lidorx7

P3D V4 jagged edges

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys,

trying my luck again.

my rig: i7 8700, GTX1080 , DDR4 16GB at 3000, WIN10 

although i set 8XSGSS with Nvidia Inspector and 8XMSAA in the sim, the AA is still not sharp, from 2000 feet in the pmdg 737 the runway looks really really jagged and has stairs look, as well as high buildings and other autogen.

also the VC looks not sharp, the gauges and the text not clear, but when i zoom really close its really clean. 

what can cause that?

thank you.

 

 

Edited by lidorx7

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Posted (edited)

Make sure FXAA is off. I'm using 4xSSAA and 8xAF set in P3D (not inspector). It looks smooth enough without killing my framerate.

Could be one of the settings in Inspector hasn't saved, is causing a conflict or unsupported in P3D; tbh I don't think Inspector is necessary with most P3D setups.

Edited by ckyliu

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1 hour ago, lidorx7 said:

Hi guys,

trying my luck again.

my rig: i7 8700, GTX1080 , DDR4 16GB at 3000, WIN10 

although i set 8XSGSS with Nvidia Inspector and 8XMSAA in the sim, the AA is still not sharp, from 2000 feet in the pmdg 737 the runway looks really really jagged and has stairs look, as well as high buildings and other autogen.

also the VC looks not sharp, the gauges and the text not clear, but when i zoom really close its really clean. 

what can cause that?

thank you.

 

 

Hi,

8xSGSS is overkill and will bring your GPU to its knees as well as severely compromising performance. I used to use the 4xSGSSAA / 4xMSAA combination which did produce good results. However, in the end the performance hit proved to be too much for me to accept such a configuration for general use. 

Restore P3D defaults in Nvidia Inspector and Save.

Use 8xMSAA in Sim and, if enabled, uncheck FXAA. That works for me and provides a good workable balance between any performance impact, which is minimal, and visual appearance which is still very good.

Here are my Nvidia Control Panel settings:

NCP

Antialiasing - Mode: Enhance the application setting
Antialiasing - Setting: Use global setting (Application-controlled)    (entry greyed out)
Monitor Technology: Fixed Refresh 
(Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode)
Maximum pre-rendered frames: Use global setting (Use the 3D application setting)
Preferred refresh rate (Ancor Communications Inc ROG PG278Q): Use global setting (Highest available)
Power management mode: Prefer maximum performance
Texture Filtering - Anisotropic sample optimisation: Off
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality: High Quality
Texture filtering - Trilinear optimisation: Use global setting (On)
Triple buffering: Use global setting (Off)
Vertical sync: Use the 3D application setting

Incidentally, you can increase the Anisotropic Filtering to 16x without any noticeable performance impact.

Mike

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34 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Make sure FXAA is off. I'm using 4xSSAA and 8xAF set in P3D (not inspector). It looks smooth enough without killing my framerate.

Could be one of the settings in Inspector hasn't taken, is causing a conflict or unsupported in P3D; you shouldn't really need Inspector with P3D in most setups since you can set the required stuff in P3D anyway.

the FXAA is off, the only inspector settings is 8XSGSS and enhanced the application settings.

 

25 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi,

8xSGSS is overkill and will bring your GPU to its knees as well as severely compromising performance. I used to use the 4xSGSSAA / 4xMSAA combination which did produce good results. However, in the end the performance hit proved to be too much for me to accept such a configuration for general use. 

Restore P3D defaults in Nvidia Inspector and Save.

Use 8xMSAA in Sim and, if enabled, uncheck FXAA. That works for me and provides a good workable balance between any performance impact, which is minimal, and visual appearance which is still very good.

Mike

Mike,

with just 8XMSAA in the sim it looks so horrible like i cant even explain . it looks like a game from the 80'. thats why i went with Inspector. 

later today i wiil send a picture. 

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30 minutes ago, lidorx7 said:

Mike,

with just 8XMSAA in the sim it looks so horrible like i cant even explain . it looks like a game from the 80'. thats why i went with Inspector. 

later today i wiil send a picture. 

Note: I've edited my previous post to include my settings in NCP.

Monitor resolution?

When you post your picture, and if relevant, please include the geographic coordinates and I will try to reproduce the image and post same for comparison.

Are you experiencing any similar issues in other Games or Sims?

If all else fails then perhaps a Graphic Driver reinstall might be helpful. Always best to select the CLEAN install option during the driver installation.

Alternatively, I can recommend the use of the Display Driver Uninstaller utility which will ensure complete removal of the existing driver, including any remnants, before proceeding with a fresh install:

http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

Mike

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I set 8x MSAA in the P3D settings, and then 8xS AA and 4x SGSS in Nvidia Inspector. It all looks pretty smooth to me in P3D v3.4 with those settings at 1920x1080 resolution.

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1 hour ago, lidorx7 said:

the FXAA is off, the only inspector settings is 8XSGSS and enhanced the application settings.

Uncheck "enhance the application setting" and leave 8XSGSS only. It works this way, you need "enhance the application setting" only if you are going to set MSAA in nvidia inspector, which is not needed, since you should set this in P3D only. Your current Nvidia inspector settings could cause problems. 

Like others said, 8xSGSS looks to much to me, but it deppends on the resolution of your monitor and GPU. I have GTX 1060 6GB & 1920x1080 monitor resolution, and i can use 4xSGSS.

Be careful to always match MSAA and SGSS. 4xMSAA with 4xSGSS or 8xMSAA with 8xSGSS. I wrote this, becouse what you described can happen if there is a mismatch between those settings. Also, if you set MSAA in P3D, it must be set to "application controlled" in nvidia inspector(which is default). If you are going to use 8xSGSS, check what your GPU is doing, you can use GPU-Z for that, ensure that is not at 100% all the time. Try also 4xMSAA and 4xSGSS, i couldn't find the reason to go higher then that, it looks great with my 1920x1080 monitor. 

The only better thing for me is to use Nvidia DSR. If you have 4K monitor, you don't need any of this

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Posted (edited)

@lodestar very informative, I had a feeling it would be some kinda conflict but I wasn't technically competent enough to know exactly what. It does also reinforce my view that Inspector is not really necessary for most P3Dv4 installs and can create more problems then it solves in novice hands.

The same goes for cfg edits, tweaks and shaders, they just seem like a lot of hassle for very little benefit in P3Dv4 (not denying they were necessary with FSX though). The beauty of P3Dv4 is you don't need to spend hours tweaking, just install your addons and go flying!

Edited by ckyliu

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1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

@lodestar very informative, I had a feeling it would be some kinda conflict but I wasn't technically competent enough to know exactly what. It does also reinforce my view that Inspector is not really necessary for most P3Dv4 installs and can create more problems then it solves in novice hands.

The same goes for cfg edits, tweaks and shaders, they just seem like a lot of hassle for very little benefit in P3Dv4 (not denying they were necessary with FSX though). The beauty of P3Dv4 is you don't need to spend hours tweaking, just install your addons and go flying!

That's true. It seems that Nvidia Inspector author has slowed down development. The last update was 10 months ago, and it was just a minor update to FPS limiter. I belive it's much better to use Nvidia CP if you want to change some basic settings, like "high quality" or "Max Performance". If you change something in NCP, you can notice some other changes are done automatically, and i belive there is a reason for this. This doesn't happen with Nvidia Inspector, and my performance was worse. P3Dv4 works a bit different then FSX, this is why some traditional FSX tweaks are not going to make a difference. 

The only changes i made in Nvidia Control Panel are Texture Filtering to "High Quality"(and i'm not sure i'm seeing any difference)and Power Management Mode to "Prefer maximum performance". CFG is default, i'm using FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01 with PMDG 747 and FSL A320 only. I'm willing to sacrifice some visuals and to have a smooth performance with this addons. I'm not using this with Maddog, NGX, Majestic etc, it's not needed. I'm also using Nvidia DSR for better anti aliasing, instead of Inspector SGSS. It does put a much more load on GPU, so maybe a time to buy 4K monitor and better GPU :happy:

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Posted (edited)

so some news.. 

i did clean install of the driver and installed the newest one for my 1080. i did it like Mike recomended with the DDU.

resulution of 1360X768 which is my recomended for some reason. this is 1080p screen, 

and it worked really good with FSX

the thing is still here. some photos so you can see, please enlarge the pictures.

sorry its not it the order, i first tried only 8XSGSS, later i added NCP configurations like Mike said, after that i cleaned the NCP and added the inspector configurations (only 4XSGSS ) and did 4XMSAA in P3D. as you can see its much better with the SGSS but still not clear at all.

another thing to notice is that the GPU is working around 80-90% on 4XSGSS

the pictures are from KBOS Gate A4

 

4 XMSAA 4 XSGSS

4_XMSAA_4_XSGSS.jpg


 

4 XMSAA 4 XSGSS VC4_XMSAA_4_XSGSS_VC.jpg

8 MSAA+NCP OUT
8_MSAA_NCP_OUT.jpg

8XMSAA-OUT
8_MSAA_OUT.jpg

8MSAA VC
8MSAA_VC.jpg

4XSGSS on runway
on_runway_with_4_XSGSS.jpg
delete my

Edited by lidorx7

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Posted (edited)

I stopped using Nvidia Inspector since switching to P3D.
Isn't it redundant to use Nvidia Inspector when there is the Nvidia Control panel? And I don't use that either.

P3Dv4.2
Windows 10 Pro (64-Bit)
i7 6700K 4.0 GHz
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080

Click on images at Imgur for full size.

Spoiler

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Edited by Bills511

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Posted (edited)

If you have a 1080p screen, my suggested P3D settings:

Display:
FXAA off   
AA:  4XSSAA
texture filtering: anisotropic  8X
texture resolution: high 2048x2048
Vsync  off
Target framerate: unlimited
Wideview aspect: off
mipmap VC panels off
Screen resolution:  1920X1080  :smile:

Edited by Bert Pieke

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2 hours ago, lidorx7 said:

resulution of 1360X768 which is my recomended for some reason. this is 1080p screen

All the settings recommendations you're receiving will be of little use until you resolve this issue... you claim your monitor is 1080P yet your system is defaulting to 1360x768 res.  If need be, force the system to its default 1080P res.

Good luck,

Greg

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Hi lidorx7,

LOL! You’ve got me ‘worried’ now!

I’m assuming you are using 3rd Party Scenery for KBOS - FlyTampa? My default KBOS looks pretty naff in comparison so I didn’t feel any images from me would prove helpful. Indeed your overall image quality looks better than mine.

Anyway, I loaded the PMDG 737 at Gate A4 and, after close inspection, I formed the impression that our ‘jaggies’, when visible, are fairly comparable. Perhaps it all boils down to what we consider as being acceptable when weighed against desired performance. However, I have to say that I am unaware, most of the time, of any antialiasing shortcomings although I will admit to preferring the visual results while using the 4xSGSS/4xMSAA combo.

Frame rates were disappointing in and out of the VC: 17.5fps with frames locked at 30 and around 21fps with Unlimited. That’s with the default KBOS so I dread to think what FlyTampa would bring to my party. I watched their promo video which, as always with such videos, was smooth as silk. I suspect some arcane magic was involved.

My monitor’s native resolution is 2560 x 1440.

Regards,

Mike

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I stopped using Nvidia Inspector since switching to P3D.
Isn't it redundant to use Nvidia Inspector when there is the Nvidia Control panel?

No, it is not redundant. I am not able to use SGSS modes with the Nvidia Control Panel, and 4x SGSS makes a massive difference to the quality of the graphics in P3D v3.4 on my PC.

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ok so what i learned so far:

1. higher resolution mean less AA needed. 

2. Bills511 get really nice smooth picture without Inspector.

3. i really need to fix my resolution 

16 hours ago, lodestar said:

Uncheck "enhance the application setting" and leave 8XSGSS only. It works this way, you need "enhance the application setting" only if you are going to set MSAA in nvidia inspector, which is not needed, since you should set this in P3D only. Your current Nvidia inspector settings could cause problems. 

Like others said, 8xSGSS looks to much to me, but it deppends on the resolution of your monitor and GPU. I have GTX 1060 6GB & 1920x1080 monitor resolution, and i can use 4xSGSS.

Be careful to always match MSAA and SGSS. 4xMSAA with 4xSGSS or 8xMSAA with 8xSGSS. I wrote this, becouse what you described can happen if there is a mismatch between those settings. Also, if you set MSAA in P3D, it must be set to "application controlled" in nvidia inspector(which is default). If you are going to use 8xSGSS, check what your GPU is doing, you can use GPU-Z for that, ensure that is not at 100% all the time. Try also 4xMSAA and 4xSGSS, i couldn't find the reason to go higher then that, it looks great with my 1920x1080 monitor. 

The only better thing for me is to use Nvidia DSR. If you have 4K monitor, you don't need any of this

Lodestar,

you have to use DSR? what you get by just using the default AA in P3D with you 1920X1080 res? i also see that my card is under 80-90% load with 4XSGSS,

it is really bad for the card?

 

8 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi lidorx7,

LOL! You’ve got me ‘worried’ now!

I’m assuming you are using 3rd Party Scenery for KBOS - FlyTampa? My default KBOS looks pretty naff in comparison so I didn’t feel any images from me would prove helpful. Indeed your overall image quality looks better than mine.

Anyway, I loaded the PMDG 737 at Gate A4 and, after close inspection, I formed the impression that our ‘jaggies’, when visible, are fairly comparable. Perhaps it all boils down to what we consider as being acceptable when weighed against desired performance. However, I have to say that I am unaware, most of the time, of any antialiasing shortcomings although I will admit to preferring the visual results while using the 4xSGSS/4xMSAA combo.

Frame rates were disappointing in and out of the VC: 17.5fps with frames locked at 30 and around 21fps with Unlimited. That’s with the default KBOS so I dread to think what FlyTampa would bring to my party. I watched their promo video which, as always with such videos, was smooth as silk. I suspect some arcane magic was involved.

My monitor’s native resolution is 2560 x 1440.

Regards,

Mike

Hi Mike,

yes it is FlyTampa KBOS, im actually get 30-40 FPS in this scenery, somtimes 26.. depends on light and angles.

what GPU you have?

 

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It's worth noting that using DSR results in reduced scale text on screen. A good example would be the ATC window, or the ATIS messages. The characters will look very small unless you have a huge monitor.

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4 hours ago, lidorx7 said:

Hi Mike,

yes it is FlyTampa KBOS, im actually get 30-40 FPS in this scenery, somtimes 26.. depends on light and angles.

what GPU you have?

 

Ah, that explains it. 

My GPU is the 1080Ti (see signature). Looks like I need your advice rather than the other way around 😉

My flying habits tend to keep me well away from busy hubs (I prefer being out in the sticks or enjoying mountainous scenery) so frame rates are rarely a problem as I usually manage to maintain 30 quite easily. Still, it would be nice to see better performance in situations such as this. Sitting in the default F22 at KVPS while using my ‘Day Flights’ Display Profile I am seeing 60-70fps with the slider at Unlimited (with a virgin Prepar3D installation fps exceed 100). Default KBOS, for some reason, is presenting a tougher challenge. Perhaps, and somewhat paradoxically, the FlyTampa scenery is more frame rate friendly, this despite its added complexities. Maybe I should purchase and give it a go.

Locking your frame rates in the sim is much less GPU stressful. I usually see GPU usage anywhere between 60 and 70%. Using the Unlimited setting unleashes the GPU to render as many frames as possible while generating more heat. Fortunately the 3 fan cooling solution on mine seems pretty efficient. Using the Unlimited setting all the time seems somewhat unnecessary, however. Instead, I use the ‘Fibre Frame Fraction Dynamic’ utility along with a locked frame rate to adjust this sim variable on the fly depending on altitude. This helps to maintain frame rates, and hence performance, in more challenging situations. Somewhat disappointingly, and for whatever reason, it didn’t help much at the default KBOS 🙁

Mike

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Hey op. Good luck, I used to have exactly the same problems, so I reinstalled fsx and haven’t looked back.

didnt matter what I tried, those jagged edges persisted including with shadows in the cockpit. I still see the jagged edges on some streams on twitch with their high quality pc’s.

i know how frustrating it feels!

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39 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Ah, that explains it. 

My GPU is the 1080Ti (see signature). Looks like I need your advice rather than the other way around 😉

My flying habits tend to keep me well away from busy hubs (I prefer being out in the sticks or enjoying mountainous scenery) so frame rates are rarely a problem as I usually manage to maintain 30 quite easily. Still, it would be nice to see better performance in situations such as this. Sitting in the default F22 at KVPS while using my ‘Day Flights’ Display Profile I am seeing 60-70fps with the slider at Unlimited (with a virgin Prepar3D installation fps exceed 100). Default KBOS, for some reason, is presenting a tougher challenge. Perhaps, and somewhat paradoxically, the FlyTampa scenery is more frame rate friendly, this despite its added complexities. Maybe I should purchase and give it a go.

Locking your frame rates in the sim is much less GPU stressful. I usually see GPU usage anywhere between 60 and 70%. Using the Unlimited setting unleashes the GPU to render as many frames as possible while generating more heat. Fortunately the 3 fan cooling solution on mine seems pretty efficient. Using the Unlimited setting all the time seems somewhat unnecessary, however. Instead, I use the ‘Fibre Frame Fraction Dynamic’ utility along with a locked frame rate to adjust this sim variable on the fly depending on altitude. This helps to maintain frame rates, and hence performance, in more challenging situations. Somewhat disappointingly, and for whatever reason, it didn’t help much at the default KBOS 🙁

Mike

Hi Mike,

sounds like you have a one of the sliders or few, way too much to the right. (your 1080TI is very strong but still, those are really things you cant go maxed)

there is few of them that are FPS killers, send me your settings i will try to see if its there.

hopefully in the 4.3 we can use them, i still need to check 🙂

 

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7 hours ago, lidorx7 said:

Lodestar,

you have to use DSR? what you get by just using the default AA in P3D with you 1920X1080 res? i also see that my card is under 80-90% load with 4XSGSS,

it is really bad for the card?

I'm not using DSR all the time, but it looks better then 4xSGSS to me. Also, i don't use default ATC and i actually don't like in-sim text messages, so no problems with that. 

With default resolution i can many jaggies and shimmering at distance. It's not so bad, but once i tried DSR i decided to start saving for a 4K monitor and new GPU.

Under 80-90% is ok, and it's not really bad for GPU. I like to leave some room here for detailed airports and clouds, becouse there is a FPS hit with GPU at 100%

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