J van E

Anyone went from VR back to 2D...?

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I love my Rift and how it works in Aerofly FS 2. For a while I've been saying there is no going back to 2D for me. However... lately I notice I sometimes feel like not using the Rift. Main reasons: the low resolution and the way things are blown up to real life proportions.

This week I was confronted with this again after buying Orbx LOWI for Aerofly. I noticed that even though things looked great they also looked pixelated. I am beginning to get annoyed by this more and more. I even fired up Aerofly and LOWI on my 2D monitor and I was amazed by how good things looked. Sharp! In VR everything in the distance shimmers and nothing is really sharp. It s a bit as if you have some sort of weird glasses on. On a screen you aren't immersed as with VR but things sometimes look like er... real photographs. In VR things look more or less like real VR. Not reality.

I also noticed that those little houses look good on a 2D screen while in my Rift I sometimes get the idea that something has been blown up out of proportion: some houses are meant to be seen very small on a 2D screen and seeing them in real life size in VR doesn't make things look better.

I noticed to my amazement that although the immersion is great in VR I don't really have the idea I am actually there in the real world. I more or less have the idea I am there in a simulated world...! 

Just now I read elsewhere how someone got a bit scared the first time he used a Rift in Aerofly, like you would get scared if you were suddenly put in a real plane. I never had that experience. Things looked great and immersive but I never felt a fear for flying. I did get immersed into the sim but I was always aware it was a sim. I did expect that: I was actually hoping that I would pee in my pants during my first landing, like I know I would in real life, but it didn't happen.

I am not saying VR sucks and that I will stop using my Rift because it definitely has some great things going for it, but well... a 2D screen does have some advantages. I have the idea all that detail in LOWI is a bit wasted in VR... It is as if I just can't see straight. The low res is getting annoying. An immersion killer. Which is odd to say about a device that should bring immersion.

But well, I am looking at 2D more often now. I am not totally into VR anymore now. And I was wondering if there are any simmers here who experience the same. Or who even stopped using VR.

 

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Actually, I moved back to 2D flying when flying airliners. When flying airliners, VR is just a bit too stressful for me. Flyinside for P3D is ok, but not yet working perfectly. The pop-up windows, importing pdfs to look at charts, finding the click spots for all switches, the performance, the VAS consumption ... Don't get me wrong, the immersion is great, but when I fly airliners, then it is more about the procedures for me. And I also want to be able to easily step back from the PC when at cruise level to do other things while monitoring the instruments. I have a triple monitor setup with a hardware MCP and switch panels. So 2D flying is also quite immersive for me. However, every once in a while I enjoy firing up Aerofly in VR and crusing along in a GA plane to get that immersion of actually being in the air...

 

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I switch back and forth as the mood hits me.........

I think it's a bit easier for me, because I have the Vr lenses, and that means I can be in vr and out and back in again in the blink of an eye with no hassle.

If I had to fiddle with my glasses all of the time, I would probably gradually build up an aversion.

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I'm an 18000 hour real world pilot. Fly inside and prepar3d v3 is the closest thing to flying you can get period. 

Just flew from KMSP TO KORD with full detail airports and actual weather.

I did everything I would have done in the real aircraft. There's no going back for me. Oculus is a dream come true. 

Cant wait till flyinside has a 64bit version. Only fly the PMDG 747 in prepr3d 4.

The VR is disappointing, but usable.

While I understand I am disappointed about having to buy the same product again for v4.

At least some major players are supporting the move.

 

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It is very hard to go to small screen 2D after VR.  I have 4K monitors and all but once you in the airplane...you can not go back to screen.

 

I am going to try to get Aerofly FS 2, I hear great things about it for VR.  Flyinside for P3Dv4 will take some time, I still can't believe LM releases VR with annoying bugs which could have been fixed prior to release.  I am grounded and will not spend any $ on P3Dv4 or addons till P3Dv4 VR is fixed or Flyinside for P3Dv4 is released.

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4 hours ago, J van E said:

I even fired up Aerofly and LOWI on my 2D monitor and I was amazed by how good things looked. Sharp! In VR everything in the distance shimmers and nothing is really sharp.

Don't give up... the LOWI scenery has a documented graphics issue which presumably will get fixed.

Taking a glider down the Inn valley in VR (once fixed) will be a stunning experience.

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Well, I guess I had a momentarily VR dip yesterday, where the bad overruled the good. Today I flew around LOWI again in VR and this time, which might have helped, I changed the visibility a bit (to a lower value which makes things look more real) and well, ok, things are still pixelated, but the sensation you get... it is great. :happy:

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17 hours ago, carlito777 said:

And I also want to be able to easily step back from the PC when at cruise level to do other things while monitoring the instruments. I have a triple monitor setup with a hardware MCP and switch panels. So 2D flying is also quite immersive for me. However, every once in a while I enjoy firing up Aerofly in VR and crusing along in a GA plane to get that immersion of actually being in the air...

I don't have the hardware yet, debating about whether to wait for the next gen with better resolution. Anyway, the comments on this thread are interesting. Especially this one about cruise mode vs. other flying.

I do almost all my sim flying in the FSEconomy game, where efficiency is important. Flights are basically point-to-point airports following the flight plan loaded in the GPS. I seldom do any extra sightseeing on those flights because it burns extra fuel, plane rental fees, and hour-based maintenance costs on planes I "own."

VR would be fun for takeoff and landing, I'm sure. Maybe even occasionally in cruise mode, since I usually fly bush planes and helicopters where I'm sometimes skimming over a mountain range. However, I'm usually in cruise mode for 1 to 1.5 hours (real time, with 2X time compression in the sim). Total flight time another half hour or so including takeoff and landing.

I can't see myself wearing the VR facebrick for that long. Partly just for comfort, but I also like to web surf or read email during cruise. I disable TrackIR in cruise, and turn it back on just for landing. I suspect I'd use VR the same way. So I'm not sure the cost is worth it for the way I fly.

I'm also not sure the sudden shift in immersion would be much fun, jumping back and forth from VR to 2D monitor and then back to VR for landing.

So I'm curious... are any of the VR users here doing flights lasting a total of say, two hours wearing the headset all that time? Do you go back to 2D for cruise mode? Or are you mainly using VR for short sightseeing flights?

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I can't imagine myself wearing the Rift for over an hour or so... My current flights usually take half an hour tops. If I would be flying an airliner for 2 hours or so I would definitely not use the Rift for it all the time, if only because I'd get bored. In the days when I still did longer airline flights I'd always surf the internet in a window or something like that. Apart from all that, after an hour with the Rift I really start to feel the weight and all... For me personally the Rift is a 'quick' device, not something you'd use for longer periods. And when you are using other programs to follow your flight or to check things, it becomes problematic quick: even checking your checklist or a chart is a problem with a VR device. Whenever 'deeper' planes will be released for Aerofly I will be forced to learn how to fly it in 2D mode because you can't check a tutorial every few seconds with the Rift on.

VR has a lot of drawbacks. It also has a few very positive things. Well... it only has ONE positive side: the immersion. Pretty important of course but there is more to flying, at least for a lot of simmers. It is all a matter of preference if it is worth it for someone.

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I think the turning point for some of this will come when you are able to put your mouse away and flip switches with your VR touch controllers. Along with more sophisticated planes (and what I expect to be an explosion of user generated orthos once the tool is released) I think things are going to get a lot more interesting for Aerofly, and that doesn't even count the eventual release of ATC.

 

 

 

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VR is horrible at the moment. You can't clearly read the gauges and anything off in the distance is fuzzy looking. I tried it for 3 months. I purchased an OR, Flyinside for XP & P3D. I also purchased AF2 and tried it on that. Until the resolution is double what it is now it is terrible.  People kid them selves and say you can read the gauges ok. But it not ok! So yeah I went back to 2D after 3 months and I will not touch another VR unit until its at 4k

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59 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I think the turning point for some of this will come when you are able to put your mouse away and flip switches with your VR touch controllers. Along with more sophisticated planes (and what I expect to be an explosion of user generated orthos once the tool is released) I think things are going to get a lot more interesting for Aerofly, and that doesn't even count the eventual release of ATC.

A good control scheme has to happen sooner or later, especially for the more complex planes. Right now I'm not flying anything more complex than a PC-12, which has a few more essential controls to operate than a Cessna trainer, but not that much for basic flight once the engines are running. Unless I'm doing a cold start, I can run everything without touching the mouse or keyboard using TrackIR, a Warthog HOTAS and Saitek Multipanel. So in terms of basic aircraft management, I'm good for VR in the PC-12 at least. I could run the Multipanel by touch, watching the way the autopilot display changes in the cockpit for things like altitude and VS adjustments. 

FWIW, the Laminar guys have talked about how the new built-in VR support in X-Plane (coming this Fall) will include things like feeling the clicks in a handheld VR controller when moving a knob in the cockpit with that controller. I don't think feeling a button push is there yet. Anyway, they have talked about their target goal for VR being the ability to run a complex airline cockpit with one hand on a physical flight control yoke (or joystick), and one hand holding a VR controller for managing all the switches.

Maybe eventually there will be complete hand-feedback controls so even the physical flight controls could be dispensed with, but that's a lot further down the road. At least at consumer price levels.

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58 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

VR is horrible at the moment. You can't clearly read the gauges and anything off in the distance is fuzzy looking. I tried it for 3 months. I purchased an OR, Flyinside for XP & P3D. I also purchased AF2 and tried it on that. Until the resolution is double what it is now it is terrible.  People kid them selves and say you can read the gauges ok. But it not ok! So yeah I went back to 2D after 3 months and I will not touch another VR unit until its at 4k

When you tried AFS2 and VR, was the Render To Scale option already available? I won't say dragging that slider right will make things look totally sharp but with that slider right I certainly can read the gauges ok. I can even see the small lines on the various Cessna gauges. And I am not kidding myself. But I do agree the resolution leaves a lot to be desired... Most of the time though in my case the immersion factor is higher than the low res annoyance factor.

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1 minute ago, J van E said:

When you tried AFS2 and VR, was the Render To Scale option already available? I won't say dragging that slider right will make things look totally sharp but with that slider right I certainly can read the gauges ok. I can even see the small lines on the Cessna gauges. I am not kidding myself. But I do agree the resolution leaves a lot to be desired... Most of the time though in my case the immersion factor is higher than the low res annoyance factor.

I don't remember. I sold my OR 4 months ago. I was left very disappointed with the experience and I did try.  

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Me too. Glad I was able to return my Oculus Rift 2 after 14 days and get an 34'' UltraWide monitor. VR makes everything blurry. The idea is in the right direction, everything feels so much better, but if you can't read displays and see details in the distance, its ruined. When the resolution becomes comparable to a 4K monitor, I will join again.

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The Rift is good for an 'experience' in a 3D emnvironment, but it is nowhere near ready to headline as your default way of simming.   The wow factor doesn't extend to any kind of serious flying - at this stage. It's all just too clunky.

Short proximity experiences are the thing.  Horror games, cage diving with sharks.  Bloody amazing

 

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Anybody using it on DCS? is it better utilized in that sim? 

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24 minutes ago, Venturi said:

Anybody using it on DCS? is it better utilized in that sim? 

The implementation of VR varies quite a bit from sim to sim, and that can affect your enjoyment of the experience greatly. Keeping that in mind, I would say that DCS affords one of the better VR experiences.

It has the framerate to do justice to the technology.

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1 hour ago, Venturi said:

Anybody using it on DCS? is it better utilized in that sim? 

I can't imagine any sim utilizing VR better than Aerofly FS 2. The problem isn't with Aerofly, it is the hardware that is limited. Still, I am nonetheless happy that I own a Rift.

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It's been said the IL2 implementation is great - fluid and very effective - but I don't even plan to get it for me - no VR...

TIR makes me look silly enough already, and got me this neck pain....

Maybe next life....

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5 hours ago, jcomm said:

TIR makes me look silly enough already, and got me this neck pain....

The kids used to peep round the door and snicker when Dad put on the TrackIR cap.

With the Rift, you won't notice :)

Wouldn't it be nice with 2k per channel, though?

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