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ENVSHADE announced

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The TOGA website has a news announcement today this has been released.  Don't see it on any vendor sites yet.  Guess it is a PTA sort of shaders mod program but it all does the modifications behind the scene and seems dynamic based on environmental conditions (weather, time of day, etc.).  Really interested to see how this pans out and others thoughts on it.

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Hi Folks,

Well I like their ENVTEX product - be interested in seeing some reviews - I'm intrigued...

Regards,

Scott

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Really really curious how this is compared to PTA. I know with PTA I could set it up so the haze, especially during the summer months was very realistic. As well, I could have the nights dark like they are supposed to be unlike how the default looks. I have Envtex and will be waiting to see some reviews on this....

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From what I understand, they did modify the shaders by themselves. So it is not a preset for PTA. It is just doing the work of PTA and some more other stuff.

I really like Envtex and their previous preset (PTA absolute), so I am watching this closely.

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I got the email about this but I don't think it has been released yet.  It appears it was just an announcement of the product to be released sometime this month.  Looks interesting but what I have found with all of the shader 'presets' is that it is hard to find one where everything suits your liking.  If daytime looks great, nighttime usually doesn't look good, etc, etc.  It does not appear these can be tweaked or adjusted but for the minimal price I will likely give them a try when released.  I really like their Envtex product.

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Hi Folks,

Where is it released ?

The couple screenshots on the TOGA forum look really dark and dreary...

Regards,

Scott

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Sorry I misunderstood 'announced' from 'released'.  The news article just announced it formally I guess.  Maybe the thread title could be changed to 'ENVSHADE announced'.  I got carried away seeing all this might be able to do...whether it does it to everyone's satisfaction is a good point and yet to be seen.

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If the new shader product will truly be dynamic, it will be a game changer.  The thing I don't like now about all the various shader addons (freeware or payware) is you can't get both a day and night shader preset configuration to work without having to restart the sim for separate presets.  Makes flying flights that overlap those time frames a pain in the *ss now.

 

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I'm really looking forward to this one too!

Maybe I misunderstood but I was under the impression that the product is already completed and now we're just waiting for SimMarket to pull their finger out.

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Eh, reading their Facebook and digging around, it sounds like another "PTA-like" preset they rolled into a proprietary software and their "exclusive" features are just their custom tweaks they also used in their PTA preset, which they want to protect now. Smells like an easy money grab as anything involving the word "shaders" seem to get people hot under the collar these days. 

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11 minutes ago, Sethos1988 said:

Eh, reading their Facebook and digging around, it sounds like another "PTA-like" preset they rolled into a proprietary software and their "exclusive" features are just their custom tweaks they also used in their PTA preset, which they want to protect now. Smells like an easy money grab as anything evolving the word "shaders" seem to get people hot under the collar these days. 

If true, won't be buying. Rubbish.

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15 minutes ago, B777ER said:

If true, won't be buying. Rubbish.

Only speculating here. It's just the vibe I'm getting from the description and the vagueness of the developers. Here's a response to a guy suggesting a similar thing;

Quote

In essence our new product tweaks the shaders, absolutely, which you can do with PTA. 
But not all Envshade tweaks are feasible using PTA, moreover PTA is not free and Envshade results are unachievable using PTA. 
Also, some of our custom tweaks we created from scratch in our free PTA presets were used by other developers, including PTA itself without any credits. 
Envshade will help protecting our work as well as allowing users to get something easier to use without the need to work on anything.

You can of course edit your shaders manually for free, but this is not something most of the simmers want to do. 

Why would another developer be more rightful than TOGA projects to create a product and sell his work? We have always been totally respecful with our customers regarding supports and price philosophy and your usual comments sounds pretty unfair.

Not really seeing any focus on 'dynamic' shaders, as people here are suggesting. What I am seeing, is a vague "But not all Envshade tweaks are feasible using PTA" that explains very little and then a long passage of basically protecting their custom PTA preset tweaks. Everything I've seen so far just smells like them selling a PTA preset with some custom lines they want to lock down so nobody can see them.

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The Envshade page states "highly realistic shaders reacting to many environment variables...", so I`m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt about it being 'dynamic` until proven otherwise.  But yeah if it is just some static embedded PTA equivalent to hide thier settings then it is a no go for me also.  But I'm sure they understand savy customers will have a close eye on this so are pushing for dynamic operation that PTA can`t do.

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LOL! Is the ANY product announcement that we can NOT have wild speculation about. I can almost guarantee that regardless of how they do it, *IF* the product is good enough AND unique enough - we will buy it, period.

 

Vic

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I'm very happy with the job TOGA did with Envtex (and with the support they provided when I had an issue). I'm willing to spend the 5 euros to check this thing out. Doesn't seem like much of a money grab to me.

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14 hours ago, B777ER said:

Really really curious how this is compared to PTA. I know with PTA I could set it up so the haze, especially during the summer months was very realistic. As well, I could have the nights dark like they are supposed to be unlike how the default looks. I have Envtex and will be waiting to see some reviews on this....

That interests me, I stayed out of PTA but you can do that, make it more hazy? How do you do that?

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Sounds really amazing!
Product page here

For €5?! Seriously... That's incredibly cheap!

Soon available on simmarket for 5€
Special offer will be available for Envtex users

Don't know what 'special offer' is - they can hardly cut anything from the €5 which makes sense... :biggrin:

Can't wait!

Thanks to the OP for bringing this up.

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Sounds really nice

----------------------------------------------------------------

This feature list is still being built and may be adjusted (for the best of course!)

2 supported simulators

  • Prepar3D v4
  • Prepar3D v3

Friendly user interface

  • Full integration in the new common user interface for a quick access to all your TOGA products

Atmosphere

  • Atmosphere scattering
  • Low horizon haze effect

Sky

  • Saturation depends on altitude and weather

Clouds

  • Shadows effectiveness adjusted
  • Brightness variating with weather, time of day, sun and moonlight
  • Saturation variates with weather and power of sunlight
  • Directionnal sun lighting corrected in P3Dv4

Water

  • Saturation depends on weather
  • Reflection variates with altitude
  • Waves size depends on altitude and weather (for non ultra water settings)

Terrain & autogen

  • Shadows effectiveness adjusted
  • Saturation depends on weather
  • Brightness variating with sun and moonlight adjusted

Lights

  • Adjusted night lights brightness
  • Smooth day/night transition
  • Brightness and visibility variate with altitude

Aircraft

  • Internal brightness variating with sun and moonlight adjusted
  • External brightness variating with sun and moonlight adjusted

HDR enhancements

  • Eye's adaptation to brightness adjusted
  • Adaptative Bloom, effectiveness variates with time of day
  • Realistic night brightness with soft day/night transitions
  • Adjusted contrast
  • Adaptative contrast

Several presets available

  • Performance preset for a smooth experience without any impact on fps
  • High quality preset for outstanding screenshots but with a cost on performances

----------------------------------------------------------------

Again... very nice.

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It will be like a PTA Light.

Btw : PTA already has Dynamic changes , where settings change depending on time of day or preciptation Yes/No etc

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15 minutes ago, GSalden said:

It will be like a PTA Light.

Btw : PTA already has Dynamic changes , where settings change depending on time of day or preciptation Yes/No etc

Does it?! 
Never noticed that, I must admit... 

If that's the case, then why is it neccessary to make different presets for night and day?

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1 hour ago, Anders Bermann said:

Directional sun lighting corrected in P3Dv4

Anyone know what v4 bug this refers to?

gb.

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36 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

Does it?! 
Never noticed that, I must admit... 

If that's the case, then why is it neccessary to make different presets for night and day?

That's a very good question.

IMO, the problem finding a preset that works for you regardless of time of the day or current weather seems to be the biggest issue for most people using the currently available add-ons for shaders.

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36 minutes ago, gboz said:

Anyone know what v4 bug this refers to?

gb.

That one caught my eye too.

Imagine if it had anything to do with how the sun currently will make things cast shadows even on an overcast day and this will sort that sub-par design.

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Hello guys,

Thank you very much for your interest in Envshade !
I'm sorry to read that some of you doubt of our honesty about the "dynamic" shaders. We wouldn't announce that if it was not the case.

To clear up things, yes Envshade will be similar to PTA, simply because it's also there to tweak your shaders, however, if similar tweaks are included, we also have some tweaks that PTA doesn't have, or at least it does it differently. I don't really consider it as a real PTA competitor because it also have a fully different philosophy, if you like "click & use" products, then this is definitely for you, if you prefer to customize everything by yourself then you should look at PTA.

About hiding our code, yes this is also the purpose of this product, and this is why I added this comment on our facebook page because someone (a troll probably) suggested we were not right to sell our products, why would we be less rightful to sell our work than other developers? 
There is nothing we want to hide to the community, all developers do their best to hide their work to other's eyes, that's part of any business. This doesn't mean we are not opened to work with other developers and that we will take your money by selling you something you already have.

Envtex was created because I felt, myself as a simmer, that the other offers on the market were not fully giving satisfaction. I had the same thoughts about PTA, some users simply don't want to tweak everything themselves and/or download tons of preset to find the good one.

Envshade started by PTAbsolute, during this summer we worked at creating an advanced preset for PTA, at this stage we started to think about an alternative to PTA, considering how advanced was our preset and what happened with some preset creators and REX (but I'd like to insist it was not their fault and things were solved during gentlemen's discussion). In a nutshell, someone created a preset using our work which included some custom tweaks developped from scratch without any credits, then REX asked them to use their preset and they accepted, making our work being used by our main competitor to promote their product. That's now solved and REX kindly added us to their credit files, we didn't feel fair to ask them to put this tweak out now that they were already using it. Shaders tweaks are practically not owned by Matt, me or anyone but Lockheed Martin. PTA or Envshade just plays with existing simulator variables, and if it was possible, only one guy could really own it : Predrag Drobac who has initiated shader tweaks with Realism shaders pack some months/years ago. The base tweaks used by PTA and Envshade are still the same (and don't worry Predrag knows that).

Thus, considering how unrespectful some people can be and the consequences, we decided to keep working on a standalone product, we kept enhancing it and we now have something very advanced. As PTA doesn't offer any protection for us, preset creators. we don't think it's absolutely fair that other developers can freely use tweaks we made with hard work to make money with it or enhance their reputation using our own work and without a "thanks" (I am not a coder initially but a long-time texturer and a beginner in modeling, coding is absolutely new to me, fortunately we have a coder in the team who can help but still, developping Envshade was not easy).

Is it completely different from PTA in the results? No there are many similarities, but you won't have to tweak anything, the compatibility with Envtex is optimal, transitions will be much smoother, many many things will adapt by themselves depending on environment variables that are available in shaders data as explained on the website.

Envshade also required some user interface development which can be very costly, we thought it would be fair to sell our product with a low price in order to:

  • Bring something new with a different philoshophy from PTA (which is an absolutely great program and I will keep encouraging Matt Davies to develop it, I am fully willing to work with his team if there is any point to do this)
  • Bring very advanced tweaks adjustements and a few new tweaks
  • Get the money from UI development back
  • Better protect our adjustments & new tweaks

 

Be sure we, at TOGA, will always be fair with the community and we will always be willing to tell you why we decide this or this, I'm a long-time FS user who is not only a developer but also a user who buy his products like everyone, and as a user I don't like to feel fooled either.

Hope this answers correctly your questions and doubts,

 

(Sorry for the looong post and possible spelling errors I wouldn't have seen)

 

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KMAX59. Thanks for the explanation with which I completely agree.  Please bring your product to market as soon as.  I am waiting to purchase :)

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