WebMaximus

An opportunity for any add-on developer to be first

Recommended Posts

One of the things that really annoys me and has been for many years is how the seasons in the simulator don't match reality. At least that is the case here in Sweden. I guess the same thing is true in many other locations as well around the world.

I've discussed this in the past with the Orbx guys since I first thought it was an Orbx issue after doing some testing where I found out the below:

Winter looking at FTX Global textures starts 1/11
Winter in P3D starts 22/12

Spring looking at FTX Global textures starts 1/3
Spring in P3D starts 21/3

Summer looking at FTX Global textures starts 1/5
Summer in P3D starts 21/6

Fall looking at FTX Global textures starts 1/9
Fall in P3D starts 22/9

Holger Sandmann over at Orbx told me the problem lies within the default seasons control file (seasons.bgl, in \Scenery\Base\scenery) and he also told me how Orbx fixed this in FTX Norway by making their own custom seasons file for this area. Apparently that control file also covers parts of Sweden to avoid a hard border between these two countries.

Even when I'm sure FTX Norway is great I don't want another local scenery product. What I would like is a product that will make sure I get the correct season in the simulator.

I'm thinking when Orbx was able to include such a custom seasons file in FTX Norway it must be possible to do the same thing elsewhere and release this as a separate product. Either as a global product or like several local products covering different areas of the world just like with many other products such as mesh, textures, landclass, night lighting etc etc.

As the topic hints, to my knowledge any developer who would come up with this kind of "product line" would be first and I would certainly be willing to pay for getting the correct seasons in the same way I pay to get other things as close to real life as possible in the simulator.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Is it so important for you to fly on the present day? If not, now that you now so precisely at which dates P3D does the season switch, simply fly on a matching day. I also use "system time and date" inside my P3D setup, but basically just because, I actually do not really care if my sim has the same date as the real world at the moment I want to fly around...

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

As the topic hints, to my knowledge any developer who would come up with this kind of "product line" would be first and I would certainly be willing to pay for getting the correct seasons in the same way I pay to get other things as close to real life as possible in the simulator.

Should that also include the climate changes due to global warming? :dry:

Share this post


Link to post

OK, so some mixed input.

Of course I don't have to use the correct date and can cheat in that way getting the result (season) I want.

However, I would prefer to have a correct representation of the seasons in the same way I like having a correct representation of the actual weather for instance without having to manually build a weather theme to match current weather conditions. Sure, picking another date is much easier than setting up correct weather but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

As for including climate changes due to global warming. Having that modeled would be impressive but for starters I would be happy with just seeing something in the simulator that roughly matches what I see looking out my window when it comes to seasons. Rather than having a winter wonderland in P3D today for example when IRL it's a rainy day here in Stockholm with +8C outside and still lots of leaves on the trees in all different kinds of colors.

Luckily you rarely see a winter wonderland when you look out of the window in early November in Stockholm although Sweden is symbolic for ice bears walking down the streets 365 days/year for some less educated people around the world :laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
49 minutes ago, Lawy said:

Depends on which definition is used to define the "correct" season start and end dates:

P3D seasons are based on the astronomical definition, whereas FTX are using the meteorological definition. 

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/seasons/spring/when-does-spring-start

That's very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Clearly looking at that information the astronomical way looking at seasons is what matches real life best at my location.

Share this post


Link to post
42 minutes ago, tooting said:

or the timezones.

True.

Find it strange how such simple things as getting the time zones correct still is an issue in 2017 but what do I know...maybe it's actually harder to fix than you might think.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Or it was so low on the priority list of LM that it was never addressed properly...

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Egbert Drenth said:

Should that also include the climate changes due to global warming? :dry:

It's not global warming anymore, it's now the politically correct term climate change.:biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, WebMaximus said:

Luckily you rarely see a winter wonderland when you look out of the window in early November in Stockholm although Sweden is symbolic for ice bears walking down the streets 365 days/year for some less educated people around the world :laugh:

No! That only happens in Finland! :biggrin:

Nota Bene: it also happens in northern Alaska and Canada as well.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Egbert Drenth said:

Should that also include the climate changes due to global warming? :dry:

Since the base data is from 2006, perhaps we should include the climate changes that were predicted in 2006, basically that the earth would be a smoking cinder devoid of life by now...  :-O

We could call it HysteriX Global.

Bwaaaaahahaha

 

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, WebMaximus said:

True.

Find it strange how such simple things as getting the time zones correct still is an issue in 2017 but what do I know...maybe it's actually harder to fix than you might think

their biggest customer is the miltary,  who dont care about time zones, they just want a product with VR to train cadets the basics of effects on controls and ground school etc etc and if you can sell a ton of licenses to uncle Sam then you're laughing all the way to the bank.   Simple as that.  Don't be under any other illusion

Share this post


Link to post

Yep, I guess that is true for many things people in here wish for that still haven't made it into the sim.

Share this post


Link to post

SimElite Solutions fixes the timezones with "Time Zone Fixer" and is current. 

It is still being updated regularly, unlike FSRealTime which uses old .bgl files done by Dennis Thompson (I think that is his name) which are over a decade old now.

As for the seasons...well, every part of the world would have to be redone with updated bgl files.  I'm not sure if you can just "layer" a bgl for just the seasons on top of another scenery bgl.  The whole bgl tile would have to be redone from the ground up.  Just speculating.

Share this post


Link to post

Exactly what could/would be needed to be done to accomplish this I don't know, but since Orbx managed to come up with a local solution as part of their FTX Norway product clearly it's doable.

Thanks for the tip about Time Zone Fixer! Never heard of that one before but will check it out. Used FS Real Time long time ago.

Share this post


Link to post

A follow-up question on Time Zone Fixer.

On the product page it mentions it will work well with FS Real Time but what I didn't fully understand is if FS Real Time is required?

Or will it work just as good with the 'Keep FS clock synced' feature in FSUIPC I'm currently using to make sure the time stays correct throughout a flight?

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, tooting said:

their biggest customer is the miltary,  who dont care about time zones, they just want a product with VR to train cadets the basics of effects on controls and ground school etc etc and if you can sell a ton of licenses to uncle Sam then you're laughing all the way to the bank.   Simple as that.  Don't be under any other illusion

The military doesn't care about time zones?  Where'd ya get that one?  You think military units live in their own world without interacting with local civilian populations and organizations that operate on local time?  ding ding...wrong guess, minus five.

P3D is far more useful than just as a rudimentary basic flight training tool for "cadets".  For example, the platform is useful for non-flying procedural simulation of complex aircraft and aircraft systems, so that a crewmember undergoing qualification training in an aircraft can practice basic procedures...for example preflight system tests, starting checklists, basic malfunctions, FMS programming/use etc.  The platform is also useful for part task mission training, for example practicing close air support coordination procedures with ground controllers and joint partners without tying up a multimillion dollar full simulator.

Your concept of the utility and the usage of microsimulation products like P3D is really incomplete..."Uncle Sam" and the other militaries and government users around the world see microsimulations like P3D as a very cost-effective way to do a wide variety of training events that are either cost-prohibitive due to the high costs of flying hours and/or time in high-fidelity full systems simulators, or simply not possible due to limited availability of the same.  In the 1980s, when we learned cockpit layout and basic procedures in a T-38, or a C-141, we sat in front of inanimate cardboard mock-ups...today's trainees have tools like P3D to add a whole new interactive dimension to the process.

I ran a branch of the USAF staff in the Pentagon that did the programming for employment of next-generation transformational training tools like this.  There are all sorts of fascinating ways these sorts of simulations can be (and are) used that go far beyond the limited concept of cadets learning "pull back on the stick and the houses get smaller."

Regards

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

A follow-up question on Time Zone Fixer.

On the product page it mentions it will work well with FS Real Time but what I didn't fully understand is if FS Real Time is required?

Or will it work just as good with the 'Keep FS clock synced' feature in FSUIPC I'm currently using to make sure the time stays correct throughout a flight?

FSRealTime isn't required.  It's the BGLs in TimeZone Fixer that controls the time.  It fixes the time zones, and updates the STD/DST changes globally (like here in North America where the DST change is in November/March today, unlike in 2006 when FSX came out and it was in October/April.

You can still use the FSUIPC sync option with no problems.

Share this post


Link to post

@w6kd Thanks for sharing this interesting info how P3D is actually used in "the real world".

@netshadoe Sounds great! Will get it right away considering the low cost to have this issue finally gone.

Share this post


Link to post

Does not bother me the slightest bit. I don't usually fly in real world time. I like to look on flightaware and recreate a flight using a real world route.  I live in the Yukon Canada so we have snow on the ground a good month before southern Canada in the fall. So naturally its not going to match Orbx seasons perfectly but I really don't care either.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe the seasons could be fixed by SimElite - excellent customer service.  I will check with Vahid

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, pracines said:

Time zones are fixed; its updated regularly, inexpensive, and very easy to install: 

https://simelite.com/index.php

Maybe the seasons could be fixed by SimElite - excellent customer service.   

Already bought it but thanks anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post

Funny enough as far as seasons go, 2 days ago it was snowing here in Edmonton IRL. The sim represented that well, including the fact the ground wasn’t covered. Yesterday it blanketed the city and once again the sim represented that well with the textures. I think that’s a coincidence 

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, WebMaximus said:

Already bought it but thanks anyway. 

Richard , let us know how well it works.

regards, Gerard

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now