Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Ray Proudfoot

Why do yoke and throttle makers not use Hall Effect sensors?

Recommended Posts

Pots based on hall sensor technology still cost an average of 30-50 each. I agree that customers should at least have a choice to pay the additional cost. It's important to remember that if item A costs 200 without hall sensors , and that same item  costs 400 with hall sensors, that's twice the cost. The customer needs to know and must have a choice. My approach is to have hardware in which some wearable components like pots can be changed easily, which is not the case with the Saitek.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

@flyforever, that would be 30-50 per axis I presume so for a 4 axis throttle quadrant that would add up to 200USD (or 150UKP).

Given they would outlive any pots alternative I'm sure there are many who would like the option. I certainly would as long-term they would be the cheaper option and would sell second-hand in a heart beat.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, flyforever said:

Pots based on hall sensor technology still cost an average of 30-50 each. I agree that customers should at least have a choice to pay the additional cost. It's important to remember that if item A costs 200 without hall sensors , and that same item  costs 400 with hall sensors, that's twice the cost. The customer needs to know and must have a choice. My approach is to have hardware in which some wearable components like pots can be changed easily, which is not the case with the Saitek.

There are three of them in the Thrustmaster T 16000M and the total cost for that stick is around $50. Hall effect IC's have been around forever and are inexpensive. 


PF3 Beta Tester

Bob Cardone        P3D 3,4       FlyVirtual.net   Aivlasoft EFB2  /pf3-supporter.gif

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

There are three of them in the Thrustmaster T 16000M and the total cost for that stick is around $50. Hall effect IC's have been around forever and are inexpensive. 

Two, actually...the throttle axis on the T16000M is a pot...at least that's what the Guillemot customer service guys told me.

The bare Allegro HE chips I used were ~$2.50 each in quantities >10.  The Honeywell rotary HE sensor units were $45, IIRC.

Regards

 


Bob Scott | AVSIM Forums Administrator | AVSIM Board of Directors

ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

System: i9-10900K @ 5.2GHz on custom water loop, ASUS Maximus XII Hero, 32GB GSkill 3600MHz CAS15, eVGA 2080Ti XC Ultra, Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@30Hz, 5xSamsung SSD, eVGA 1KW PSU

SB XFi Titanium, optical link to Yamaha RX-V467, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf spkrs, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro, PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensors, Coolermaster HAF932 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Two, actually...the throttle axis on the T16000M is a pot...at least that's what the Guillemot customer service guys told me.

The bare Allegro HE chips I used were ~$2.50 each in quantities >10.  The Honeywell rotary HE sensor units were $45, IIRC. 

Regards

 

You are correct, I was thinking the three axis of flight, forgot one of them is my CH rudder pedals...LOL.....$45 for a hall effect IC is a ton of money, must be made out of solid gold. 

Edited by Bobsk8

PF3 Beta Tester

Bob Cardone        P3D 3,4       FlyVirtual.net   Aivlasoft EFB2  /pf3-supporter.gif

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

The price of $3.50 does not include the circuit board and the mechanical components. Essentially, the chip alone is useless.

As to the Thrustmaster, only a mass produced unit that sells potentially millions can justify the use of hall sensors. That is, if i were guaranteed 100,000 or more sales of my product, I would contract for 400,000 hall sensor pots at a great discount. This calculation does not apply on small quantities.

Clearly, Saitek had the market to go hall. They didn't because it added a few additional dollars net profit  per unit  to their sales.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, crosswind said:

Where PFC really should hang their heads is the cost of repairing the item (its almost the same as buying a new product from them).  I bought a defective yoke from them and sent it back 3 times before they could get it right, and I had to pay for shipping both ways on top of the repair costs.  While their products are well built for the most part, and will last for eons to come, they certainly do not entice simulation enthusiast to come back for upgrades or re-purchase.

The only time I will purchase stuff from PFC is if I am doing a professional build for a client.

PFC however, does offer hall effect sensors in their yokes (but you must specify when placing your order -which can now be done online), not sure about the throttle quads and rudder pedals.  Another solution is a fairly new competitor VirtualFly, makers of the Yoko yoke and throttle quadrants and they use hall effect sensors.  The price range is comparable to PFC's, and I think that the quality is just as good or even better.  MFG Crosswinds also makes a set of rudder pedals which has gotten rave reviews among the flight simulation community as well, and they to if I am not mistaken use hall effect sensors.

 

Cheers

Yeah I agree! My usb port stopped working in the back of my Cirrus 737 yoke and I opted to repair it myself. The parts cost my $250 with shipping from PFC. The parts probably cost PFC $10. I will never buy another product from them!


Pete Richards

Aussie born, Sydney ( YSSY ) living in Whitehorse, Yukon ( CYXY )

Windows 10, i7 8700K, MSI Z370 Gaming M5 Motherboard, EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW3, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz, 1TB Samsung 960 Pro NVMe, 500GB Crucial MX200 2.5" SSD, 4TB Seagate BarraCuda HD, Corsair RMx 750W PSU, Corsair H115i Liquid cooling, NZXT H440 Case.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, w6kd said:

I don't know of any stock rudder pedal units that use HE transducers.

The MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedal Units use Hall Effect transducers.  From their product page:

Unparalleled accuracy, longetivity and response time
High resolution contactless magnetic sensors guarantee high precision without degradation over time, making spikey potentiometers thing of the past. Modern electronics provide up to 500 updates per second

3rd generation triaxis digital Hall sensor on rudder axis ( 4096 positions ) and analog hall's for brakes ( 2048 positions per brake )

 

MFG Crosswind

 

Oops, just noticed that Yukon Pete already noted this.

Edited by jt_williams
Credit to Yukon Pete for noting MFG
  • Upvote 1

26aLetj.png

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, ErichB said:

No, the Yoke has Hall Effect sensors.  The Throttle Unit has potentiometers.

Correct.  Unfortunately my TQ6 lost one potentiometer while in warranty, but has now lost a seond one out of warranty (18 months since purchase) and I'll find out soon what the replacement cost will be.  Will post when I learn.


Forever indebted to the late Michael Greenblatt of FSGS.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, jt_williams said:

The MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedal Units use Hall Effect transducers.  From their product page:

Unparalleled accuracy, longetivity and response time
High resolution contactless magnetic sensors guarantee high precision without degradation over time, making spikey potentiometers thing of the past. Modern electronics provide up to 500 updates per second

3rd generation triaxis digital Hall sensor on rudder axis ( 4096 positions ) and analog hall's for brakes ( 2048 positions per brake )

 

MFG Crosswind

 

Oops, just noticed that Yukon Pete already noted this.

Have had mine for 18 months of heavy use and they work perfectly. The software is great.  When they get out whack from too many FSUIPC adjustments, they snap back every time.


Forever indebted to the late Michael Greenblatt of FSGS.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
58 minutes ago, wizzards said:

If you have a Saitek pro and feel the need to upgrade to hall effect sensors just have a go

Peter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5njrm5wbWk 

I don't have the skills to do anything like that. For those who do it seems they could make a fair bit of money but offering to upgrade yokes for customers.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

Share this post


Link to post

Gentlemen.... I'm looking to upgrade my yoke. I was considering a Yoko. I'm still unsure after searching and reading if the current Yoko use Hall sensors or not. Nothing from the vendors pages I see. I note a post here that VirtualFly is "rumored" to be adding them this year. I guess I should hold off if this is the case. Can anyone confirm current yokes DO NOT? Any thoughts appreciated!

Cheers,

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, Radial9 said:

Gentlemen.... I'm looking to upgrade my yoke. I was considering a Yoko. I'm still unsure after searching and reading if the current Yoko use Hall sensors or not. Nothing from the vendors pages I see. I note a post here that VirtualFly is "rumored" to be adding them this year. I guess I should hold off if this is the case. Can anyone confirm current yokes DO NOT? Any thoughts appreciated!

Cheers,

Bob

Wait till the first of the year( I think they said January). They will be releasing there new Yoko Yoke with Hall sensors and a hat switch.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    22%
    $5,540.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...