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FSL back at it again

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I have been reading about the drama on Reddit.  Someone was able to look at the files and basically said there is nothing there but placing them in the Windows directory with names similar to system names is clumsy at best.

Edited by MarkW
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*gets in before thread closure*  🍿😃

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Just now, F737NG said:

*gets in before thread closure*  🍿😃

so true.

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Why the hell are they putting files in Windows system folders? I get it: you want tough anti piracy... But the anti-piracy methods are being discovered anyway. If they are going to touch my windows system files (or allow mini trojans in their EXEs) then maybe I'd be better off without this addon. Very displeased with this crap.

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I already got a refund after their first gaff!!!! 

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18 minutes ago, MarkW said:

I have been reading about the drama on Reddit.  Someone was able to look at the files and basically said there is nothing there but placing them in the Windows directory with names similar to system names is clumsy at best.

It might not be anything nefarious, but installing anything in the main windows directory is a big no-no....especially with no prior knowledge to the user.  But it's FSLabs, no surprise at all.  

Go to /r/flightsim....they have all the info there, and it WONT be deleted.

Edited by nazethc
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Any program I have ever shared over the web does not use installation routines or the registry, just local .cfg files, if needed for the program or printer parameters.  I learned how to write code in assembler and basic and c++, for MS-DOS and Windows 3.1.  Most of my programs today are backward compatible all the way back to Windows 95, and one to Windows 3.1.  I am not bragging, I cannot write business important programs to run mega companies, and I've only made one sim aircraft with crudely coded but workable XML gauges, because I wanted the aircraft to work with whatever followed FSX, and fortunately it did--my ultralight trike here at Avsim works well in P3D4.2

I feel developers landing junk in the Windows core is garbage, and suspect.  They either do not know what they are doing or know full well what they are doing.  And if they get caught at it, I hope the market economy determines their fate.

They may complain about pirating but holding someone's personal computer hostage, with all the other programs that have nothing to do with their product, is wrong. I am being polite and politically correct but I want these developers to imagine the words I am thinking, and I will leave it at that.

John 

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Oh dear..

Simbol 

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12 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

Any program I have ever shared over the web does not use installation routines or the registry, just local .cfg files, if needed for the program or printer parameters.  I learned how to write code in assembler and basic and c++, for MS-DOS and Windows 3.1.  Most of my programs today are backward compatible all the way back to Windows 95, and one to Windows 3.1.  I am not bragging, I cannot write business important programs to run mega companies, and I've only made one sim aircraft with crudely coded but workable XML gauges, because I wanted the aircraft to work with whatever followed FSX, and fortunately it did--my ultralight trike here at Avsim works well in P3D4.2

I feel developers landing junk in the Windows core is garbage, and suspect.  They either do not know what they are doing or know full well what they are doing.  And if they get caught at it, I hope the market economy determines their fate.

They may complain about pirating but holding someone's personal computer hostage, with all the other programs that have nothing to do with their product, is wrong. I am being polite and politically correct but I want these developers to imagine the words I am thinking, and I will leave it at that.

John 

This sums it up....well said Sir!

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What, in the name of all that's good, is wrong with these guys?

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12 minutes ago, RichieFly said:

What, in the name of all that's good, is wrong with these guys?

Better question, why do people continue to support them with their wallets?  

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They haven’t learned their lesson, and they won’t. Probably doesn’t hurt that readers at Avsim were actively protected from hearing about what they did the first time.

Shaking my head.

James

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I have spoken with my wallet as well, no support from me for this sort of activity

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I doubt AVSIM will be knocking its knees and biting its fingernails because of a legal threat by a developer colouring outside the lines, at least I hope so. There are people here with integrity. 

As far as what the company is reported to be doing, I hope it is false as it would be, if true, a breech with enormous negative consequences within this community, in my personal and private opinion.

I too will not be buying their product either if this linked report is accurate.

Kind regards,

Stephen.

Edited by SpiritFlyer
Still can't spell much beyond about grade 5. :)
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14 minutes ago, SpiritFlyer said:

I doubt AVSIM will be knocking its knees and biting it' fingernails because of a legal threat by a developer colouring outside the lines, at least I hope so. There are people here with integrity.. 

I also hope Avsim lets this thread stay up, as this is the second time FSLabs has been caught using "shady" anti-piracy methods.

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Hello

The Topic will stay open as long as the conversation stays general and clear of DRM discussions  

 

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I purchased both the recent FSL Concorde and the A320 for FSX (wonderful products).  But unless and until this sticky situation is resolved, FSL will not be getting any more of my cash...     

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I will buy future FSL products! 

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Just read this topic after downloading the latest version and installing it earlier. This was my first install of the A320X since the last fiasco became public.

Some pics of what was changed and added during the installation and file locations.

https://ibb.co/nQTYay

https://ibb.co/dtxgTJ

 

Edited by Sid Starz
text error

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37 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

I will buy future FSL products! 

Me too.

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Much ado about nothing IMHO. As I read some of this, the main complaint from some is that files are put into Windows System folder. Hate to be the bearer of bad news to those but MANY programs ( not only in FlightSIm) put files in system folders. Just as many use the registry for storing information - which it was designed for.

Actually the registry was originally designed to eliminate the need for all those .INI files that were populating the Windows root folder in past days. Then some programmers decided to use .CFG files etc.

The problem is not in where these files are located, it really makes NO difference to your system but it may make a difference to the program - the key thing is whether they are cleaned up during an uninstall.

I fear that some are just making noise for the sake of making noise.

Vic

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42 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

Much ado about nothing IMHO. As I read some of this, the main complaint from some is that files are put into Windows System folder. Hate to be the bearer of bad news to those but MANY programs ( not only in FlightSIm) put files in system folders. Just as many use the registry for storing information - which it was designed for.

Actually the registry was originally designed to eliminate the need for all those .INI files that were populating the Windows root folder in past days. Then some programmers decided to use .CFG files etc.

The problem is not in where these files are located, it really makes NO difference to your system but it may make a difference to the program - the key thing is whether they are cleaned up during an uninstall.

I fear that some are just making noise for the sake of making noise.

Vic

The problem comes to making backups of software, in case there is a problem.  If the user does not have full knowledge of where the software is and there is a loss of data on the device, or a move to a new system because of a system failure, then it becomes a hassle that developers of entertainment titles should not put on users.  We are not talking about software meant to run department stores, or hotels, or hospitals. We are talking about user entertainment and the lengths some developers are going thru to make it nearly impossible to keep the license when the user has a setback, which does happen.  I have released amateur software on my own, but have worked for the big companies as well, including IBM, JDA, and the Hotel PMS companies that have a lot more to lose.  We did not put our end users thru such hoops, we always made it clear how they could back up what we licensed to them.   And yes, piracy is a danger even in those realms that I had worked in.  In case my bona fides are suspect, I am on LinkedIn, where my past employers have validated my work history, but I do not believe we need to go there.

John

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To be honest I'm impressed this thread has stayed open with the heavy handed censorship avsim usually sports as well as the threats of libel from the developer. That said, whether or not the files being in that location itself is harmful, even if their previous "debacle" technically didn't harm anyone, it is the principle of the thing that I dislike. Whether or not I or anyone was directly affected and the file was not harmful, the entire principle behind their actions shows a lack of respect and tact for everyone. Also a prime example of the Streisand effect, their actions in response to the discovery of this file being placed in the system folder I find is even worse than the act of putting the file there itself. Their attitude towards the situation certainly leaves one with a bad taste in the mouth.

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4 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

The problem comes to making backups of software, in case there is a problem.  If the user does not have full knowledge of where the software is and there is a loss of data on the device, or a move to a new system because of a system failure, then it becomes a hassle that developers of entertainment titles should not put on users.  We are not talking about software meant to run department stores, or hotels, or hospitals. We are talking about user entertainment and the lengths some developers are going thru to make it nearly impossible to keep the license when the user has a setback, which does happen.  I have released amateur software on my own, but have worked for the big companies as well, including IBM, JDA, and the Hotel PMS companies that have a lot more to lose.  We did not put our end users thru such hoops, we always made it clear how they could back up what we licensed to them.   And yes, piracy is a danger even in those realms that I had worked in.  In case my bona fides are suspect, I am on LinkedIn, where my past employers have validated my work history, but I do not believe we need to go there.

John

I understand your logic but IMHO backing up installed software is an exercise in futility. If it's a simple one folder install, fine but according to that logic any program  that uses the registry is also "bad". I'd simply back up the original installer, backing it up after install, without doing a system backup is fraught with danger except in the simplest of cases. As these newer software titles, scenery and aircraft are becoming more complex doing what you suggest becomes increasingly difficult.

If I were still producing software I'd recommend a backup of the original NOT after install. I also know of several very popular flightsim titles that will fail miserably if you tried to use that sort of backup.

Vic

 

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