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FSW - Quality Of Life Update Planned This Week

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Just now, arsenal82 said:

are these free or at a cost ?

You mean... a weather DLC for FSW? (Wouldn't surprise me... No offense!)


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Just now, arsenal82 said:

are these free or at a cost ?

Early Access updates are free of charge if you own the sim. It's one of the perks of the program - invest early for a lower price and get subsequent updates free even if the sim goes up in price.

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Aimee Sanjari

Brand Manager, Dovetail Games

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3 minutes ago, Anders Gron said:

You mean... a weather DLC for FSW? (Wouldn't surprise me... No offense!)

Updating the weather system in-sim wouldn't be done via DLC - it's a core feature for sure!

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Aimee Sanjari

Brand Manager, Dovetail Games

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9 minutes ago, DTG_Aimee said:

Early Access updates are free of charge if you own the sim. It's one of the perks of the program - invest early for a lower price and get subsequent updates free even if the sim goes up in price.

Yes Aimee;

thanks for your reply

i already have Fsw - although not installed;  there are some but.....  Dtg have not let go a roadmap; nobody know when these updates are going to be added to the sim; and yet nobody know yet if the final retailer version will carry a charge even for those in early access.

If so and these weather updates are going to be after retailer release; and there will be a charge; i believe it is better to clarify straight away to your customers. (if it is the case off course).

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1 minute ago, arsenal82 said:

i already have Fsw - although not installed;  there are some but.....  Dtg have not let go a roadmap; nobody know when these updates are going to be added to the sim; and yet nobody know yet if the final retailer version will carry a charge.

If you join Early Access, you won't be charged for the final version. 

 We do give a brief summary here about things we want to achieve over the next few months. Given that our development team are working on these features in parallel to updating the sim in response to community feedback, it's difficult to nail down specific dates. We will definitely be getting more specific as feature updates come close to being ready! 


Aimee Sanjari

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39 minutes ago, DTG_Aimee said:

Updating the weather system in-sim wouldn't be done via DLC - it's a core feature for sure!

Thanks for sharing this, Aimee.  It should go a long way to dispelling the uncertainty being spread by some here, and elsewhere.  A common theme of DTG's detractors is that you will monetize anything and everything.  

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8 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

Thanks for sharing this, Aimee.  It should go a long way to dispelling the uncertainty being spread by some here, and elsewhere.  A common theme of DTG's detractors is that you will monetize anything and everything.  

Agreed. Although having said that, I do sometimes wonder when the notion of making money out of flight sim add-ons, or anything else for that matter, became the hallmark of evil.

Nobody calls PMDG evil for having worked their asses off simulating an airliner well and then charging for it, most of us are grateful for the effort and happy to reward the work with a fair payment. I don't see why anyone should view that state of affairs any differently for DTG; when I spend a few days training someone on one of my courses, they are paying for my years of knowledge, skill, and my ability to impart that knowledge to them and have them retain it. The fact that I expect to be paid for it doesn't make me Ernst Blofeld.

Let's not forget that many (in fact probably most of us here) have been flight simmers for a long time and cheerfully rolled up to our local PC store every two years or so to buy the latest version of MSFS, usually on the first day of release if you are anything like me. Since that generally amounted to sixty quid or so for a boxed version upon release (if memory serves for the expanded/pro versions which I would typically buy), I don't see the difference between DTG and MS being the 'guardians' of ongoing development of the base platform and making money off that status.

Yes to sell through Steam or otherwise, third party developers will have to throw them a cut, but why not? Steam is a massive marketplace created for their products (11.9 Million users online most of the time and a total user base of 125 million). And DTG have facilitated that market for FS add-on developers. Now I haven't got the stats for how many potential customers have been to say, A2A or FSL's websites, or having had regular adverts directed to potential buys, but I'd take a bet on it not being anywhere near over ten million people. And as we know, any company would rather sell a million units at ten quid a pop rather than 50 units at a price they'd care to name for themselves, and even if they do want to do that, apparently they will be able to do so as well as selling via Steam. Christ, if I could promo my business on Steam and sell my courses for half the price I do, my comment would be: 'who do I have to kill and where do I sign?'

As the saying goes: 'If God wanted us to fly, he'd have given us more money.' To which we might add: 'And if he'd wanted us to flight sim, he'd have given us even more money.' lol. Try thinking about how much you have spent on flight simming over the years if you are an avid simmer, I can pretty much guarantee that for most people, it's probably more than the cost of getting a pilot's license in the real world. I know for a fact that is true in my case, my pilot's license was buttons in comparison to what I've spent on flight sims lol.

What Steam and DTG are doing, is breathing life into a niche market and expanding it, and for that they deserve to be paid, just as you and I deserve to be paid when we drag our asses out of bed on a cold morning and tip up for work. :biggrin:

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Alan Bradbury

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Just a quick FYI:

In the apparent new tradition of demanding the earth from DTG, I intend to take DTG completely at their word with regard to the statement that there will be a Quality of Life update for me this week. Notwithstanding my recent fun in hospital, where frankly, just not feeling sick from constantly taking antibiotics would be a considerable improvement in my present quality of life, I have set a clock, on a one week timer, and should it transpire that at the end of that week, I do not look out of my window and find myself on, ooh, let's say my own private Caribbean island, with a 1935 Mercedes 540K drophead parked on my drive and just visible beyond that, my deHavilland Twin Otter float plane bobbing away on the gentle waves lapping up to my personal jetty, as I look across Rachel Weisz still asleep next to me. I will be coming for you guys. :laugh:

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Alan Bradbury

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Chock, your expectations are too high. I will be satisfied if the Quality of Life Update makes me more attractive and blesses me with musical talent. I already ordered a piano in anticipation.

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Barry Friedman

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Well said Chock.

Im still convinced that one reason there are no Cessnas in the base product is because A2A will release highly detailed versions as DLC and I fully intend to buy one.  looking forward to it. nothing wrong with DLC.

and to DTG - the announcement of this update was very important I think.  Im looking forward to it and the future ones.

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|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

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Wow you post is quite long !

Agreed. Although having said that, I do sometimes wonder when the notion of making money out of flight sim add-ons, or anything else for that matter, became the hallmark of evil.

Nobody calls PMDG evil for having worked their asses off simulating an airliner well and then charging for it, most of us are grateful for the effort and happy to reward the work with a fair payment. I don't see why anyone should view that state of affairs any differently for DTG; 

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you can not compare Pmdg and Dtg.

Pmdg is not the guardian of the code; and stop nobody to develop either pay or free; they basically compete fairly with others.

Off course Dtg bought and pay for the esp code and is they right to use as they pleased - but if they block anybody doing / selling  addons / using quality control as a vehicle and heavy restrictions on Eula for commercials devs;  than competition will die and it will become monopoly.

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1 hour ago, arsenal82 said:

you can not compare Pmdg and Dtg.

Pmdg is not the guardian of the code; and stop nobody to develop either pay or free; they basically compete fairly with others.

Off course Dtg bought and pay for the esp code and is they right to use as they pleased - but if they block anybody doing / selling  addons / using quality control as a vehicle and heavy restrictions on Eula for commercials devs;  than competition will die and it will become monopoly.

They are not blocking, they have a different business model. You have to understand that DTG needs to make money to keep improving the base sim. 

We keep asking for trueSKY, new autogen, shadows everywhere etc, but we can´t ask DTG to do it for free. Their business model count on the DLCs to make profit (as I can tell from what I´ve seen so far).

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2 hours ago, arsenal82 said:

you can not compare Pmdg and Dtg.

Pmdg is not the guardian of the code; and stop nobody to develop either pay or free; they basically compete fairly with others.

Off course Dtg bought and pay for the esp code and is they right to use as they pleased - but if they block anybody doing / selling  addons / using quality control as a vehicle and heavy restrictions on Eula for commercials devs;  than competition will die and it will become monopoly.

 

I've got a lot of PMDG products and they are undeniably very good, indeed amongst the best, but I think we sometimes forget that even if you like what PMDG do (and I certainly do, because I've bought enough of their stuff over the years lol) they are not the be all and end all of decent developers for flight sims and one does not have to bow down and regard what they do as the word of the messiah, given that they've on occasion said they don't like the notion of selling through Steam or whatever. This despite the fact that DTG have pointed out they would not prevent developers from selling via their own outlets too. Of course you can't blame any developer disliking the notion of a seller taking a big chunk of change out of the RRP for being a broker and PMDG are entitled to their opinions, particularly when they are a business, but on the other side of that coin, there is no denying that a broker which can show your product to 125 million users (usually about 12 million or so online at any one time) is not the worst enemy you could have if one considers that volume sales could well mean a bigger turnover despite a brokering cut.

FSL, iFly, Majestic, FlySimWare, Milviz, Vertical Reality, Flight Factor, IXEG FlyJSim and many others have created a number of simulator addons which compare favourably with anything PMDG has produced in terms of functionality, or features, or value, or in many cases, all three and there are a ton of smaller developer of GA aircraft which have similarly impressed, for example Lionheart, so we would do well to remember that PMDG nor any other third party developer is not the arbiter of how things should go.

ORBX, Carenado, Iris Simulations, Turbulent Designs (to name a few) are all already demonstrably on board with DTG and so they've clearly been able to come to a financially agreeable position which suits them. To quote another developer which is also on board - Just Flight - on the matter: 'We've been working with DTG for some time now, adapting some of the products we've developed for FSX for distribution via Steam. As a result we have a very good relationship with them and this is set to continue with FSW.'. As we know, in recent months Just Flight have upped their game considerably with the likes of their PA-28, Trinidad and Tobago packages, which are amongst the best GA aircraft we've ever seen for any sim platform, so this is not a quote to be sniffed at.

Nobody was stopping anyone from doing what DTG have done in acquiring the rights to develop FS into FSX-SE and now FSW, but it is DTG which has done so, so the ball is in their court with regard to how that pans out business-wise, but as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing, because prior to that, all anyone else ever did was talk about getting a 64 bit GPU optimsed version of FS out as a possibility, thus I appreciate the fact that they actually got off their arses and did so as opposed to simply talking about it.

What tempers such potential for a monopoly when a software developer has done that, is the fact that FSW is not the only game in town. Aerofly, X-Plane and P3D are all platforms which might challenge that. If there is a market for add-ons for FSW, it has to be a viable one, so everyone taking a big slice out of a developer's potential reason for going to the trouble of actually being a developer is something both Steam and DTG may themselves have to look at. After all, 30 percent of bugger all is bugger all, and so if nobody wants to develop with that kind of imposed tax on their profit margins, then Steam and DTG will end up with 100 percent of bugger all. Thus it is something which can cut both ways, and that's the time to start talking turkey, which quite evidently a number of developers have already done. As good old Bob Dylan said, you don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Especially when it is blowing a potential 125 million customers your way. Sell your £1.50 FSW add on to that many customers and even if Steam and DTG took half your RRP, you'd still be able to fly around in your very own restored Lockheed Constellation for real with that kind of cash lol.

Developers who don't wish to accept which way the wind is blowing may be cutting their nose off to spite their face, because although they may have to accept that some of their profit has to go to Steam and DTG, we are still talking about a market which is several orders of magnitude larger than anything they might ever be able to foster on their own. Yes, it is nice to have total control over what you create and sell, but it is infinitely nicer to leave some of that up to a broker and sell considerably more units than you ever could by doing it all yourself.

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Alan Bradbury

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They are not blocking PMDG or any add-on developer, PMDG at the moment only want to sell on there site, they were not interested in P3Dv1 when it first came out.

Ray Fry.

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Raymond Fry.

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5 hours ago, sightseer said:

Im still convinced that one reason there are no Cessnas in the base product is because A2A will release highly detailed versions as DLC and I fully intend to buy one.  looking forward to it. nothing wrong with DLC.

I wouldn't mind betting that is true, but it's no bad thing as you say.

Sure, I can understand people's reservations at the idea of DLC in a game or sim that is online, principally because of the number of games which have really abused that kind of thing over the past few years, but so long as the basic sim is there, nobody is forced to buy some aeroplane, scenery or utility they don't want in FSX-SE, and it won't be any different in FSW. In any case, the day I see flight simmers complaining about shiny new toys to spend their money on will be the day I will probably also see Satan on his way to work in a snowplough, so it's hardly an issue anyway. :biggrin:

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Alan Bradbury

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