Upkeep

Prepar3d as secondary sim?

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I have been thinking for a while of getting Prepar3d as well a Xplane. I have been an Xplane user since version 9 and also have 10 and 11 which I use all the time. I have a modest amount of payware aircraft and I have no problems with XPlane at all. I particularly like all the community material including airports and utilities, many of which are free. I like the regular updates, the forums, and everything else. In short, I enjoy XP. 

However, I would also like to try something different as well, just for variety., but I have a limited budget and would really want to keep any available expenditure to Xplane, and continue with this as my primary sim. 

Is it worth my getting Prep3d as well, bearing in mind that I would probably limit payware to one PMDG or so.  I have a feeling that I would not be very satisfied with just a vanilla version. Does anyone run Prep3d as a secondary sim, and has that made any sense?

I know a lot of posters use both. I would just appreciate some advice on the matter. As far as I can see there is very little freeware around for Prep3d, so if to make it usable I have to spend a lot it is probably a non starter and I would just keep to XP. 

So, would be interested for some views. 

Thanks so much

Upkeep

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1 hour ago, Upkeep said:

I have been thinking for a while of getting Prepar3d as well a Xplane. I have been an Xplane user since version 9 and also have 10 and 11 which I use all the time. I have a modest amount of payware aircraft and I have no problems with XPlane at all. I particularly like all the community material including airports and utilities, many of which are free. I like the regular updates, the forums, and everything else. In short, I enjoy XP. 

However, I would also like to try something different as well, just for variety., but I have a limited budget and would really want to keep any available expenditure to Xplane, and continue with this as my primary sim. 

Is it worth my getting Prep3d as well, bearing in mind that I would probably limit payware to one PMDG or so.  I have a feeling that I would not be very satisfied with just a vanilla version. Does anyone run Prep3d as a secondary sim, and has that made any sense?

I know a lot of posters use both. I would just appreciate some advice on the matter. As far as I can see there is very little freeware around for Prep3d, so if to make it usable I have to spend a lot it is probably a non starter and I would just keep to XP. 

So, would be interested for some views. 

Thanks so much

Upkeep

You are not going to like Vanilla P3D. You need to pay to play, kind like apps on the apple eco-system. But you knew that already..... P3d does offer a 90 day return policy, but you will be SOL if you purchase PMDG and decide you don't like Vanilla P3D....

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If you're fine with GA, and whatever comes in the future from DTG, get FSW instead.... it's a lot cheaper, and offers some alternative features to the present state of X-Plane... or.... get Aerofly FS2, and enjoy the recently offered Q-400, and the updated A320, B737...

This all assuming you're all for civil aviation, because otherwise I would point you DCS and / or IL2 Battle of Stainlgrad/Moscow/Kuban

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2 hours ago, strider1 said:

You are not going to like Vanilla P3D. You need to pay to play, kind like apps on the apple eco-system. But you knew that already..... P3d does offer a 90 day return policy, but you will be SOL if you purchase PMDG and decide you don't like Vanilla P3D....

I agree here. For me P3D needs a lot of addons to make it worth playing. With that said, once Orbx (Global, Vector, OpenLC Na, & HD trees) and 3rd party clouds  / weather are installed, P3D shines well and stacks well against the competition. FSW comes pretty feature rich right out of the box for GA flying.

 

 

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I recently picked up P3D v4. What really frustrated me immediately is that everything is payware, and the base  sim needs lots of addons for it to be decent. At a minimum, I needed a camera system for doing views, a basic weather engine, ORBX global and some aircraft. All of this costs a lot of money and coming from X-Plane  where people release tools and addons for free, this frustrated me. Not only does the sim cost $200, but you are then required to pay out even more money for things that other sims have built-in (Which is just wrong in a sim that costs so much money). Oh, and when P3D v5 comes out with minor features, you'll have to pay that $200 again.

Also, be prepared (see what I did there ;-) to pay more for identical products as well. Developers have made a habit of charging "pro" prices for their addons, e.g. An A2A aircraft can set you back $79 and PMDG products over $100. No working GPS, so yes you have to buy a 'pro' license cost as well. Looking for a tweaking tool or OSM scenery, yes even that is payware :biggrin:

P3D certainly isn't an impulse buy. You need to invest a lot in the platform to get any enjoyment out of it. Luckily my ORBX products still worked from my FSX days, but everything else I owned needed to be rebought for nearly double the price. The only thing that I enjoy on that platform is the A2A planes which are unbeaten on X-Plane, everything else I don't care for.

FSW on the other hand, that works out of the box, has great weather depiction, a friendly UI, great built-in airplanes, and it only cost me $25. Once addons start appearing for this platform, I can't see how P3D can compete anymore.

 

 

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P3D and its addon ecosystem certainly offer a great simulation environment. I had installed v2 and v3 for a long time parallel to X-Plane, along with a LOT of OrbX stuff, the A2A Comanche, the PMDG 737. Weather came from FSGRW (the same tool I use for X-Plane), and I had the Flight1 GTN750.

Theoretically, I wouldn't have needed anything else for my flying purposes (which was: Relaxing from X-Plane-related development & support), but the VAS-related OOM crashes always stressed me. Even when I did not have any OOMs I was still afraid of getting these and constantly monitoring VAS. However, this problem is gone now with P3D v4, so I'll definitely take another look at P3D soon (although currently I prefer to invest my money in my real-world flying lessons).

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Thank you all so much for taking the trouble to reply. All your comments are most helpful and interesting. I am glad I posted my question.

It is interesting that you could take a vanilla version of XP, add just freeware and one or two donation ware and get a pretty fine sim without having to pay a penny more.

I think the conclusion so far is that Prepar3d is not an impulse buy (which I think would be the case for me for a secondary sim) and that if purchased I would end up having to add a lot of payware, which I really don't want to do. This is especially the case as I like tubeliners, though I do try out GA occasionally, and would possibly be content with a GA only secondary sim. 

I think I would rather channel what budget I have into XP. The comments about FSW and Aerofly instead are interesting and I may decide to follow that route. I have DCS, which I do find fun, though the learning curve is a little steep for me in some respects, ie I get shot down pretty quickly so it is a short sim experience!

Anyway, thanks again for all the very useful comments

I appreciate your taking the time.

Best wishes

Upkeep

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IMO no sim is looks good without addons , but P3d makes ones pocket empty.

 

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I totally agree with everybody else.  P3D (anything) as vanilla...well..sucks.

Get ready to shell out $$$ to bring it to your satisfaction.  I have hundred's of GB's of 'stuff' jammed into my P3D v3.4....so be warned.....

...and it still will not come close to the night life feel, that XP brings tens seconds on your system, right outta the gate...

Yep....

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Thanks very much for the additional comments. Looks like P3D is going to be a too expensive route to take....

Thanks again.

All the best

Upkeep

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16 hours ago, jcomm said:

If you're fine with GA, and whatever comes in the future from DTG, get FSW instead.... it's a lot cheaper, and offers some alternative features to the present state of X-Plane... or.... get Aerofly FS2, and enjoy the recently offered Q-400, and the updated A320, B737...

This all assuming you're all for civil aviation, because otherwise I would point you DCS and / or IL2 Battle of Stainlgrad/Moscow/Kuban

I was going to suggest FSW but I don't think PMDG has a add-on for that sim. Aerofly is a low resolution orthosim. Now that we have orth4xp and the ability to create high quality orthos, why even waste your money with Aerofly? And the aerodynamics 172 are unrealistic last time I checked.

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I hear Aerofly mentioned a lot; just out of curiosity what is the attraction of only having a couple of relatively small areas to fly in, when the others have the whole world? Reminds me of MS Flight! 😉

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P3D & limited budget = NO GO!

 

I just purchased a powerfull pc for xplane11. Decided to give P3D a try, why not? Purchased P3Dv4 + ORBX Global + PMDG738 (USD 250 in total). Looked absolutely horrible, quite an archaic simulator, felt like i was on my fs2004 days while i was fs user 15 years ago.

 

But if you look at some youtube videos you can make it look much better spending big chunk of money on many addons.

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Thank you all again. Very interesting additional remarks, especially mmerelles comments on his set up and PMDG etc,  and I think that this and all the other postings in this thread confirm the best action for me:

1. Drop the idea of P3D completely

2. Concentrate any available budget on one sim: XP

In fact, you can have a lot of fun on XP with actually having to spend anything at all. That is a great strength of the sim.

All the best

Upkeep

 

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To be fair, if you've historically been using P3D the costs have been minimal concerning addons and P3D versions.

I can definitely see how moving to the P3D platform for the first time can be intimidating, especially if your knew to the ESP platform.

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13 hours ago, Upkeep said:

This is especially the case as I like tubeliners, though I do try out GA occasionally, and would possibly be content with a GA only secondary sim. 

If you like tubeliners, like detailed major airport sceneries, don't mind paying for a decent weather injector like AS2016, then the base license, PMDG, Airports, Weather injector sit you back 5-6 hundreds, and you would have a nice secondary tubeliners sim platform.  If I were to have the time and patience for tubeliner, that's what would make my tubeliner sim.  Right now, I am enjoying GA flying with Ortho4XP in XP11 too much to think about whether I need to get into a tubeliner (I have the PMDG, the weather injector, the paid airports sceneries already, so my cost would be the base sim), which right now is just not my thing.

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I will give you my impressions and personal opinions, having tested them both.

Graphically, P3D v4 looks much better once you install at least ORBX FTX Global textures. You can save money on HD trees, since the default animated 3D trees look awesome. I like P3D graphics much more than XP11's, which looks underwhelming to me even after tweaking it and installing HD mesh, water overhaul and VFR landmarks, because glitches such as color banding on sky and water and reflection bugs persist, ruining the experience.

On the other hand, XP gives you the opportunity to download real world ground textures from Bing, Google maps, etc. and improve at least the look of the terrain significantly, at the cost of much time to be spent looking for good sources and downloading, and huuuuge amounts of hard disk space.

P3D v4 ATC is basically the same as FSX and therefore much better than XP11's. In XP11 you can't even tune on ATIS frequencies and request airport directions and landing clearance in VFR flights, and often (always!) the controller keeps requesting for instructions you already have executed. XP11 ATC is very bad, I would not even consider it beta, rather alpha.

On the simulation / flight model point of view (premise: I am neither a real life pilot nor an expert!) to me XP ground handling is terrible and the effect of wind gusts seems exaggerated. On the other hand, XP has sloped runways while P3D hasn't, and looks a lot smoother than P3D at fps <30.

Add-ons: yes, most P3D add-ons are payware. Real world weather, however, can be obtained for free with FSXWX + FSUIPC (the unregistered version works just fine).

Altough with the sad, strictly personal consideration that all flight simulators currently available for PC are still underdeveloped with respect to the hardware potentialities, I believe that P3D could give you something - at least something "different" - in addition to XP11 experience. So if you have money to invest, you may consider to buy P3D as well.

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7 hours ago, enek0id said:

Graphically, P3D v4 looks much better once you install at least ORBX FTX Global textures.

Even with ORBX global textures, P3D still looks too cartoonish for my taste.

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On 7/31/2017 at 2:53 AM, tonywob said:

I recently picked up P3D v4. What really frustrated me immediately is that everything is payware, and the base  sim needs lots of addons for it to be decent. At a minimum, I needed a camera system for doing views, a basic weather engine, ORBX global and some aircraft. All of this costs a lot of money and coming from X-Plane  where people release tools and addons for free, this frustrated me. Not only does the sim cost $200, but you are then required to pay out even more money for things that other sims have built-in (Which is just wrong in a sim that costs so much money). Oh, and when P3D v5 comes out with minor features, you'll have to pay that $200 again.

To be fair, the P3D EULA explicitly states that it is not intended for the home user or as entertainment software, and I suspect it is priced accordingly.  Even X-Plane's professional edition carries a substantially higher price tag than its home-use version.

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21 hours ago, Upkeep said:

...the best action for me:

1. Drop the idea of P3D completely

2. Concentrate any available budget on one sim: XP

Instead of spending money on add-ons, spend the money on putting together the best computer you can so you can max-out XP11.  I think that would have the best long-term payoff.

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On 30/7/2017 at 8:58 PM, Upkeep said:

I have been thinking for a while of getting Prepar3d as well a Xplane. I have been an Xplane user since version 9 and also have 10 and 11 which I use all the time. I have a modest amount of payware aircraft and I have no problems with XPlane at all. I particularly like all the community material including airports and utilities, many of which are free. I like the regular updates, the forums, and everything else. In short, I enjoy XP. 

However, I would also like to try something different as well, just for variety., but I have a limited budget and would really want to keep any available expenditure to Xplane, and continue with this as my primary sim. 

Is it worth my getting Prep3d as well, bearing in mind that I would probably limit payware to one PMDG or so.  I have a feeling that I would not be very satisfied with just a vanilla version. Does anyone run Prep3d as a secondary sim, and has that made any sense?

I know a lot of posters use both. I would just appreciate some advice on the matter. As far as I can see there is very little freeware around for Prep3d, so if to make it usable I have to spend a lot it is probably a non starter and I would just keep to XP. 

So, would be interested for some views. 

Thanks so much

Upkeep

Try asking in the P3D forum, they are just as religious about there favorit sim. :dry:

They all have there pro and cons, personally I like the look of P3D better then X-plane 11, but that is personal taste.

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Indeed, you will get a very different answer in the P3D forum.

If you are already invested in the platform then going to v4 is likely a no-brainer, but for anyone new to simming or migrating from X-Plane, the prices are going to come as a shock.

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Thanks again everyone for all the replies. Everything has been very helpful and I do appreciate all the comments made.

Thanks again.

Regards

Upkeep

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