kfd

Fed Up

Recommended Posts

Anybody else fed up with the constant sniping and criticism of DTG's FSW?  I am totally overwhelmed by the negative postings about this new sim.  It is a pre- release into the flight sim community asking for comment in order to make it better - but instead of this - we see some pretty sharp sniping and whinging from people expecting a golden standard on immediate release.  Personally, I dont' like the initial release, but DTG had the courage to put it out there in its current form asking for constructive comment.  I hope they are successful, but it would be helpful for them to be encouraged rather than be slagged off.

 

  • Upvote 15

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

3 minutes ago, kfd said:

Anybody else fed up with the constant sniping and criticism of DTG's FSW?  I am totally overwhelmed by the negative postings about this new sim.  It is a pre- release into the flight sim community asking for comment in order to make it better - but instead of this - we see some pretty sharp sniping and whinging from people expecting a golden standard on immediate release.  Personally, I dont' like the initial release, but DTG had the courage to put it out there in its current form asking for constructive comment.  I hope they are successful, but it would be helpful for them to be encouraged rather than be slagged off.

 

An Author friend of mine told me many years ago, " When you ask a question, you should always be prepared for an answer that you might not want to hear".  

  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post

Was it courage or do they want development 'funding'?

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, dheyer said:

Was it courage or do they want development 'funding'?

I think that after they pulled the plug on Flight School, that left a bad taste in in everyone's mouth, so by releasing an early release of FSW, it would appease the people that bought FS, and it also showed that they also had not given up on FSW. Probably the money that this brought in was minimal at best. 

Share this post


Link to post

The flight sim community is one of the toughest on developers and it continues to get worse.  After 30+ years in the community, I believe it's because many of the people have above average intelligence (thus they think or know their right) but lack knowledge and experience (both of which have nothing to do with intelligence) in areas of software development, business and marketing.  Add the anonymity of the Internet, and this mixture leads to highly opinionated and even arrogant postings and no matter how wrong, they won't listen to anyone and will simply stick to their guns.  Given the level it's risen to, I can tell you for absolute certain that many developers I know or have spoken with are sick of it and some are considering moving elsewhere - especially because there is more money to be made there.

I have some reservations about DTG goals and their getting into flight simulation without knowing anything about it, or us. Compounding the problem is their terrible interface to our community, which only hurts them and us. But I also remember the doldrums we found ourselves in for many years when there was no base sim development and none planned, and the vast majority of those in the community were wondering if it was the end of our hobby and pleading for someone to move us to a 64 bit platform. DTG at least made an investment into this, and I for one will hold my tongue until I see what direction (game, sim, quality, update to new software capabilities, etc.) before I form an opinion - and it's way, WAY, WAAAAAYYYYYYY to early to do that.  It will likely be a year or longer before any of us can form an intelligent opinion on their work.

Best wishes to everyone.

 

Edited by DaveCT2003
  • Upvote 16

Share this post


Link to post

I know, but development is a cost. I did pick this up just to see for myself. Thankfully, I didn't have high expectations. Time will tell. For now it rest on a hard drive.

Share this post


Link to post
47 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

An Author friend of mine told me many years ago, " When you ask a question, you should always be prepared for an answer that you might not want to hear".  

Brill touche!

Share this post


Link to post

It's very sad that some people are rooting against it just so some day they can say "I told you so"

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

The flight sim community is one of the toughest on developers and it continues to get worse.  After 30+ years in the community, I believe it's because many of the people have above average intelligence (thus they think or know their right) but lack knowledge and experience (both of which have nothing to do with intelligence) in areas of software development, business and marketing.  Add the anonymity of the Internet, and this mixture leads to highly opinionated and even arrogant postings and no matter how wrong, they won't listen to anyone and will simply stick to their guns.  Given the level it's risen to, I can tell you for absolute certain that many developers are sick of it and some are considering moving elsewhere - especially because there is more money to be made there.

I have some reservations about DTG goals and their getting into flight simulation without knowing anything about it, or us. Compounding the problem is there terrible interface to our community, which only hurts them and us. But I also remember the doldrums we found ourselves in for many years when there was no base sim development and none planned, and the vast majority of those in the community where wondering if it was the end of our hobby and pleading for someone to move us to a 64 bit platform. DTG at least made an investment into this, and I for one will hold my tongue until I see what direction (game, sim, quality, update to new software capabilities, etc.) before I form an opinion - and it's way, WAY, WAAAAAYYYYYYY to early to do that.  It will likely be a year or longer before any of us can form an intelligent opinion on their work.

Best wishes to everyone.

 

I agree with you. FSX has 10 years behind it plus all the other earlier platforms. You can't compare the two. But I did purchase the product and for anyone who did they should be able to comment  pro or con. I not bashing DTG but my opinion is it should not been released.

Share this post


Link to post

A good observation, Dave CT2003

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, dheyer said:

FSX has 10 years behind it plus all the other earlier platforms.

But so does FSW, as it's based on the FSX code!

Share this post


Link to post

I realize that. But it has crossed over to 64bit. I'm referring to the product development time.

Share this post


Link to post

I think everyone has the right to love or loathe it or to stay politely indifferent. What I will never understand is why DTG took an old platform, put money into it only to then publish it with most of the old platform's elements missing. Whether you call this early access, alpha, beta, it just doesn't make sense to me. And it surely provokes that answer to the question the developer didn't want to hear.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

The constructive criticism & solemn requests are justified. There's a history established on these forums.

I'd bet that if we did a poll of all the unhappy DTG simmers, that most would say that they want FSW to succeed.

Share this post


Link to post

I have FSX boxed , P3D2.5, XP10,11 and now FSW. When I first opened FSW I thought 'you're kidding'. Some betas are better than others.  

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, DJJose said:

The constructive criticism & solemn requests are justified. There's a history established on these forums.

I'd bet that if we did a poll of all the unhappy DTG simmers, that most would say that they want FSW to succeed.

Agree to that. I want them to succeed also. 

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, dheyer said:

I have FSX boxed , P3D2.5, XP10,11 and now FSW. When I first opened FSW I thought 'you're kidding'. Some betas are better than others.  

Except that it is more like an alpha. And therein lies one of the problems. A game has been released that is inferior to the game that it is trying to emulate/succeed. Also all this 64bit hype! All 64bit means is better use of a larger memory. On most of the videos I have seen the brakes don't work. Is that an indication that a brakes DLC is in the pipline?

Edited by vololiberista

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, vololiberista said:

Except that it is more like an alpha. And therein lies one of the problems. A game has been released that is inferior to the game that it is trying to emulate/succeed. On most of the videos I have seen the brakes don't work. Is that an indication that a brakes DLC is in the pipline?

Lol! Agreed! DTG is known (or infamous) for releasing DLC for just about every kind of function within a game they develop. Besides, they're selling FSW relatively cheap...

I makes you wonder what targer audience FSW is aimed for?! Is it (really) for hard-core deskchair-pilots (who's used to play FSX/P3D)? If that's the case, I don't really understand the decision of removing the Scenery Library (I know, it still exists, but it's not accessible within the simulator). Real world weather option? 

Actually, IMO they could have released a vanilla version of FSX:SE in 64-bits and I would be thrilled... :smile:

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Anders Gron said:

Actually, IMO they could have released a vanilla version of FSX:SE in 64-bits and I would be thrilled... :smile:

That would have been better.

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed.

DTG is in a lose-lose-lose position with respect to this community. The community doesn't seem to understand where software entertainment has gone in the last 10 years. (No, spending hours learning to fly a B-17 doesn't mean it's not entertainment, and FSX is no less a game than FSW).

DTG is just doing what many other developers are trying to do. They want to benefit from what is almost a universal platform at this point: Steam. The open beta is really cheap. If they didn't have a beta people would complain that they didn't engage with the community. Personally, I often wait months after an official release by big companies because it takes time for bugs to be worked out. Steam and other developers take a cut from DLC and yet we're in a golden age of PC gaming, largely because of increased accessibility and availability. Everyone is benefiting. 

It's fine if people are saying, "this is not replacing my favorite sim" but I really don't understand why people expect DTG to act differently than other game developers or to meet the coding standards of Microsoft (which still has people complain about it all the time). They may not succeed, but I hope they do.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Anders Gron said:

Lol! Agreed! DTG is known (or infamous) for releasing DLC for just about every kind of function within a game they develop. Besides, they're selling FSW relatively cheap...

I makes you wonder what targer audience FSW is aimed for?! Is it (really) for hard-core deskchair-pilots (who's used to play FSX/P3D)? If that's the case, I don't really understand the decision of removing the Scenery Library (I know, it still exists, but it's not accessible within the simulator). Real world weather option? 

Actually, IMO they could have released a vanilla version of FSX:SE in 64-bits and I would be thrilled... :smile:

What is the problem with DLC? Most people are already spending huge amounts of money for addons. Steam and DTG taking cuts hasn't stopped Trainsim DLC.

I do think they want this to be FSX 10.5 but people would crap on them if they tried to make money on updating it ("why am I paying for an update and bug fixes!") and if the billions of addons didn't immediately work ("They shouldn't have released it if all expensive addons don't work with DX11 and 64 bits). They're starting small. Again, it's lose-lose for DTG.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

believe it's because many of the people have above average intelligence

 

Oh, this is so not true...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Raven9000 said:

 

Oh, this is so not true...

Indeed! There's several threads, which are evidence to the contrary :biggrin:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think that after they pulled the plug on Flight School, that left a bad taste in in everyone's mouth, so by releasing an early release of FSW, it would appease the people that bought FS, and it also showed that they also had not given up on FSW. Probably the money that this brought in was minimal at best. 

Pulled the plug on Flight School?! They gave Flight Sim World, which at release is far better than flight school with more planes, for free! They upgraded Flight School owners if anything!

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now