Fed Up

[HiFlyer 9,360]

3 minutes ago, JDWalley said:

I'd be curious to hear from Aerosoft about their experience.  They've been taking the Steam/DTG path to selling their Airbus product as an "official" FSX:SE add-on, even though it's widely acknowledged in the flight sim community that said product has been surpassed by FSLabs' offering.  How are their sales of the product via Steam doing versus the latter's "unofficial" product?

Its interesting you mentioned that. I was reading something at Aerosoft just recently that explained that due to some Steam requirements (Mentioned by Paraffin) some things available in products they sold themselves were omitted in products sold on Steam.

[kabekew 0]

6 minutes ago, JDWalley said:

I'm also thinking it may appeal more to developers like Carenado, that sell relatively low-priced products, than a company like PMDG.  If there are three or four C152s or Beechcraft 1900s out there, having the "official" one might be worth paying The Powers That Be their cut.

I didn't get the impression they were going to have "official" versions of aircraft, just that they want to run an app store. Like Apple's store that have many different chess games for example, once DTG approves your addon, they add it to the store regardless of how many others there are.

[HiFlyer 9,360]

10 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

It will be fascinating to see how they resolve this. I'm surprised that the sim doesn't just automatically block it, given their public statements.

Now that's the thing.....

Microsoft FLIGHT was locked down hard. 

It was encrypted heavily it seems, and if your addon was not official, it just wasn't going in there. End of story.

Stonelance was able eventually to change that, but that's a different saga.

The point is, Microsoft was the unquestioned gatekeeper, and if you wanted in, then you had to go through them.

Interesting that DTG has apparently left FSW so open.

 

[JDWalley 354]

5 minutes ago, kabekew said:

I didn't get the impression they were going to have "official" versions of aircraft, just that they want to run an app store. Like Apple's store that have many different chess games for example, once DTG approves your addon, they add it to the store regardless of how many others there are.

I meant it in the sense that accepted submissions would carry a "official FSW product" as opposed to there only being one of each allowed in the store...although I'm not necessarily writing off that possibility, either.

[hypercide 97]

Three things:

1) this business about what code FSW is based on. So what? I bet you can find Flanker code inside DCS, and Flanker was released in 1995. And how long ago was X-plane for released? And, um, P3D? Maybe it gets cut some slack because if you pay $200 for a computer game, you better have some pretty convincing, Lockheed-Martin type reasons to justify your choice. Perhaps, afterall, the age and source of a game's code is a big fat red herring.

2) in respect to add-on's: the default aircraft in FSW are of such high quality (sure there are bugs, but they'll be addressed), that anything that's offered as DLC through Steam is going to have to be pretty good to be worth purchasing. There are some companies whose current offerings on Steam are no better than third party stuff for the vanilla FSX 10 years ago, and these providers have stayed in the game only because anyone buying FSX off Steam for the first time wouldn't know any better.  At this point, I think there are very few providers whose work can sit on the same ramp as the default aircraft in FSW. Carenado and A2A have clearly shown their support for FSW; once the full sim is released, who else will there be? RealAir and Milviz? (and PMDG, once they finish sulking).

2) after 10 years on FSX, and 5 hours on FSW, I've removed FSX from my system. It's time to embrace the future of this hobby.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

19 minutes ago, hypercide said:

...after 10 years on FSX, and 5 hours on FSW, I've removed FSX from my system. It's time to embrace the future of this hobby.

Wow

[glenecho3 9]

11 hours ago, dheyer said:

I realize that. But it has crossed over to 64bit. I'm referring to the product development time.

I honestly believe that people on this and other flight simming boards think that developers can just put software in a magical 64 bit conversion machine and all will be well.

I'm not crazy about FSW as it stands right now either...but it was $25 bucks and I've probably already gotten my money's worth out of it just to try a few new planes and see some updated airports. I do agree with popular sentiment that if it remains a closed platform it will never succeed, however.

[Cjr60611 31]

12 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

The flight sim community is one of the toughest on developers and it continues to get worse.  After 30+ years in the community, I believe it's because many of the people have above average intelligence (thus they think or know their right) but lack knowledge and experience (both of which have nothing to do with intelligence) in areas of software development, business and marketing.  Add the anonymity of the Internet, and this mixture leads to highly opinionated and even arrogant postings and no matter how wrong, they won't listen to anyone and will simply stick to their guns.  Given the level it's risen to, I can tell you for absolute certain that many developers I know or have spoken with are sick of it and some are considering moving elsewhere - especially because there is more money to be made there.

 

 

+1

[glenecho3 9]

9 hours ago, TheFlightSimGuy said:

And that is exactly what we have been asking for, for the last 6 years. 

Exactly. We also have people in this forum going "who cares about 64 bit? All that does is improve VAS". Do I need to remind everyone exactly what a huge problem VAS is in FSX? Really? Now it's just this "little issue"? Stop.

What frustrates me so much about the "community" is it's general crankiness and how resistant to any form of change so many are. I think a huge portion of the demographic come across like angry old men who yell at the sky, to overuse a cliche.

Edited May 22, 2017 by glenecho3

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

57 minutes ago, hypercide said:

Three things:

1) this business about what code FSW is based on. So what? I bet you can find Flanker code inside DCS, and Flanker was released in 1995. And how long ago was X-plane for released? And, um, P3D? Maybe it gets cut some slack because if you pay $200 for a computer game, you better have some pretty convincing, Lockheed-Martin type reasons to justify your choice. Perhaps, afterall, the age and source of a game's code is a big fat red herring.

2) in respect to add-on's: the default aircraft in FSW are of such high quality (sure there are bugs, but they'll be addressed), that anything that's offered as DLC through Steam is going to have to be pretty good to be worth purchasing. There are some companies whose current offerings on Steam are no better than third party stuff for the vanilla FSX 10 years ago, and these providers have stayed in the game only because anyone buying FSX off Steam for the first time wouldn't know any better.  At this point, I think there are very few providers whose work can sit on the same ramp as the default aircraft in FSW. Carenado and A2A have clearly shown their support for FSW; once the full sim is released, who else will there be? RealAir and Milviz? (and PMDG, once they finish sulking).

2) after 10 years on FSX, and 5 hours on FSW, I've removed FSX from my system. It's time to embrace the future of this hobby.

*slow claps*

[JDWalley 354]

55 minutes ago, glenecho3 said:

Exactly. We also have people in this forum going "who cares about 64 bit? All that does is improve VAS". Do I need to remind everyone exactly what a huge problem VAS is in FSX? Really? Now it's just this "little issue"? Stop.

I find that utterly puzzling, since, froom reading other forums (fora?) here, I get the feeling that, for lots of people, the only reason to not be completely satisfied with the current iterations of P3D or even FSX:SE is the VAS OOMs.

 

[dheyer 16]

5 hours ago, JDWalley said:

Did you get to test out the betas (or whatever state you consider FSW to be, alpha maybe) of all of those? Apples to apples, please. 

What are you comparing this with? If it's FSX then i guess it will be another lifetime of 'tweaks' to make it work. It's already happening. Looks like the tides going back out.

[dheyer 16]

2 hours ago, hypercide said:

Three things:

1) this business about what code FSW is based on. So what? I bet you can find Flanker code inside DCS, and Flanker was released in 1995. And how long ago was X-plane for released? And, um, P3D? Maybe it gets cut some slack because if you pay $200 for a computer game, you better have some pretty convincing, Lockheed-Martin type reasons to justify your choice. Perhaps, afterall, the age and source of a game's code is a big fat red herring.

2) in respect to add-on's: the default aircraft in FSW are of such high quality (sure there are bugs, but they'll be addressed), that anything that's offered as DLC through Steam is going to have to be pretty good to be worth purchasing. There are some companies whose current offerings on Steam are no better than third party stuff for the vanilla FSX 10 years ago, and these providers have stayed in the game only because anyone buying FSX off Steam for the first time wouldn't know any better.  At this point, I think there are very few providers whose work can sit on the same ramp as the default aircraft in FSW. Carenado and A2A have clearly shown their support for FSW; once the full sim is released, who else will there be? RealAir and Milviz? (and PMDG, once they finish sulking).

2) after 10 years on FSX, and 5 hours on FSW, I've removed FSX from my system. It's time to embrace the future of this hobby.

 I don't think RealAir will be. Carenado? Since when did they become a white knight? I surprised they would let the textures get hammered like that. 

[Hypofx 10]

I think the source of the problems - expectations!! This sim is for other type of simmers than FSX SE or P3d thats it:) long story short: a nice vfr-ish ga sim. P3d already a scenery simulator :) I dont think this new going to be your next platform for your 737/777/AIRBUS Ailiner sim. thats it. 

[pmb 5,137]

7 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I am sure the Migration tool people are already working on this. 

If you mean the Estonian people, those seem to have thrown the towel a year ago. No new versions since then, and I doubt their latest version is fully compatible with the latest Prepar3d3 versions, but I have retired it anyway long ago. This doesn't exclude some Indian or Chinese migration people tool to emerge soon, of course.

And, btw, I am just beta testing two payware tools working based on DT's Simconnect where the developers don't care (and supposedly don't have to) for any offical "DT approved" stamp. In the end of the day, most developers might just make their way as with FSX/P3D without being managed by Dovetail's 3rd party manager guys.

Kind regards, Michael