>Now I just sit on the couch with my wireless remote, play any>number of games in a matter of minutes, play video, listen to>music, and view photos via Windows Media Center. All on my 65">HDTV.Short of having a 65" HDTV (most don't) I can do all that on my PC. I actually don't watch TV anymore and do all my stuff on my PC, music, news, DVDs, etc. (now if I could just get it to cook for me....)I am a designer, I have to be creative in some way and alter/tweak/mod every game I install, which is probably why I am so anti console (that and the controller). Very happy that works for you, but it wouldn't for me.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

>Let's put it all in perspective. Payware can (and often does)>offer high quality aircraft flight models, systems>simulations, etc, at a reasonable price.Yes it does offer some fantastic products, however the current pre-release/release wait and then finally patch way of doing things is wrong.--qnh

>There are developers that continually push their products before release and then get upset when people start demanding a release date, and then there are those that have pre-release payment options.Ahem, welcome to the entertainment industry. To give a good example, Microsoft just announced FSX and it's still almost a year away. Yet, people are demanding screenshots + further information. For the pre-release hypes, please don't blame the developers, but the hungry people who want to know everything now and then also a finished product and then are unhappy something isn't finished. Developers aren't trained in wizardry. I know it's a vicous cycle, but please don't blame the developers. Learn to live it. It happens everywhere in the entertainment biz, games, movies, you name it.Christian

>>Let's put it all in perspective. Payware can (and often>does)>>offer high quality aircraft flight models, systems>>simulations, etc, at a reasonable price.>>>Yes it does offer some fantastic products, however the current>pre-release/release wait and then finally patch way of doing>things is wrong.>>--qnh You just don't get it. You seem to imply a world that does not even exist in relation to software developement (That is what payware is). If you don't like the way something is then produce something else instead of preaching to the world how you think it ought to be. Chances are you will do no such thing but still insist that your way is the correct way. Microsoft releases patches all the time, why do you think that happens? Should they not "get it right" the first time around? ...............Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

Don't condemn ALL developers.....yes, there are a couple that seem 'reluctant' to issue patches/updates; their reputation around here is legendary! yet, there are developers, even of freeware that issue patches and updates very Promptly....as a quick example, less than two weeks after the release of it's magnificent freebie 737 model, Project Opensky has released an update which adds several improvements to the original - an original release which did work straight out of the box, and waasn't broken, but they 'fixed' it anyway....That's what I do call "promptly"Cheers...

WoW! Can't believe I've read every thread so far. Fascinating. As many different opinions as there are products.... some good - some not so good. Gee, just like the products. ;)

Randy please click this link and read his signature.http://forums.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard.php...26&topic_id=217It appears he is indeed working for PMDG as a MD-11 beta tester! :-lol

Hoi Jeroen>That $50 gets you an addon that took 10 guys half a year to>put together at an investment of thousands of dollars in>reference material, travel cost to meet the real thing and its>owner/operator, maybe even talk with the manufacturer, and>specialised equipment.I know that that is true for some add-ons but there are lots of add-ons that don't have these costs but they get a 'market price' to make it seem like they fall into this category.>But if the EW ATR were to be released today it would be>skinned, scalped, and burned at the stake of criticism and>flames in these here forums for being utterly unrealistic (you>can't even flush the toilet!).Thats part of the problem nowadays. There are some a really excited user that like to flaunt their knowledge about an aircraft and their 'flying experience' and use that to nitpick about everything detail of a product.>If you like the EW ATR better than the F1 model than the style>of addons that people demand these days doesn't appeal to you.>You will still be happy with the $15 addons that are available>as these are the same or better than the $20 addons of a few>years ago which is what you seem to want.I honestly don't know what I want. I can enjoy the level D and the Flight1 ATR for what they learn me about the real aircraft its just that after learning how it all works the high workload and al those switches become tedious. Maybe the sollution lies in something like FS2Crew but I don't have large uninterupted sessions of time that are required to use that add-on (family life).>There's a market for both styles of addons but I fear that you>will find yourself ever more limited to the likes of PF and>Abacus to buy things you like because they're among the few>who target your market segment. And their prices are pretty>much what you seem willing to pay for your addons.No offense but aircraft add-ons from PF and Abacus is not my thing (I call that the lowend market). The middle market is becoming extinct but it is a good thing because its being replaced by good freeware. Take the IFDG airbus + the Eric Marciano panel. The David Maltby Classic British Jet Airliners. The 737 Experience by Felipe and Guilherme "Moach" Falanghe. To name a few.

>>Well Randy,...>>>>With all due respect, I really think you should think twice>>before you post such a lame and uncalled responce. ;-)>>>>IMHO, I think he got a point here...:-)>>>>>>>>>> Is this the pot calling the kettle black? >> Speaking of "high priced" add-ons (In fact the most expensive>aircraft EVER) Staffan, you SURE seem to LOVE Ariane's 737 vc2>and never mentioned a word about it's pricing! I bet this is>also the reason for your nonsensical replys to all my posts.>> Please do not pretend to DICTATE how and to whom I can reply>to on this forum, just who are you to tell anyone how to reply>pal?Randy,...sometimes you are a real funny guy. :-lolBut the sad thing with you though, is that you seam to bash everything without a PMDG tag on it. I think you have been around long enough to stop that obious behaviour. ;-)Regarding the Ariane issue,..YES, I really like their product line. But I am not going to make this another of "those threads". I have never claimed that they have a good price policy. Only that their prices can not be compared with other addons, since you don

>Randy please click this link and read his signature.>>http://forums.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard.php...26&topic_id=217>>It appears he is indeed working for PMDG as a MD-11 beta>tester! :-lol This is correct.I was in the Beta team for Bill Gabrowski

already addressed... ...............Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

As long as we all at least try to stay friends these discussions are good and healthy to have. Okay here's my take on it for anyone who's interested:Back in FS2002 probably the best addon was DF 737-400, a sweet plane and one whose manual I actually found useful when brushing up on the 737PIC from Feelthere. It wasn't as cheap as a lot of the other addon planes, why? Simple, it was one of, if not the first to use a pretty functional FMC unit. Modern times, we don't want simple panels anymore, stuff like PMDG's Queen of the Skies just skims FS it's practically a program in it's own right from what I've heard and read, FS is only used for weather and scenery (literally). For the kind of access these guys get to planes to give us stuff that is truly "as real as it gets" then they have to invest a lot of time. Just an example here to keep it fair to as many devs as I can, the RFP 747-200 classic is a wonderful example of systems modelling, she's long in the tooth now but still stands up well. Add to that a lot of us now want to be able to do everything from the VC, some like to wander back down the cabin(that doesn't appeal to me I confess) it all takes time, that all needs to be paid for. Sure I know some of the companies out there don't have the best support in the world, but some of those are trying to change that (some who've dealt with the one I have in mind know where I'm coming from with that, after the debacle they had with a rather anticipated bird on release) I won't mention their name but the plane itself has now been patched and is absolutely outstanding. If you think about it, we pay what...

>>>Well Randy,...>>>>>>With all due respect, I really think you should think twice>>>before you post such a lame and uncalled responce. ;-)>>>>>>IMHO, I think he got a point here...:-)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this the pot calling the kettle black? >>>> Speaking of "high priced" add-ons (In fact the most>expensive>>aircraft EVER) Staffan, you SURE seem to LOVE Ariane's 737>vc2>>and never mentioned a word about it's pricing! I bet this is>>also the reason for your nonsensical replys to all my posts.>>>> Please do not pretend to DICTATE how and to whom I can>reply>>to on this forum, just who are you to tell anyone how to>reply>>pal?>>>Randy,...sometimes you are a real funny guy. :-lol>>But the sad thing with you though, is that you seam to bash>everything without a PMDG tag on it. I think you have been>around long enough to stop that childish behaviour. ;-)>>Regarding the Ariane issue,..YES, I really like their product>line. But I am not going to make this another of "those>threads". I have never claimed that they have a good price>policy. Only that their prices can not be compared with other>addons, since you don

> Lets keep it real Staffan,>> You cannot post ONE LINK to a thread where I "bash" a>developer's aircraft and what you are talking about is>ARAINE's 737, they are the exception although 'bashing' is an>exaggeration and one way to take the heat off what's really>going on.>> In fact I own most of Flight 1/Dreamfleet add-ons, most of>Carenado's stuff, LDS 767, FeelThere, Eaglesoft and much more.>Of course you have to drag a red hearing across the path>because without it you are left with the facts, the fact that>you do not like the idea that anyone could speak out against>Araine. That's what this is about between you and me so do not>pretend otherwise. Same with Mr Hollywood.>> You need to quit the personal remarks and stick to facts..Randy,My earlier remarks in this thread is about "hobby" developers claiming that developing addons are their full time work,...which in many cases simply isn

I just have three things to add to this thread...1) I paid over