The 717 has come a long way, but its still missing alot of the little things.  The developers also don't seem to have anyone on their team that actually fly's the aircraft in real life, and I believe they have based their entire simulation on just reading the aom, so we have no way of knowing if the feel of the flight model even comes close to the real thing.  

I have the B717, the MaddogX and I'm waiting for the old school Dc9 from Coolsky version P3Dv4.2...

These 3 planes are both very close and at the same time very different. If you do not fly only on existing routes, then you will be able to enjoy it!

Regards,

Edited March 2, 20188 yr by DrumsArt

8 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

Hey all,

For those that don't have the patience to go through the whole story, you cna skip to the last paragraph where I'm asking the actual question. Though, the rest of the story has some information that might help in answering the question...

I'm installing P3Dv4 from scratch on a new computer, having been away from simming for about two years or so. Being back, my first impression is that a whole lot has changed - for the good, mostly! This means re-buying a bunch of sceneries and aircraft that are incompatible, which puts me in the unique position of being able to  'restructure' my simulator, and a big part of that is deciding on three or so aircraft that will be my go-to aircraft in the sim. I do this because I know from experience that even if I have as many as ten airliner,s I really only fly three of them consistently. So, see this as an exercise in saving money! Here's what I have decided so far: 

• I will re-purchase the PMDG 737NGX, because several airlines I like to fly exclusively use this bird (KLM, Transavia, Alaska Airlines, Norwegian...), and from my past experience with this model, I know how much I enjoy flying it.
• Whenever it becomes available, I will  upgrade  the Aerosoft Airbus series. Airlines I want to fly use them a lot (SAS, Swiss, Austrian, Delta...), I can get them cheaply through the upgrade price, and I always had a blast flying them.
• I will upgrade my Majestic Dash 8-Q400 and take it for hops with Austrian around Austria, Wideroe around Norway and Alaska/Horizon Airlines around California

Now here's the thing. Back in FSX I used to use the Leonardo Maddog, and adored it. Flying it was fun and challenging, and so when I saw the MaddogX released some weeks ago for P3Dv4, I was convinced that I'd buy it.

But, I'm the kind of simmer that likes to fly aircraft on their actual routes. Real-world operations of the MD80 series are very limited, not least by their dwindling numbers:  also the bases from which they appear to operate. For exmaple, using Flightradar24, I tracked Delta's MD80 service to predominantly KATL. I do not mean to upset people, but I don't particularly like flying in and out of KATL... In general I'm not really into those behemoth US airports (such as KATL, but also e.g. KORD and even KLAX), preferring their smaller, regional counterparts, such as KLGA, KDCA, KMDW...

Some more research showed me that the MD80's more modern cousin, the Boeing 717, is actually operated by Delta in some of these regional airports, and I quickly found that the TFDi 717, which, in the two years that I'd been out of the hobby, had been released. And so I did some research into it. Here's my impression of it:

Pro's of the TFDi 717:

• Good-looking model
• system simulation seems to be to the extent I require (on par or beyond Aerosoft's Airbus)
• MD-11 style cockpit and operation (right...? I loved the PMDG MD-11 operation, so if the 717 is similar, that'd be a HUGE plus!)
• Suitable for short hops
• Under Delta banner it flies into regional airports of importance to me, such as KLGA and KMDW
• Some positive reviews
• Cheaper than the Leonardo MaddogX...

Cons of the TFDi 717:

• Despite my love of the MD-11 style cockpit, I'll miss the MD80 style cockpit...
• Some critical reviews, particularly regarding flight dynamics (strange nose pitch-down issue?)
• product page gives hardly any info

So, I realize some threads were opened about the TFDi 717 over the last few months, but since we are a few months further now and those other threads really didn't answer my question. My main problem is that I found there is a significant lack of basic information on this plane, partly because for a while there seemed to have been an open beta, and it seems to keep evolving as time goes by, making it really hard for me to figure out what's going on with it at any given time point. Hence this thread, and the following questions: 

1. To what extent is my above impression of the TFDi 717 representative of its current state?
2. What's good about it and what still needs work? (i.e., what is the current state of this addon?)
3. How extensive is the system simulation exactly? I want to be able to realistically go through all the (pilot-performed) procedures from cold and dark to startup and beyond. I do NOT need failures or any of that kind of stuff...

Please note I'm not looking for answers that compare the Maddog with the TFDi 717. I know the Maddog seems to be a humongous success, and more than worth the money. Just to remind, and for those that skipped to the end, the only reason I'm hesitant to get the MaddogX is because of it's limited real-world use, and non-existent use at essentially every airport I like to fly in and out of. This thread is really just about the TFDi 717 and its current state.

Thanks for any input!

Benjamin

There were about about 150 B717 ever produced, and there are currently more MD-80 Variants flying than the B717.  So if your issue is real world usage...

Also, I would recommend looking for Regional trips rather than what a particular platform is actually flying. You'll get a LOT more out of your sim and aircraft this way.

My best best wishes!

 

I have about 200 hours on the TFDI 717, and purchased it second week of release, I opted in for the beta versions and have watched it evolve into a truly magnification aircraft that is a tad short of what I would call study level. I fly Qantas routes varying range in short hops of 200nm to longer 1600nm (Qantas operate 20, 717 aircraft).

There are still a few glitches that need to be addressed, particularly VNAV in descent and the TOD calculations vary, even on the same sectors flown with same alt/speed settings. Despite onging assurances TDFi have not released the painkit for the 717. Documentation is basic but accurate, but there a numerous YouTube tutorial available, the load manager allows for calculated fuel weight to be added or distance flown and is necessary to work out CG etc, but is easy to use. The onboard cockpit tablet allows charts and approach plates to be read directly from the cockpit. TFDi have recently introduced 'trueglass' which, when flown through weather has rain drops and streaks of built up water, showing on the glass - looks very real.

In summary, the TFDi 717 is a good in depth aircraft that replicates all systems to a reasonable level of detail, it is fairly priced, has good product support and gets better with each update.

Where do you download the version that works in 4.2?

I downloaded the Addon Manager and next to install in P3Dv4 'Coming soon'?

 

Thanks,

Mark

Thank for those last few posts detailing experiences with the 717, it's much appreciated! Let me just quickly respond to each one of them...

16 hours ago, kenthom said:

Benjamin, I to like to fly real world equipment and routes.  When in doubt, I'm a charter flight.  LOL   The 717 has become my plane of choice.  It handles like a dream with a great feel to it.  I particularly enjoy the sounds.   It takes a little bit to get used to as all good planes do but you will have it mastered in a short period of time.  The lighting, both interior and exterior is excellent.  There is a little delay when you turn on the RW lights individually.   It seems very real to me.  Plus you have the tru glass that gives you more authentic rain as well as fogging up the windows.  I get great performance with it.  Very similar to PMDG but everyone's rig is different.  After reading your posts and learning what you are looking for I would highly recommend it.

Very useful commentary, thank you! I'm glad to hear you're liking it that much!

 

15 hours ago, Pilot53 said:

The 717 has come a long way, but its still missing alot of the little things.  The developers also don't seem to have anyone on their team that actually fly's the aircraft in real life, and I believe they have based their entire simulation on just reading the aom, so we have no way of knowing if the feel of the flight model even comes close to the real thing.  

I couldn't really find any evidence of there being a RW pilot or not, though they did mention 'bringing some data to their guys', so perhaps they do. I do hope so, otherwise it kind of makes the whole thing a little shaky. Though, truth be told, I've had addons 'back in the day' that were advertised as being 'tested by RW pilots' and didn't seem to perform that way at all, when put to the scrutiny of the community. I'm curious what things the 717 is missing in your view?

 

11 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

I have the B717, the MaddogX and I'm waiting for the old school Dc9 from Coolsky version P3Dv4.2...

These 3 planes are both very close and at the same time very different. If you do not fly only on existing routes, then you will be able to enjoy it!

Regards,

Yeah, the DC9 is a plane I wanted to have for a long time, until I realized I don't have the patience for that type of analog flying... So which of the two you have now sees the most flying?

 

11 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

There were about about 150 B717 ever produced, and there are currently more MD-80 Variants flying than the B717.  So if your issue is real world usage...

Also, I would recommend looking for Regional trips rather than what a particular platform is actually flying. You'll get a LOT more out of your sim and aircraft this way.

My best best wishes!

Well I don't want to go into this yet again, but suffice it to say that the problem is NOT the number of aircraft still flying, it's the ROUTES they are flying! the 717 is used on many, many Delta Airlines routes, the MD80 not so much. Though, I should admit to one thing here: If I'd expand my number of Delta hubs by getting e.g. PacSim's Salt Lake City, I'd have a bunch of extra routes to put the MD80 on (since Delta flies MD90s on them... I know, different aircraft, but close enough in my view...)

 

11 hours ago, JustanotherPilot said:

I have about 200 hours on the TFDI 717, and purchased it second week of release, I opted in for the beta versions and have watched it evolve into a truly magnification aircraft that is a tad short of what I would call study level. I fly Qantas routes varying range in short hops of 200nm to longer 1600nm (Qantas operate 20, 717 aircraft).

There are still a few glitches that need to be addressed, particularly VNAV in descent and the TOD calculations vary, even on the same sectors flown with same alt/speed settings. Despite onging assurances TDFi have not released the painkit for the 717. Documentation is basic but accurate, but there a numerous YouTube tutorial available, the load manager allows for calculated fuel weight to be added or distance flown and is necessary to work out CG etc, but is easy to use. The onboard cockpit tablet allows charts and approach plates to be read directly from the cockpit. TFDi have recently introduced 'trueglass' which, when flown through weather has rain drops and streaks of built up water, showing on the glass - looks very real.

In summary, the TFDi 717 is a good in depth aircraft that replicates all systems to a reasonable level of detail, it is fairly priced, has good product support and gets better with each update.

Wonderful post, thank you! Exactly the kind of info I need. It does sound like there are some important things that still don't work that well yet, though I'm glad to hear you enjoy flying her and express confidence in the development team.

 

10 minutes ago, newtie said:

Where do you download the version that works in 4.2?

I downloaded the Addon Manager and next to install in P3Dv4 'Coming soon'?

 

Thanks,

Mark

With all due respect, TFDi has a forum for this kind of stuff. Why don't you go there and ask your questions there instead of in this thread...?

 

At this point, I'm biased towards the 717, due to the RW routes this plane flies. However, it sounds like the 717, while doing very well, isn't quite there yet. I might just lay off of it until it well and turly comes out of beta. In the meantime... Perhaps I will get the Maddog. If I were to get PacSim's KSLC, about which I've heard people rave as well, it would open up additional routes of interest.

I've been flying the 717 almost from the inception. TrueGlass and RealLight are both native features and now implemented in the Maddog. There have been various updates for the 717. One thing you will appreciate is the cockpit and outside model - both top notch as far as I am concerned. The systems are nicely modeled. SimBrief has the xml flight plan file compatible with the fms.You will also note a fairly substantial overhead when in the cockpit in terms of fps. Flyability is fine but on occasion I have had the plane refuse to to follow the magenta line to the next WPT.

Two weeks ago I got the Maddog. To me it is the plane of the year. And I mean going back to 2017 (after that would be Capt'n Sim's 757). With FSCrew to boot, it right now can't be beat on systems, FMS, looks inside and out, everything we prize in flightsimming.

@Benjamin J If you have any additional questions about our aircraft, I'd be happy to assist!

2 hours ago, Lenny777 said:

I've been flying the 717 almost from the inception. TrueGlass and RealLight are both native features and now implemented in the Maddog. There have been various updates for the 717. One thing you will appreciate is the cockpit and outside model - both top notch as far as I am concerned. The systems are nicely modeled. SimBrief has the xml flight plan file compatible with the fms.You will also note a fairly substantial overhead when in the cockpit in terms of fps. Flyability is fine but on occasion I have had the plane refuse to to follow the magenta line to the next WPT.

Two weeks ago I got the Maddog. To me it is the plane of the year. And I mean going back to 2017 (after that would be Capt'n Sim's 757). With FSCrew to boot, it right now can't be beat on systems, FMS, looks inside and out, everything we prize in flightsimming.

Hi Lenny and thank you for the thoughtful comments. It was indeed my impression that the Maddog trumps pretty much everything right now.

 

1 hour ago, GameSyns said:

@Benjamin J If you have any additional questions about our aircraft, I'd be happy to assist!

Hi joshua, sure! Thank you :) I might send you a PM later on if that's okay?

Just now, Benjamin J said:

Hi joshua, sure! Thank you :) I might send you a PM later on if that's okay?

Sure thing!

9 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

With all due respect, TFDi has a forum for this kind of stuff. Why don't you go there and ask your questions there instead of in this thread...?

Y'all could ask to have a TFDi thread opened here.

Like the 20 other developer threads have. . .

 

No due disrespect

N99WB

Edited March 3, 20188 yr by n99wb

With all due respect, I posted at their forum prior to posting here, with no response.

3 minutes ago, newtie said:

With all due respect, I posted at their forum prior to posting here, with no response.

I see... only reason I suggested that was because it seemed to me you’d find more help there... but perhaps not.

2 hours ago, newtie said:

With all due respect, I posted at their forum prior to posting here, with no response.

You don’t need to be apologising, you asked a question about the 717, specific to Prepar3D, in a thread on this topic in the P3D forum.

Ironically, OP got the same “go to the TFDi forum” unhelpful response in the first reply to his post!

if we adopt this attitude - go to the manufacturers forum for everything - there wouldn’t be much left to discuss here, would there? And right now, this is best place on the net to discuss my favourite sim, P3D. I think we should keep it that way.

as to the answer to your question, I too was hoping someone could answer that with specifics. I do know from previously looking  this up a few months back that the beta is freely available to all owners. I’ve also heard that the beta is very stable in p34 at this point. I’ve certainly considered purchasing the 717, but thought I would wait until the first official non-beta P3D-compatible release, which I’d thought would have happened by now.

id also be very interested in any users experiences with this aircraft in p3d, re: smoothness (something the q400 and Maddog have, but the crj lacks).

I do have the Maddog and have flown it a lot in P3D. The trueglass, which was developed by tfdi for the 717, adds a surprisingly large amount of immersion (I definitely noticed it’s absence once I went back to PMDG). And as has been mentioned here already, it’s an all-around great plane.

re: 717 and real routes. I note the comments above about qantas having 20 of these planes. I fly on them regularly in Western Australia, where they’re heavily used. The mining companies also use them as charters, if I’m not mistaken. They’re badged as QantasLink, which is often operated by other companies (Network Aviation etc). They’re good planes to fly on, though not as comfortable in the pax section as the 737 NG, which is Qantas’s other main aircraft around my part of the world. I’ve spoken to a couple of pilots, who seem to enjoy flying them- unlike the previous jets Qantas used in this role on these routes, the Bae146. Those were not loved by the pilots and other crew!

I also am a real world type of simmer, so while I was leaning on the Maddog, I've always wanted the 717 to fly America routes especially Hawaiian AIrlines, goes well with the FSDT Hawaii airport packages. Plan on buying it before the summer. Glad to see it still developed and refined!