the ego of the person who believes it. The people who espouse such nonsense 'theories' know this, and know they can make money out of those gullible people.

The 'big names' in the world of conspiracy theories know exactly what buttons to press to fool such gullible people, making the easily hoodwinked flatter themselves into believing notions which make them feel special : 'they have not been fooled' as we have, they are a 'fierce warrior who seeks the truth', we are either foolish, or gullible, or even worse, we are 'in on the conspiracy', and so on. That's why you'll be wasting your breath in trying to convince a tin foil hatter; if you try and convince them, you will knock down their cosy house of cards which allows them to believe they are smarter than you, and of course they don't want that.

You can point out any amount of intelligent, sensible facts which highlight how ridiculously implausible a conspiracy theory is, but it won't make any difference. And don't even consider wasting your time trying to convince one of the semi-pro web presence 'champions' of a conspiracy theory (worthless pieces of c*** such as Bart Sibrel, Alex Jones etc), you never will, because despite their protestations about seeking 'da truth', that isn't what they seek at all; they are intellectually dishonest in that regard, they don't want the truth, what they want is to make money out of their nonsensical websites, conspiracy theory books and videos, preying on gullible people who think just because something is on youtube, it must be true. Such people are carpet baggers of the worst kind.

It doesn't matter that contrails have been around since WW1, you can point out the fact there is a reference to Allied pilots watching a German reconnaisance two seater up over the lines in 1917 leaving a 'myterious trail' in Canadian WW1 SE5a pilot Bill Lambert's autobiography, Combat Report (which is a good book, worth reading incidentally), it'll make no difference to a dedicated chemtrail believer. So it's certainly nothing new. What is new however, is the fact that there are a lot more commercial flights these days, and they have engines (high bypass turbofans) more inclined to leave a long contrail; which is where all those 'there never used to be contrails like that when I was a kid' claims stem from. It's true, there did never used to be that amount of contrails when we were kids, for an easily explainable reason which would be good enough for any reasonably intelligent person (i.e not a believer in any old rubbish they see on youtube) willing to accept a knowledgeable explanation from you. But like all conspiracy theories, the chemtrail 'theory' uses that grain of truth, then twists it to make it fit and seem convincing to people who are receptive to the idea that we are being controlled by 'da man'.

Of course anyone who has ever worked for any Government organisation knows that most of them can't even agree on where to order their paperclips from, let alone agree with all the other departments which would be involved in order to to pull off some massive cover up: Particularly one which would involve a preposterously implausible amount of logistics: Secret airports, secret road tanker fleets, secret factories to make the chemicals, complicit aircraft manufacturers (and all their designers, workers etc), complicit pilots, ground personnel, air traffic controlers etc, not to mention weight issues for the aircraft and the fact that you never see any politicians outside wearing masks to prevent their own exposure to the chemtrail contents (and presumably they'd be in the know about it if anyone was). We, as pilots all know it's the most laughable claptrap ever, but don't imagine for a second that any amount of facts from you will convince a gullible person otherwise. They'd rather believe that you have either 'been fooled' or that you are 'in on it', because as noted, it makes them feel special.

Anyway, I'm off to cash my monthly cheque that I get from NASA so that I don't reveal 'da troof' about the Moon landings... :Tounge:

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For individuals that instantly deny different viewpoints or theories, you study psychology, history, and physics in that order.  

Psychology

We all form perceptions based on information we see, read or hear.  As we mature, our perceptions form our core belief system. Core beliefs are those things you just know and trust to be true.  When someone offers a different viewpoint that contradicts your core belief system, most individuals will immediately dismiss the new information as not true, and refuse to listen or research the topic with an open mind.   Individuals that suffer from cognitive dissonance often feel displeasure and use words such as conspiracy theorists, tin foil hats to protect their core beliefs.  This is a normal reaction, but your feelings are not the truth.

Galileo proposed that the earth circled the sun.  The church, the people, believed everything circled the earth.  Galileo attacked the core belief’s (perceptions) of the people and was sent to jail. Galileo was a conspiracy theorist.

The mind is like a computer.  If all computers get corrupted with malware, all computers will act and behave in the same fashion.
If peoples minds are filled with the same perceptions (from main stream media, school books etc), then all people will behave in the same fashion.  Conformity.

Is that perception that you believe true,,,, the truth?  How can the truth ever be proven?

We live in a world of lies and the truth will not come to you, you must search for it, but you may never find it.
Think for yourself; don't let others think for you, and don’t let your core belief system fool you.

 

Your feelings are not the truth.

Chemtrails.... Who the heck really knows...
Moon Landings... Who the heck really knows....
911.... Conspiracy proven fact.  Study physics for the truth on that one.

RJ


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OMG, you mean...that stuff is...OMG...why didn't we know about this sooner...

 

Here they are...going about their dastardly activities...

 

We've got to get underground. NOW!

 

and finally, OMG

 

 

contrailscience.com_skitch_DSC01774_2012

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Yup, even PMDG are in on it, look at that switch on the overhead of their 747!

 

CHEM_zpsogebjnbj.png

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OMG - again...

 

I have NEVER known what Pump 2 (circled in red) does in this aircraft - and I've flown it around the world.

 

Have I been an unwitting accessory to this despicable activity???

 

(OMG!)

 

2016_11_13_15_39_59_445.jpg

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OMG - again...

 

I have NEVER known what Pump 2 (circled in red) does in this aircraft - and I've flown it around the world.

 

Have I been an unwitting accessory to this despicable activity???

 

(OMG!)

 

Well that can't be right, how can you have flown it around the world, if the world is flat? And we know it's flat because people say so on youtube.

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Well that can't be right, how can you have flown it around the world, if the world is flat? And we know it's flat because people say so on youtube.

 

Hey, wait a minute; I DID do a lot of it on Autopilot.

 

I did think a few times - if the world is flat, like, how come my altitude isn't increasing, you know, like, FL200, FL 500

about half way round - should have been like, FL 190000.

 

Maybe Autopliots are made by THEM to stop us realising that the world is flat...

 

Maybe the whole Chemtrails thing is tied in somehow.

 

Maybe the whole Chemtrail/ Flat Earth/ Autopilot things is...

 

No answers, just more questions. What have I stumbled upon. I was having a perfectly ordinary Saturday...

 

OMG! x 2

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LOL!  :lol:

 

ganter I fear you are mistaken. That photo of the plane's interior merely shows the installation of Theakston's Old Peculier, Guinness, Tetleys & other assorted beers & lagers for the upcoming airborne kegger celebrating PMDGs latest release ;) Note the yellow and black hazard ramp over the cabling for the pumps so that the strippers don't trip over them ;)

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Chock! HE'S ONE OF THEM.... ^

 

I'm getting out of here. 

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Chemtrails.... Who the heck really knows...
Moon Landings... Who the heck really knows....

 

Who knows? Well, try people who are good at logic, and who don't confuse innuendo and poor science with proof.

 

By the way, disagreeing with something your own organisation says isn't whistleblowing, particularly when you're not even expert in the areas touched on by the investigation. It just makes you a contrarian. Whistleblowers are people who have either witnessed wrongdoign themselves or found proof of it. That video contains not one shred of evidence.

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Pilots turning on switches to create chemtrails is ludicrous, but some people truly believe that as true…  

That form of rumor or technique is called "poisoning the well".  "Poisoning the well" is used to spread false information about a theory, which is then used to discredit that theory.  In many cases, "poisoning the well" is used to a make a theory laughable.  Individuals generally don’t like to be laugh at, so they "conform" with the majority.

 

Getting back to the OP, not only have engines changed, so have all the fuel additives changed in jet fuel.

Have chemtrails changed over time, sure, mainly due to changes in jet fuel (additives), and maybe changes in atmospheric conditions.

Green slime to jet fuel: algae offers airlines a cleaner future
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-germany-biofuels-idUSKCN0Z117F

Thomson to fly planes on cooking oil
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/8610321/Thomson-to-fly-planes-on-cooking-oil.html

This list goes on with jet fuel manipulation, so I could only imagine the appearance, and how long they last will change too.  

The effect of chemtrails on the atmosphere is a science, but some how when the term chemtrial is used, peoples perception is “pilots turning on switches to kill us all”.   

Releasing all these chemicals into the atmosphere is a genuine concern for the health of people and the long term effects of our planet.

Who knows what the long term effects of that chemical that was spread in Florida to fight zika will have..

 

 

 


Who knows? Well, try people who are good at logic, and who don't confuse innuendo and poor science with proof.

 

I have, it's call "Architects and Engineers for 911" and that's who produced that video, Richard Gage.

 

Gravity is a powerful force, but buildings cannot fall at free fall speed unless aided.

Two planes cause three high rise metal structures to fall at free fall speed? 

The laws of physics changed that day.

 

http://www2.ae911truth.org/downloads/911investigator/911investigator_1st_ed_v_1.1.pdf

 

911 is now part of history.   "His" "Story".  Who's story is the truth.

 

RJ

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Gravity is a powerful force, but buildings cannot fall at free fall speed unless aided.

Two planes cause three high rise metal structures to fall at free fall speed? 

 

 

It hasn't even been proven that the towers fell at freefall speed. The science says that it's impossible to be certain how long each tower took to fall, and people who claim otherwise are, surprise surprise, cherry-picking or misrepresenting the evidence.

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I would still like an explanation on something I saw personally a few months ago for the second time (I questioned my memory and senses the first time I saw it but the second time I was sorely wishing I had a camera so you could see).

 

The trail suddenly thinned out for a few seconds, then became thicker again. After the aircraft had moved enough, a short gap could be seen at that spot in the trail.

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Paul, 911 is a very touchy subject , so this will be my last post in this thread.

 

I've studied this topic for years, which led me to study psychology.

I respect your view point, but don't let people prove things for you.
Research the topic for yourself, and draw your own conclusions.
But do so, with an open mind and understand that your core belief system will be challenged.  Mine was...

 

WTC 7 was not hit by any aircraft, yet fall at near free fall speed (6.5 seconds).

The twin towers fell in 10 to 11 seconds. 

People jumping from the tops of the towers took 10 to 11 seconds to hit the ground.

Only air resistance slowed their fall. 

 

What happened to all the steal beams, in all three buildings, to allow that type of acceleration (air resistance only)?

RJ

 

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Utter BS!

After all those years a whistleblower would talk and show evidence, none did.

Impossible to hide this.. image alle the people involved to do this on a large scale.

Utter BS!

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Paul, 911 is a very touchy subject , so this will be my last post in this thread.

 

I've studied this topic for years, which led me to study psychology.

I respect your view point, but don't let people prove things for you.

Research the topic for yourself, and draw your own conclusions.

But do so, with an open mind and understand that your core belief system will be challenged.  Mine was...

 

WTC 7 was not hit by any aircraft, yet fall at near free fall speed (6.5 seconds).

The twin towers fell in 10 to 11 seconds. 

People jumping from the tops of the towers took 10 to 11 seconds to hit the ground.

Only air resistance slowed their fall. 

 

What happened to all the steal beams, in all three buildings, to allow that type of acceleration (air resistance only)?

RJ

 

 

It's interesting that you exhibit the classic behavious of the conspiracy-theorist, that anyone who disagrees hasn't done any research and isn't doing any independent thinking.

 

A few points...

 

1. I have studied psychology too, but the answers to 9/11 don't lie in psychology, they lie in science.

2. Claiming to respect my viewpoint doesn't tally with then claiming that I've allowed other people to do my thinking for me. 

3. WTC7 was not hit by an aircraft, but it was hit by a lot of debris from the collapsing towers (9/11 truthers never mention this).

4. Again, the speed at which the towers fell has not been proven (9/11 truthers never admit to this either).

5 . What is visible in the videos, however, is that debris caused by the collapse and in free-fall itself, is falling faster thatn the collapsing towers. It follows from this that the towers cannot possibly be collapsing at freefall speed. No prizes for guessing how often 9/11 truthers mention this...

 

But you're right. This isn't worth continuiing with as it has been gone into more than enough. The 9/11 conspiracy claims are out there for everyone to read for themselves, and the answers to those claims and science that debunks them isn't hard to find either...for anyone who really wants to know.

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I am no conspiracy theorist i always think pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate...  But, i don't think even the most ardent Alex Jones fan thinks every aircraft is involved in poisoning the atmosphere (well beyond the greenhouse effect).  From what i have read they appear to believe that certain vapour trails are actually chem-trails.  Ones that are bigger or longer lasting.  Of course i believe it's far more likely to be atmospheric conditions, but there is good evidence that the governments of at least the US, China, Russia and the USSR have or do attempt to manipulate the weather.

 

Anyhoo...it's not as worrying as HAARP.  :Tounge:

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I would still like an explanation on something I saw personally a few months ago for the second time (I questioned my memory and senses the first time I saw it but the second time I was sorely wishing I had a camera so you could see).

 

The trail suddenly thinned out for a few seconds, then became thicker again. After the aircraft had moved enough, a short gap could be seen at that spot in the trail.

Contrail formation depends on the amount of water vapor already in the air, and the temperature. The closer the air is to being saturated, the more readily they form. That's why one place that contrails are likely to form is in the air to the northeast of an advancing warm front, because that is an occasion where the amount of water vapor in the upper levels is on the increase.

 

The atmosphere aloft is not perfectly uniform or stable. The aircraft you saw probably passed through a patch of air that was a little more dry than the surrounding air, so the contrail momentarily ceased

 

Local variations in temperature and humidity happen close to the ground too. Not noticeable if one is traveling in a car, but very noticeable when riding a motorcycle - especially in rural areas. The skin is very sensitive to sudden changes in air temperature or moisture.

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