hawx2k

777 ground friction changes in P3D v4?

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Good morning,

I just flew the 777 for the first time in P3D v4 and noticed a significantly increased ground friction (in FlyTampa Dubai). Without (constant) significant thrust (N1 >28%) the plane would stop taxiing after a short while (within 10-15 seconds). I'm not sure if I have done something wrong or if this is an intentional change (I'm not flying a T7 in real life, so couldn't tell :D).

Thanks for any insight.

Jan

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Fsuipc has a section that handles friction. I forget how it works but Google should help 

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Don't forget that this is an entirely new simulator, and it does not take your old calibrations into effect. You will need to re-set your calibrations, null zones, and so on in the new sim to ensure that you are not dragging your brakes.

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Thanks all.

1) I don't use the paid FSUIPC version (yet) - hence there is no friction control I could have accidentally enabled

2) based on Kyle's input I re-calibrated the rudder pedals (Saitek Pro) and even increased the null zones to over 50 which for sure would loosen the brakes -> to no avail. Also, in the 747, the same setup - no change in calibration - works like a charme. The aircraft keeps rolling even in idle thrust. With the 777 I need north of 28% N1 to keep it rolling. I don't think that's normal. What else can it be?

3) Same behavior in P3D v3 (where I'm actually using FSUIPC for the axis assignment and calibration). 

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Same situation even though I install the latest update only in v3: I need 2% more thrust to keep the 777 moving.

I also noticed that some videos in Youtube about the 777 in v4 also encounter this problem, that the aircraft slows down quickly when N1 is below 24%.

 

Yunchong

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Am I right to assume that ground friction is currently not working in FSUIPC5?

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It's not caused by any old axis settings dragging brakes. 

Ground friction changed in v4 but something's off with triple 7 as it simply won't move and feels horribly sluggish. I remember that the engines in v3 were powerful enough that even when almost  idle it already moved (which I found quite realistic). Now it's just glued to ground and slows down quickly. Plus you can't reverse with reverse thrust (so something's definitely off with physics). 

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19 hours ago, Mephic said:

It's not caused by any old axis settings dragging brakes. 

Ground friction changed in v4 but something's off with triple 7 as it simply won't move and feels horribly sluggish. I remember that the engines in v3 were powerful enough that even when almost  idle it already moved (which I found quite realistic). Now it's just glued to ground and slows down quickly. Plus you can't reverse with reverse thrust (so something's definitely off with physics). 

Just ran a test.

Empty plane, Short fuel, 30.0% thrust (N1), clear weather, JYO 35, 16JUN17 at 10:00. Pop the parking brake and you hit 58 knots by the runway end.

Fun factoid from that test: v3, end of runway at 58 knots; v4, end of runway at 58 knots.

...but no, you're right. The 777's compatibility-only update (i.e. no behavioral code changes) is causing some sort of fundamental change in friction, and it is not being caused by improper hardware setup.

 

Of all of the people reading this, which would you prefer:

Potentially solve your problems by chasing down actual issues with your hardware setup, or chase ghosts and blame code?

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You  said at Fly Tampa Dubai.

Does this apply elsewhere?

if no could it be one of those problems of a part of Fly Tampa being compiled in an earlier version as RR has indicated this may cause problems?

 

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15 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Just ran a test.

Empty plane, Short fuel, 30.0% thrust (N1), clear weather, JYO 35, 16JUN17 at 10:00. Pop the parking brake and you hit 58 knots by the runway end.

Fun factoid from that test: v3, end of runway at 58 knots; v4, end of runway at 58 knots.

...but no, you're right. The 777's compatibility-only update (i.e. no behavioral code changes) is causing some sort of fundamental change in friction, and it is not being caused by improper hardware setup.

 

Of all of the people reading this, which would you prefer:

Potentially solve your problems by chasing down actual issues with your hardware setup, or chase ghosts and blame code?

Issue is not there with other aircrafts. 

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16 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Just ran a test.

Empty plane, Short fuel, 30.0% thrust (N1), clear weather, JYO 35, 16JUN17 at 10:00. Pop the parking brake and you hit 58 knots by the runway end.

Fun factoid from that test: v3, end of runway at 58 knots; v4, end of runway at 58 knots.

...but no, you're right. The 777's compatibility-only update (i.e. no behavioral code changes) is causing some sort of fundamental change in friction, and it is not being caused by improper hardware setup.

 

Of all of the people reading this, which would you prefer:

Potentially solve your problems by chasing down actual issues with your hardware setup, or chase ghosts and blame code?

Kyle,

have you even read what I posted a few posts above the one you were replying to:

1) I don't use the paid FSUIPC version (yet) - hence there is no friction control I could have accidentally enabled

2) based on Kyle's input I re-calibrated the rudder pedals (Saitek Pro) and even increased the null zones to over 50 which for sure would loosen the brakes -> to no avail. Also, in the 747, the same setup - no change in calibration - works like a charme. The aircraft keeps rolling even in idle thrust. With the 777 I need north of 28% N1 to keep it rolling. I don't think that's normal. What else can it be?

3) Same behavior in P3D v3 (where I'm actually using FSUIPC for the axis assignment and calibration). 

I think I had done the part you refer to as "chasing down actual issues with your hardware setup" and no where I can see I was chasing ghosts or blamed code?

What I'm missing in your test altogether BTW is what we had claimed to be the issue to begin with: the plane will stop when reducing to idle thrust almost immediately (within 10-15 seconds). I already said that you can keep the plane rolling with N1 of 28%. So I even believe your "test". The only problem is, it doesn't address our issue at all. 

Edit: In an effort to be diligent I tried replicating your test with a twist: disconnected and disabled all external hardware control input and ran your test twice (with external controls enabled and disabled). Result: in both cases I reached 38 kts at the end of the runway (10,000ft - KCLT 36C) with N1 30% thrust. Going to idle thrust: in both cases the plane stopped within 15 seconds (from 30kts). 

Would appreciate a serious answer/attempt to help and considering input by customers rather diligently and not dismissing it before even reading it. 

Jan

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15 hours ago, harrry said:

You  said at Fly Tampa Dubai.

Does this apply elsewhere?

if no could it be one of those problems of a part of Fly Tampa being compiled in an earlier version as RR has indicated this may cause problems?

 

It's happening on other airports as well: Tested so far: OMDB, LOWW, KCLT, KDEN. The latter two are supposedly fully v4 compatible. OMDB and LOWW at least have v4 compatible patches. But the spread across four airports and three developers at least suggest some coherence although it probably is still no scientifically significant sample size :).

P.S. forgive my slight irony, but Kyle's response just tripped me off on the wrong foot.

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Hi,

To compare the incomparable (:laugh:), in fsx I couldn't taxi the T7 at idle thrust except when fully empty with minimum fuel.

25-30% was something I was used to use for normal ops to taxi the T7 before I started to use the dynamic friction LUA of Fsuipc4.

If I recall well the friction model has been improved on the QOTS II (and that it would be updated on the T7 (?) when upgrading it with the progresses made with the QOTS II)

Actually there was already a difference in ground friction in FSX between the T7 and the QOTS II. I used the LUA dynamic friction for the T7 and not for the QOTSII.

It seems to be exactly the same in P3D v4. Not better not worst. The "grip" of the T7 feels the same.

But maybe I'm a lucky one because I have also none of the brake issues. I did a profile in fsuipc 5 from scratch for both aircrafts and recalibrated all my hardware in the P3D v4 controls.

I'm still missing the Lua dynamic friction for the T7 in P3D v4 as I used it in FSX but without it it feels the same in both sims FSX and P3D.

 

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I did a full recalibration and wiped out all of key binds to ensure there is no conflicts and issue is still there. Aircraft stops very quickly instead of rolling or slowly slowing down like in v3. 

 

LM stated that they modified friction parameters in v4 if I recall. Maybe adjustments are needed?  I also want to have the issue solved but blaming our hardware where it's clearly not the issue is simply not fair approach and not what I expect as customer which I am spending couple of hundred bucks for PMDG addons. 

I always support PMDG so I don't think it's too much to expect same in return. 

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