2 hours ago, KevinAu said:

1. Yes, it is absolutely a police officer's responsibility to know when they have jurisdiction over something or not.  That is what it means to be a professional.  It is also the difference between a long career or a suspension, termination, lawsuit, or even criminal charge.

I think you're missing my point. I wholeheartedly agree that UAL/RAH/CPD are in the wrong here for letting it get to this point, and then how they dealt with it. The place for law enforcement to sort this out is not in the aisle. At this point, WHY he is being asked to leave is irrelevant. Get him off the plane and sort it out in the terminal. If he's in the right, then re-board him.

Again, completely mis-handled with a horrible, unprofessional outcome.

Where was the CA in all this? Did he know what was going on? I sure hope so. Where was his involvement in all this prior to CPD being called?

Aaaaaannnnnndddd cue the lawyers for the payday.

Thank you UAL/RAH/CPD/Society as a whole for the precedent this will set once UAL settles. I feel bad for the next crew which has a pax that thinks the proper response to being asked to deboard is to cause a massive scene which will yield a hefty cash payout.

18 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I agree. Once all these "boycotters" realize that UAL gets them a non stop flight, is cheaper or is more convenient, they'll fold. THEN they will be talking out of both sides of their mouth acting like they hate United.

Typical USA society. Blah blah blah and have an opinion, then do absolutely nothing to fix a problem which one tells everyone they are outraged by.

Which pretty much ignores the reality on the ground, which is that at this very moment, the actions of those boycotters and blah blah blah people, which I assume includes the press, social media, investors, possibly Congress and more, are affecting concrete action from the corporate office at United, while sending a clear warning shot across the bow of other airlines, who are probably hastily reviewing their own policies even as we type.

So rather than doing absolutely nothing to fix the problem, people are doing exactly the right thing to fix the problem. 

7 minutes ago, RedSpinnaker said:

I think you're missing my point. I wholeheartedly agree that UAL/RAH/CPD are in the wrong here for letting it get to this point, and then how they dealt with it. The place for law enforcement to sort this out is not in the aisle. At this point, WHY he is being asked to leave is irrelevant. Get him off the plane and sort it out in the terminal. If he's in the right, then re-board him.

Again, completely mis-handled with a horrible, unprofessional outcome.

Where was the CA in all this? Did he know what was going on? I sure hope so. Where was his involvement in all this prior to CPD being called?

no one knows because it wasn't reported. It probably wasn't anything worth to report because it didn't satisfy the public's appetite for drama.

My question is why are we not hearing about the other three that were asked to leave? This is why I mentioned the terrible doctor's past. He was the ONLY one who was being defiant. He has already shown that he doesn't follow rules and that they don't apply to him. It doesn't surprise me that he acted this way.

I agree that chicago police handled this wrongly. However, no one can build a real opinion because we are only seeing the end result. But that doesn't matter.

If the captain didn't do anything, then that's on him. However, if he did what was required in His Flight ops manual, then his hands get more and more tied as the process evolves.

Honestly, as I said before, if someone is this defiant when there's nothing going on safety wise, It rrreeealllyyy makes me wonder how defiant he's going to be when we need him to do something we need him to do for safety.

To those who say safety is not a concern, awhen a passenger makes the decision to act like that, it becomes a safety issue. It wasn't at first, but it becomes one.

Might be fake, might not. But since everyone's outrage is based on a 30 second clip of the final outcome:

 

17 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Which pretty much ignores the reality on the ground, which is that at this very moment, the actions of those boycotters and blah blah blah people, which I assume includes the press, social media, and possibly Congress and more, are affecting concrete action from the corporate office at United, while sending a clear warning shot across the bow of other airlines, who are probably hastily reviewing their own policies even as we type.

So rather than doing absolutely nothing to fix the problem, people are doing exactly the right thing to fix the problem.

Not really, it just won't happen again. out of united's 3765 people who they involuntarily removed last year, this one was a one off issue. It has never been the norm and wont ever be the norm. Lets stop sensationalizing it.

Why does society feel the need to pounce on one event and then make a generalization based off ONE ISOLATED EVENT. Its not the norm.

United is still going to be around. People will still be involuntarily removed from airplanes, and prohibited from boarding, spearheading crews will still deadhead preventing people from flying and people will still fly United because it benefits them.

My final peace on this is that no one know the full story except a handful of people. It was a terrible mismanaged event but it was ONE ISOLATED EVENT! People need to stop applying this one issue to the industry as a whole. That's not smart and frankly shows a severely lack of wisdom and critical thinking.

I hope it fosters an attitude for the public to be educated in all the laws and regulations regarding this industry.

As for individual passengers, most are extremely rude and I have been ridiculed, yelled at and demeaned for my age, my race, turbulence and other things.....all while getting to the destination EARLY!

I have been yelled at, "reprimanded", cusses at for delays because of terrible thunderstorms, de-icing, and getting delayed because of passenger miscounts. All in the name of safety.

The public need to truly educate themselves instead of acting like crews are sun humans. But most people think that because they are flying, they can act like idiots and still get their way.

3 minutes ago, RedSpinnaker said:

Might be fake, might not. But since everyone's outrage is based on a 30 second clip of the final outcome:

 

If that's real, that won't get out much because the way society is, they feel it's better to see anarchy and the underdog win no matter how dirty and wrong the underdog was in order to win.

I have no respect for someone who lacks the wisdom to follow directions and makes everyone else's life harder just to prove THEIR point

54 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Not really, it just won't happen again. out of united's 3765 people who they involuntarily removed last year, this one was a one off issue. It has never been the norm and wont ever be the norm. Lets stop sensationalizing it.

No, it probably won't happen again, at least partially because the policy of overbooking and passenger rights will now be given additional careful scrutiny from relevant authorities in light of this incident, under the now alert and watchful eyes of the public. This is how a lot of flaws are discovered and finally addressed, by making the amount of fuss necessary to get whatever it is fixed/corrected.

How these issues are never fixed/corrected is by sitting back and saying oh, what's the big problem, let's not sensationalize it.

The reason it's not going to go away is that it has tremendous symbolic value - not just about airline service, but about the state of service in general.  This story now stands for everyone who's been abused or disrepected by any corporate service establishment that puts its financials and its investors and its systems ahead of its customers.  That's a lot of service establishments.  And there are a lot of angry people who are ready to fight back.  So that's a story with a lot of life in it.

I know a lot of us don't like attorneys, but in our system, lawsuits are one of the main ways we hold corporations accountable.  They're the stick in a carrot-and-stick scheme.  I just watched the press conference held in Chicago by Dr. Dao's attorney.  Have to say he did a superb job.  

I have to admit I'm floored by the fanatical deference to authority expressed here by some posters.  There is - in the US and elsewhere - an established tradition of civil disobedience.  Do people really want corporations to have even more power over our lives, with even less ability to challenge them?

The Chicago Aviation Police report doesn't match what's shown in videos.  Police reports are not always reliable.

As to the passenger's background, and the way it's shown up in coverage - I thought this was a pretty good take.  

 

1 hour ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I have no respect for someone who lacks the wisdom to follow directions and makes everyone else's life harder just to prove THEIR point

Yep, that Rosa Parks sure was disrespectful.  Disobeyed a direct and legal order from someone in authority - the bus driver.  People these days!

 

2 hours ago, RedSpinnaker said:

I think you're missing my point. I wholeheartedly agree that UAL/RAH/CPD are in the wrong here for letting it get to this point, and then how they dealt with it. The place for law enforcement to sort this out is not in the aisle. At this point, WHY he is being asked to leave is irrelevant. Get him off the plane and sort it out in the terminal. If he's in the right, then re-board him.

Again, completely mis-handled with a horrible, unprofessional outcome.

Where was the CA in all this? Did he know what was going on? I sure hope so. Where was his involvement in all this prior to CPD being called?

I do understand your point. But again, as a professional, it is incumbent upon you to sort out the drunkards from the ornery from the mentally challenged, from the sane and from the the terrorist and deal with each with an appropriate level of violence or non-violence.  It sucks, but that is what they pay you for.

As for the captain, that is a good question.  Probably hiding in the cockpit to let the agents sort it out since this was supposedly just an overbooking, and not some kind of safety or violent situation.

11 minutes ago, KevinAu said:

I do understand your point. But again, as a professional, it is incumbent upon you to sort out the drunkards from the ornery from the mentally challenged, from the sane and from the the terrorist and deal with each with an appropriate level of violence or non-violence.  It sucks, but that is what they pay you for.

I 100% agree with you. I just don't think in this situation, the place for law enforcement to sort that out was in the aisle.

To all the folk who have commented in favour of the gentleman MD who was rousted, assaulted, ejected and character assassinated. I thankyou for restoring my faith in humanity, people who can stand up for what is right. I would gladly and confidently sit on an aircraft in your company, knowing that you would uphold my right not to be beaten and ejected for no good reason.

ahsmatt7 - I wonder if you have some kind of financial exposure in this UA debacle, do you have shares that are dropping through the floor and are perhaps trying to minimise your losses. Or are you here representing the authorities or UA in their indefensible actions. Perhaps character assassination of a passenger is your flavour. Considering the number of posts you have made I suspect you have some kind of vested interest. as you can read much of the thread supports the incident from the innocent passenger's point of view.

If I were sitting on an aircraft next to you, and they were asking the same voluntary question, I would be more than happy to accidently bump your hand high in the air so that your unintentional hand raising gesture indicated a willingness to accept the kind yet unwelcome request to remove yourself from the aircraft so that the culpable actions of the airline could be satisfied. I do hope you are compliant with the authorities as they drag you unwillingly and unceremoniously along the aircraft toward exit door. You will of course be a hero for such an act of generosity and clear headed thought processes in the face of such an indignity, Well done.

My fellow legitimate fare paying passengers will enjoy our flight home to our loved ones, and forget immediately the pushback begins, just how willingly you complied with such an unreasonable request, my fellow passengers will acknowledge your genuine desire to play good law abiding passenger with such a gesture. Even though you kick up and rail against the unwelcome prospect of the forceful removal by authorities who had been called ahead of time knowing that you may have in the past shown some unknown unstable tendencys possibly leading to violence endangering the more valued deadhead staff and gold pass customers. Even at such a low first compensation offer and much complaining that you did not raise your hand, saying it was a mistake, pleading please choose someone who is lower down the food chain I am a VIP don't you know, I have shares in your airline. (Flight attendant points to your seat giggles, then the authorities march forward with only one thought in their tiny minds, then begin to explain that your VIP status means nothing, the decision has been made, please come quietly do not resist or we will force you to comply or arrest you if necessary, injuries may occur but you will comply none the less).  

Enjoy your free drink in the overnight lounge as the airline management could not be bothered to extend the monetary offer beyond a whip around at the taxi stand. They assure you that they will try to get you on the following flight but unfortunately your bags have inadvertently been damaged in all the confusion and some of the contents have been destroyed. Unfortunatley the airline apologises for any inconvenience this may cause but requires you to fill out a lost property form and wait for 8 - 12 weeks for the maximum compensation of $100. On behalf of UA do enjoy your flight, "Have a Nice Day"

1 hour ago, Alan_A said:

Police reports are not always reliable.

The restraint you've shown while typing this sentence impresses me greatly Alan!

23 minutes ago, odourboy said:

The restraint you've shown while typing this sentence impresses me greatly Alan!

Thanks.

Trying for restraint.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results...