The bottom line is that VATSIM is a superb environment which really takes the sim world to another level which any tinned ATC package cannot provide.  Making mistakes is part of the whole experience if made in good faith -  and just when you think you know it all - you make mistakes yourself - like I did last night.  But trolls should be kicked off the network alot quicker and easier.

1 hour ago, iwebber said:

But that's what everyone who works in a nice, safe, warm office miles from any customers, screaming children, dirty planes or dangerous weather thinks...

i was cabin crew for 10 years,  I never once thought anyone in an office owed me a favour,  I was glad to be paid to work in a tin tube for 12 hours and then get paid to sit in a 5 star hotel.  I was happy to have a job that i applied to do.  I never once called in fatigued or once had "bad ears" so I could go to a stag do or wedding.

But Unforgettably thats your job, you applied for it, you then went for an interview for it to persuade a panel of people to give you the job and guess what, if you dont like it theres 2.2 million people unemployed in the UK and someone else can do it.  Your just a pilot.  nothing more.    No one lied to you on the job advert, no one lied to you at the interview and no one lied to you on the training course.  You could just do your job, like the people in the warm office.

 

1 hour ago, tooting said:

i was cabin crew for 10 years,  I never once thought anyone in an office owed me a favour,  I was glad to be paid to work in a tin tube for 12 hours and then get paid to sit in a 5 star hotel.  I was happy to have a job that i applied to do.  I never once called in fatigued or once had "bad ears" so I could go to a stag do or wedding.

But Unforgettably thats your job, you applied for it, you then went for an interview for it to persuade a panel of people to give you the job and guess what, if you dont like it theres 2.2 million people unemployed in the UK and someone else can do it.  Your just a pilot.  nothing more.    No one lied to you on the job advert, no one lied to you at the interview and no one lied to you on the training course.  You could just do your job, like the people in the warm office.

 

Don't knock it until you have done it.....

1 hour ago, tooting said:

I never once thought anyone in an office owed me a favour,  I was glad to be paid to work in a tin tube for 12 hours and then get paid to sit in a 5 star hotel.  I was happy to have a job that i applied to do.  I never once called in fatigued or once had "bad ears" so I could go to a stag do or wedding

Nor me... (although I've yet to sit in a 5 star hotel) and I did go fatigued once... when I was fatigued. I've also called in sick a few times... when I've been sick. Unfortunately it's a legal requirement for me to be fit for duty, if I'm not, I have to report in sick, CAA rules I'm afraid. I don't just sit in some nice warm office somewhere, where I can do my job with a hangover/cold/headache, I'm at the sharp end. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities but we are only human and subject to much more stringent medical standards than most.

I think that that is what upsets most non flying staff the most, the fact that, as crew, we answer to a higher power (the CAA) rather than some management bod. They can throw around whatever rules they just made up at us and we just fall back on, "sorry, I'm sick/fatigued/out of hours" and there's nothing they can do.

We come under a lot of pressure to go into discretion/work/do extra flights all the time and usually we do. Sometimes though, it's just not the right thing to do and we have to say no, it's a complex decision that takes a lot of time and thought, we don't say no lightly and are acutely aware of the implications, however, we've made that call because we truly believe that the other option involves hurting someone and that's what we're paid to avoid. It upsets some of the office bods (but there are some really good ones who 'get it' and we always hope they're on when we call) and they think we're just being "pampered Pri Madonnas" but unfortunately those are the decisions we are paid (and trained) to make.

Unfortunately, sometimes our jobs conflict with each other and most of the time we'll win, I get it must be frustrating and I don't doubt some abuse it but handling it is the job *you* chose, sorting out that kind of thing is what *you're* paid to do, so (in your words) just do your job.

1 hour ago, tooting said:

But Unforgettably thats your job, you applied for it, you then went for an interview for it to persuade a panel of people to give you the job

Just like you did, and yet here I am, loving my job and not complaining about/slagging off the people I work with...

1 hour ago, tooting said:

guess what, if you dont like it theres 2.2 million people unemployed in the UK and someone else can do it. 

No they couldn't, they'd have to come up with £100k, get accepted at a flying school and then earn nothing for 18 months (where they still have to pay rent/mortgage/electricity/gas/water/council tax and food) while they passed all the exams and flying tests, then get employed by an airline...

Then they could do it, just like you could if you put the time and effort in.

1 hour ago, tooting said:

No one lied to you on the job advert, no one lied to you at the interview and no one lied to you on the training course.  You could just do your job, like the people in the warm office.

Never said they did... and I do.

You appear to have chosen a curious career for someone who hates pilots on such a primeval and basic level, maybe you should let one of those 2.2 million unemployed people have a go and take a break, it sounds like you need it.

6 hours ago, tooting said:

no it doesnt.  thats only 2 days a week in the summer when we put the extra one on with the extra vegas too.  Normally its only the 15 and 27.

 

 

 

During the summer I see half your fleet of 744's at MCO but yes I understand it's seasonal and some are headed to GLA.

you make out your martyr, youre not your a bus driver. 

Like I said come into your airlines OCC anytime sit with a controller for an hour and you'll see another picture from your pilot and crew colleges and not one based upon some newletter from Balpa or come galley fm rubbish.

 

  

1 minute ago, B777ER said:

During the summer I see half your fleet of 744's at MCO but yes I understand it's seasonal and some are headed to GLA.

3 from gatwick

2 from Manchester

1 from Glasgow

1 from Belfast

2 minutes ago, tooting said:

3 from gatwick

2 from Manchester

1 from Glasgow

1 from Belfast

Yep, thats why it looks like a VIR hub in late afternoon/early evening when IROPs kick in due to the daily thunderstorm activity and delays pile up, wind up with all of them there.

48 minutes ago, iwebber said:

 

You appear to have chosen a curious career for someone who hates pilots on such a primeval and basic level, maybe you should let one of those 2.2 million unemployed people have a go and take a break, it sounds like you need it.

you can low ball me all you want I dont care what you thik of me, I get 20 pilots/crew a day ranting daily at me,

Its based on the fact ive done both sides, front line as crew and as ops in the office.  Like i said,  just for once go into your office sit with them and get out of  "crew world" for an hour youll change your mind.  All the crew ive ever met that have come from crew and gone into the office have ended up being amazed at pilots and crews naivety of the bigger picture

5 hours ago, jacf182 said:

Just to be an ***hole...

So the OP comes here legitimately asking for advice as a VATSIM beginner and he gets told off because he doesn't follow real world procedures to the very last detail.

So, as a VATSIM beginner just as the OP, I must ask: Is VATSIM only meant for real world pilots with more than 10000 certified B747 hours? Is it not true that most airports with proper control are the big ones, because almost everyone flies airliners on VATSIM? How is a beginner supposed to get acquainted with VATSIM if not by making mistakes and having fun along the way, instead of being told how effing wrong he is? Yes, the ultimate goal is realistic immersion, but you don't get there on the first day, or first month even.

Jeez...

 

On Vatsim for over 15 years and in my experience the US and Asian controllers are more tolerant than the UK and German controller's. Their irritation meter goes up fairly quickly.  Can't speak for the rest of Europe as I don't frequent it enough. 

5 hours ago, tooting said:

 

ps,, Just to give you an example, Ive just had a pilot call up complaining that he had to sit next to a child on a paxing flight of 3 hours within the US.

  

Gotta agree, many are the biggest self-entitled  cry babies I've ever seen.

This is like little children arguing who is right

I am right. No you're not. I AM. No you're NOT. I go tell my dad and he's a policeman !!!

15 minutes ago, B777ER said:

Gotta agree, many are the biggest self-entitled  cry babies I've ever seen.

I heard one on the train to gatwick last week (they didnt know i was sitting behind) talking to an other pilot to convo went like this. 

pilot a: Here look at my Christmas roster

pilot b: Oh god look at that duty on the 23rd 

pilot a : I know ill go fatigued for that one 

pilot b: Oh i dont blame you.

pilot a;  I KNOW YOU SPEND YOUR WHOLE LIFE GETTING IN THE PILOTS SEAT AND THE REST OF IT TRYING TO GET OUT OF IT.... 

 

The trip hes gone fatigued for was an absolute sod to recrew and envolved shafting 2 more pilots just because he doesnt want to do the trip.

 

That sums its up in one scenerio,  Hes going fatigued and shaft someone else for a Christmas trip and then admitting he rather not do the job hes supposed to do.   

I hear that sort of stuff all the time.

2 hours ago, tooting said:

i was cabin crew for 10 years,  I never once thought anyone in an office owed me a favour,  I was glad to be paid to work in a tin tube for 12 hours and then get paid to sit in a 5 star hotel.  I was happy to have a job that i applied to do.  I never once called in fatigued or once had "bad ears" so I could go to a stag do or wedding.

But Unforgettably thats your job, you applied for it, you then went for an interview for it to persuade a panel of people to give you the job and guess what, if you dont like it theres 2.2 million people unemployed in the UK and someone else can do it.  Your just a pilot.  nothing more.    No one lied to you on the job advert, no one lied to you at the interview and no one lied to you on the training course.  You could just do your job, like the people in the warm office.

 

 

How many out of those 2.2 million unemployed people are ATPL qualified pilots?

1 minute ago, mikea76 said:

 

How many out of those 2.2 million unemployed people are ATPL qualified pilots?

None its a metaphor,  its thinking out of the box.  what do you want a cookie for having one