2 minutes ago, KevinAu said:

..how it is like to work there and pretty much any airline.  It is all about metrics. D-0, D-14, CCF, rasm, casm, etc, etc. Statistics that are utterly meaningless to the customers, but obsessed over by management as if they are the sole purpose of the airline's existence.

Not surprised to hear it.  There's a long history of (mostly failed) companies in lots of industries that layer systems on top of systems, and somewhere along the way they forget what business they're in.

8 minutes ago, Alan_A said:

There's a long history of (mostly failed) companies in lots of industries that layer systems on top of systems, and somewhere along the way they forget what business they're in.

Absolutely on target!

 

And now they're beginning to get to grips with it.  A day (and $800m in market cap) short... but it's a start.

Link is to the Washington Post.  The story begins...

Quote

 

After two days conflicting corporate statements, falling stocks and swelling outrage, United Airlines entered full-scale mea culpa mode Tuesday afternoon, as its chief executive announced an internal investigation into a Sunday-evening flight in which a man was dragged violently from his seat so a crew member could have it.

“I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight,” United chief executive Oscar Munoz wrote in a statement.

“I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.”

“We are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again,” Munoz wrote — promising a report on the beleaguered airline’s policies on calling police, transferring crew and “how we handle oversold situations.”

It was the latest in a flurry of attempts from the airline to defuse a public relations crisis.

 

 

The point where it went pear-shaped was when the airline stopped raising the amount of the offer (hotel + voucher/cash) and resorted to physical assault to free up the seat.

If they had continued to raise the offer above $800, does anyone here doubt that someone else would have eventually deboarded, voluntarily? That's the whole point of "volunteering" to give up a seat once your butt is down and belted in.

As I understand it, there are regs that require a minimum offer to be made (up to 400% of ticket price?), but no cap on what can be offered above that amount to get pax to volunteer for another flight. Instead, they decided to haul him off the plane, and the circus ensued.

The two most shocking things about this for me (aside from the fact that it happened at all) is first, that company staff apparently still don't know that every phone is now a camera, and events like this will hit social media before you can blink twice. They learned nothing from legging-gate.

The other shocking thing is the tone-deaf initial public response and internal memo to employees by United's CEO. The latest official response (carefully vetted by legal and PR departments) is what they should have done immediately.

And yeah, I don't think I'll be flying United any time soon. 

If anybody's interested in crisis communications - which is a pretty interesting subject - I usually recommend a visit to Peter Sandman's website.  Lots of good stuff there.  Don't be put off by the early-90s web design.  When it comes to communications, he knows his stuff.  Worth a look, re: United and anything like it.  

The problem was they stopped at $1000? They should have kept going.... Upping $200 every 10 minutes until someone bit. They had 4 crew members to be on that plane so as not to cancel another flight in the morning... They should not stop even at $10K. I am sure by10K someone would have given up their seats.

If United and other Airlines do that, its time congress changes the law up the $1300 limit to 10K

 

That was the solution.

This was not an issue of overbooking.. This was where they needed 4 seats for their own at the last minute and United was cheap and nasty people.

Freaking Idiots at United.

I am Executive Platinum in American, If something like that happened to me, I would have freaked out too.

 

 

Speaking of freaking out... justifiably... a friend sent me a link to this story.

Like I was saying - it's never just one isolated incident.  There's always a pattern.  It's never the exception.  It's always the rule.

Watch for more of these to come to the surface now.

 

 

 

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:15 AM, Chock said:

Nope, I am not unbelievably ignorant of airline operations, in fact I have done work for a numner of airlines over the years, so I'm well aware of their standard procedures, which are; they should not have boarded the passengers, they should have bumped them at the gate or check in.

someone who has the amount of experience you say you have wouldn't suggest driving the crew or chartering a citation as options to get crews where they need to be. The fact that you've worked for numerous airlines make me wonder why you haven't stayed with just one.

Edited April 12, 20179 yr by n4gix
Removed excessive quote.

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:28 AM, dave2013 said:

I find it amusing that some here are criticizing the passenger who got dragged off the plane like an animal. It may be true that the airlines have the right to kick you off a flight for many reasons, but that doesn't make it right.  I'd like to see if you'd feel the same way if you were kicked off a flight for no good reason.

I believe it was chicago police dragging him off the airplane.

Edited April 12, 20179 yr by n4gix
Removed excessive quote.

3 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

The fact that you've worked for numerous airlines make me wonder why you haven't stayed with just one.

Freelance contract work

28 minutes ago, Chock said:

Freelance contract work

Boom!

6 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

someone who has the amount of experience you say you have wouldn't suggest driving the crew or chartering a citation as options to get crews where they need to be. The fact that you've worked for numerous airlines make me wonder why you haven't stayed with just one.

I do not work for an airline, but spent 15 years working in the on-demand charter industry, (Part 135), and on at least 3 occasions our aircraft were hired to move airline flight crews from "A" to "B" in order to get them where they needed to be - so it can't be said that airlines "never do this".

In fact, some airlines even have a controlling interest in Part 135 charter companies. There is a large private aircraft management company called "Delta Private Jets", based in Cincinnati, which is a subsidiary of Delta airlines. Though DPJ aircraft are typically charted by private clients, I'm sure Delta can and does employ them for "in house" work if needed.

An even more common scenario is where an aircraft is grounded for mechanical issues, and an airline will charter an aircraft to move parts and/or maintenance personnel to the required location. This happens most often where an airliner goes AOG at a smaller airport without local maintenance support.

2 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

I do not work for an airline, but spent 15 years working in the on-demand charter industry, (Part 135), and on at least 3 occasions our aircraft were hired to move airline flight crews from "A" to "B" in order to get them where they needed to be - so it can't be said that airlines "never do this".

In fact, some airlines even have a controlling interest in Part 135 charter companies. There is a large private aircraft management company called "Delta Private Jets", based in Cincinnati, which is a subsidiary of Delta airlines. Though DPJ aircraft are typically charted by private clients, I'm sure Delta can and does employ them for "in house" work if needed.

An even more common scenario is where an aircraft is grounded for mechanical issues, and an airline will charter an aircraft to move parts and/or maintenance personnel to the required location. This happens most often where an airliner goes AOG at a smaller airport without local maintenance support.

3 times in 15 years doesn't really mean it's the norm now does it? You can't start making arguments based off of a sample size that small. I'm not saying that airlines haven't done that before. I'm not saying that they won't in the future. However, it's obviously not the norm and it will never be.

I a. aware of delta jets. I wouldn't exactly say they are huge though.

 

Also, every single one of you fail to mention that this man made his own way back on the the airplane after he got off!!!! Once again, you all show your blatant ignorance of airline operations. When someone walks off the airplane, they are not allowed back on. It's a huge security threat. Sadly, most flight crews don't abide by this rule.

Also, why on earth are we as a society glorifying people acting like children?

When a police officer asks you to get off an airplane, just get off the airplane. Instead, we instigate just like this gentlemen did thinking nothing is going to happen. Then when it does, everyone is outraged and offended.

United apparently flew 68 million passengers last year and forced off 3,765 of them. Thats 0.0055%. Yet everyone is acting like it's the first time someone has been asked to get off a flight.

The problem is that no one is accountable for their actions anymore. This man found his way back into an airplane which now becomes a huge security threat. But no, he's not wrong at all.

This man  blatantly chooses to not follow directions from crew members when they are safe and on the ground. If he can't follow directions when it's safe and sound, how does the crew and airline know that we won't cause the same problem in an emergency? If we can't trust you now, we won't trust you when other people's lives depend on it.

But no, no other passengers ever thought about that. They didn't even consider their own safety. They just wanted to be some self riteous person and act like they are doing something smart.

Lastly, if anyone is in any other environment and asked to leave and they don't after repeated attempts, the cops get involved. Being on an airplane is no different. Other establishments have the right to refuse service to anyone. So do airlines.

The biggest problem here is that This man just like everyone else thinks flying is a right. WRONG! it's a mere priviledge.

GGood grief, check all the facts before believing what a 73 second clip is showing you....on the internet.

Society's sheer lack of common sense and wisdom is blatant in the world now.

Another thing, because people thought they were helping out this gentlemen by video taping this incident, I now know he is a tell for handing out prescription drugs and he lost his medical license. what s stand up guy! he was also accused of trading drugs for sexual favors. A total of of 98 felony counts.  Sounds like a stand up guy.

People need to learn that sharing everyone else problems on the I resent doesn't do anything to help them and only causes more issues for that indivdual.

 

The guy obviously has issues and the fact that he got back on airplane full of passengers is most likely the biggest reason he was pulled off in that way. He's considered a security threat, not a passenger anymore.

 

I'm on my phone and I can't post links for some reason. But go do some research and you will find all my claims are correct.

11 hours ago, Alan_A said:

Speaking of freaking out... justifiably... a friend sent me a link to this story.

Like I was saying - it's never just one isolated incident.  There's always a pattern.  It's never the exception.  It's always the rule.

Watch for more of these to come to the surface now.

 

 

 

It's interesting you put this up.

let's paraphrase it,

Man is asked to leave airplane, He acts like a child by not following directions. Delays flight for everyone else because he's a selfish person. Airline repeatedly asks him to get off the airplane, he doesnt, he continues to be defiant. Cops are mentioned. He gets a news article written about him which of course sways the bias over to him.

Long story short, this man is missed because someone who's more important than he is and gives United more business, has rights to that seat.

Im sorry to that man because someone else deemed that he wasn't the most important on that airplane.

 

To make this clear for both events, the gate agents should have never let these men board if they knew that the flight was oversold. They are start to the problem.

However, society needs to gain a little more wisdom and learn to deal with being inconvenienced. Get off the airplane and deal with this stuff at the gate. By getting off the airplane, you now have tons more leverage to get the situation "made right." Don't stay on the airplane to just prove a point and inconvenience other passengers. That's not fair to them.

Get off this "it's all about me" mentality. It will do the world a lot more good then you can think.

1 minute ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Get off this "it's all about me" mentality. It will do the world a lot more good then you can think.

Glad you're there to defend corporations against people.

Those poor corporations need all the help they can get.