My understanding is you can have a program to edit the shaders but you can't distribute them for money. The shaders are the  property of LM. But maybe I'm wrong about that. 

2 minutes ago, Lenny777 said:

My understanding is you can have a program to edit the shaders but you can't distribute them for money. The shaders are the  property of LM. But maybe I'm wrong about that. 

You cannot distribute them period, free or not.  The files are copyrighted material.Any shader program can modify them but once modified they cannot be distributed.

Vic

4 minutes ago, Lenny777 said:

My understanding is you can have a program to edit the shaders but you can't distribute them for money. The shaders are the  property of LM. But maybe I'm wrong about that. 

You cannot edit LM files and profit from it, you can though create new files based on the same technology.

For example you can create new shaders, and the SDK on V4.1 has methods to register these so the sim use them instead of the base files, but you must create these shaders from scratch.

What you cannot do is take LM files (including shaders) change them, distribute them and profit from it, if you do it is very possible an F22 will find you and take you out 

Regards 

Simbol 

The screenshots look really quite convincing. And it does work in P3Dv3. If it’s really that cheap when it gets released, I’ll definitely give it a try. Right now I am using an old free version of the P3D tweak assistant. But with all its controls, it might be powerful, but simply a bit too complicated for me. ;-)

31 minutes ago, simbol said:

it, if you do it is very possible an F22 will find you and take you out 

The F22 is SO last year, the F35 is their new pride and joy! Although it may not make it to their house, or even into the air due to some inevitable technical issue or delay so they should be safe! 

will it be compatible with rex4+soft clouds?

 

1 hour ago, Japo32 said:

will it be compatible with rex4+soft clouds?

 

I'd imgaine it would be, it's only shaders after all.

9 hours ago, vgbaron said:

You cannot distribute them period, free or not.  The files are copyrighted material.Any shader program can modify them but once modified they cannot be distributed.

Vic

Didn't they actually do that until recently, with their standalone version of PTAbsolute...? Afaik the download included edited shaders. Maybe that's another reason why the link to those files are dead now. Although of course the main reason will be the upcoming release of the payware ENVSHADE.

Come to think of it: I do wonder, since you can't edit things with ENVSHADE, if ENVSHADE is nothing more than a PTA preset with some modified shaders. Just like their standalone version. Maybe TOGA projects should read the small print of various EULA's once again to prevent costly mistakes.

EDIT
I didn't post the above to start (yet another) debate about this all but out of concern.

Good thinking but I guess it all depends on whether ENVSHADE will deliver newly developed shaders or modified default shaders where the first one would be OK but not the second one.

As for PTA I know for certain it came delivered with a preset. So, from a legal point of view let's hope and assume that preset wasn't based on the default shaders.

Personally I find all this quite confusing - haven't 3rd party devs been improving different aspects of the simulator since day one where this fact has also played a big role in the success of the core product?

I'm just glad it's resolved and that no-one gets hurt.  They are both great developers and it would have been a shame if TOGA got snuffed in the process.  It benefits us all.  I still think Matt has a point, but the community is better off with both at the table.

It is each developer responsibility to stay in line with LM copyrights rules, everything is clear under their agreement and also on their SDK instructions.

You can read this on their SDK as it is a public document: http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/add-ons/add-on_instructions_for_developers.html 

There is a note at the end that says:

NOTE: Please be aware that Prepar3D's base installation files should never be modified by developers. Instead, use an accepted way of distributing Add-ons.

Best Regards,
Simbol

7 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

As for PTA I know for certain it came delivered with a preset. So, from a legal point of view let's hope and assume that preset wasn't based on the default shaders.

A preset is just a text file: it's not a shader itself so it can't be 'based' on a default shader.

13 minutes ago, ErichB said:

I'm just glad it's resolved and that no-one gets hurt.  They are both great developers and it would have been a shame if TOGA got snuffed in the process.  It benefits us all.  I still think Matt has a point, but the community is better off with both at the table.

I fully agree! 

8 minutes ago, simbol said:

It is each developer responsibility to stay in line with LM copyrights rules, everything is clear under their agreement and also on their SDK instructions.

You can read this on their SDK as it is a public document: http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/add-ons/add-on_instructions_for_developers.html 

There is a note at the end that says:

NOTE: Please be aware that Prepar3D's base installation files should never be modified by developers. Instead, use an accepted way of distributing Add-ons.

Best Regards,
Simbol

Great info that makes it all very clear what is OK and what is not.

3 minutes ago, J van E said:

A preset is just a text file: it's not a shader itself so it can't be 'based' on a default shader.

Makes sense.

32 minutes ago, J van E said:

Didn't they actually do that until recently, with their standalone version of PTAbsolute...? Afaik the download included edited shaders.

No, in PTAbsolute package you have ini files only (PTA presets). No shaders included.

18 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

As for PTA I know for certain it came delivered with a preset. So, from a legal point of view let's hope and assume that preset wasn't based on the default shaders.

Shaders are just a computer program, that is compiled and run on GPU. Source codes for them are included with each Prepar3D installation. You can even edit them by yourself using Notepad. From legal perspective, there is no problem if you provide software, that would modify this source code (the same way you would open it and edit in text editor).

The problem is if you would include source code for shaders and distribute them with package.

5 minutes ago, twojastara said:

No, in PTAbsolute package you have ini files only (PTA presets). No shaders included.

Shaders are just a computer program, that is compiled and run on GPU. Source codes for them are included with each Prepar3D installation. You can even edit them by yourself using Notepad. From legal perspective, there is no problem if you provide software, that would modify this source code (the same way you would open it and edit in text editor).

The problem is if you would include source code for shaders and distribute them with package.

Got it but glad I'm not a P3D add-on developer having to worry about these kind of stuff all the time.

Guess it's not a big problem though as long as you make sure you understand what has been said here.