Intel i9 9900k to hit 5GHZ - Do you have one Rob?!

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Noel said:

44F air blowing gently directly into that air cooler

That same 44F air blowing on the radiator and/or inlet fans (pending setup) would be more efficient use of cool air ... pending the size of your radiator that 44F cooler air would be used more effectively over a wider area to increase heat exchange from the water as it flow thru radiators.

Define AIO?  That definition seems to have changed over the years as more and more kits are released, some AIO kits are very robust, others not so much.  But my reference point is "custom loop" not AIO ... I would actually have more trust for a custom loop to be leak free vs. AIO kit (assuming you mean sealed and all tubing/connections already in place).  Custom loops these days are excellent and even come with pressure caps set to release as needed to reduce pressure buildup as heat exchange increases ... they also have flow meters and water temp sensors all with alarms that can be hooked into one's PC for automatic shutdown.

However, custom loops do cost more and take more installation work.  I can't determine "value" for you, but I agree that a NH-D15 is a more cost effective solution even if not the best thermal solution.  Bang for buck it's hard to beat the NH-D15, but your 44F just doesn't factor in as I'm assuming that 44F air could just as easily be directed towards a radiator.  Just curious, are you worried about condensation (assuming your ambient is a higher)?

Water cooling is still reliant on air flow (same as how a car operates in a hot day sitting in traffic with no air flow, the radiator fans will turn on at a temp threshold to blow air thru the radiator).  Sizing the radiators is important as there is a point of diminishing returns and also depends on what sort of fan speed you want to run ... for example if I ran two 480 rads with 8 fans for just the CPU loop, I could opt to run the fans at lower speeds (almost silent running) and still have excellent cooling ... but the more rads one adds the better performing pump one needs ... adding 480 rad and flow/temp meter/sensor will drop flow rate from 1.9 to 1.0 GPM.  It's important to size the pump based on what one plans to use in the loop ... and many pumps also come with variable speed motors to optimize heat exchange ... to high a flow rate can trigger cavitation (most likely in the CPU water block itself).

Bang for buck then go with the NH-D15, or go custom loop and skip AIO.

My 2 cents.

Cheers, Rob.

[Noel 4,496]

2 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

However, custom loops do cost more and take more installation work.  I can't determine "value" for you, but I agree that a NH-D15 is a more cost effective solution even if not the best thermal solution.  Bang for buck it's hard to beat the NH-D15, but your 44F just doesn't factor in as I'm assuming that 44F air could just as easily be directed towards a radiator.  Just curious, are you worried about condensation (assuming your ambient is a higher)?\

Bang for buck then go with the NH-D15, or go custom loop and skip AIO.

My 2 cents.

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks for your thoughts.   The air temp coming out of the A/C can get down to 44F or lower, but that is only when it's adjusted to max at one of any 3 fan levels so is on constantly to the max.  Normally I'm only running it at the low to middle level so the compressor cycles on an off while the fan maintains at its low-med-high settings.  I don't use hardly any of the potential cooling I could get by routing the air flow more directly towards the large intake fan of the HAF-X case, so really I'm cooling the entire exterior of the case and some cool air goes into the case via its intake fan.   But as stated, it's clearly enough for this SB-E at 4.42 w/ HT on.  During the winter when ambient is closer to 68F in my PC room typically I can get away w/ no A/C, or sometimes I will just run it in 'fan only' mode.    So no, no worries about condensation.   That I've been able to run at this clockspeed for going on 6 years now w/ many hours per day is pretty good testimony it's working well.   I think if I didn't have the A/C I would definitely pursuit a custom loop but for now I think the NH-D15 will be good enough, and a bit simpler it would appear.  

[martin-w 3,235]

On 7/31/2018 at 4:38 PM, Noel said:

  I would consider water cooling as long as it's really reliable and can't leak!  

 

Ha, "can't leak" isn't possible I'm afraid Noel. 

[martin-w 3,235]

19 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

No, water cooled will always perform better provided sufficient radiator specification for task at hand.  BUT, some air coolers can get close like the NH-D15 ... 

Edited August 1, 2018 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,235]

I wonder how long I've been saying the above. 😊

Oh the endless arguments. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by martin-w

[TuFun 434]

Never realize how big that cooler was!

Water vs NH-D15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw4HONEkj4s

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Ha, "can't leak" isn't possible I'm afraid Noel.

Well if you're going to support "fear" ... in that case, a motherboard can crack/bend over time and heat under the weight of the NH-D15, especially vertical mounted and not only that the contact pressure is uneven across the CPU core thanks to gravity.

[AAN1718A 20]

On ‎07‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:32 AM, dmarques69 said:

A lot of cooling power that boy is going to need to hit those values, the i7 8700k can also hit 5GHZ, but needs to be delidded.

I run the i8700 at 5ghz on a Kraken NZX without issue under load, temps in the upper 60's. No de-lidding necessary. Just make sure you got adequate cooling..

[dmarques69 316]

1 minute ago, AAN1718A said:

I run the i8700 at 5ghz on a Kraken NZX without issue under load, temps in the upper 60's. No de-lidding necessary. Just make sure you got adequate cooling..

Well im seeing a lot of people saying that, which i found surprising, not only based in my experience but on the reviews on this processor an others that i personally know... i have a good cooler, maybe not good enough, theres always another factor that we forgot to say, the room temp, i average 25/26c in my office in the current summer, maybe you guys all live in Siberia 😀

[martin-w 3,235]

22 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Well if you're going to support "fear" ... in that case, a motherboard can crack/bend over time and heat under the weight of the NH-D15, especially vertical mounted and not only that the contact pressure is uneven across the CPU core thanks to gravity.

 

 We had the conversation about this ages ago. Again... no motherboard anywhere has been  confirmed to have warped, cracked or bent over time as a result of the D14/D15.  Secufirm 2 does it's job admirably. My old D14 is still in my sons PC, been in the same system for years, must be about eight years now, no warping, cracking or any other issues. My D15 the same in my previous PC, my current D15S, the same, no issues whatsoever. What you don't do though is ship it long distance with cooler attached, that would be madness given how couriers treat stuff. 

Static load is higher by design because it improves cooling and dynamic load is less than Intel spec, thanks to secufirm 2.

 

Quote

Well if you are going to support fear

 

I have no idea what you mean Rob. I'm not supporting fear. Noel asked for a water cooler where leaks were "impossible". Just pointing out that that would be impossible. Surely you don't believe custom loops are impervious to any kind of leaking? I have no issue with you or anyone installing a custom loop or AIO, in fact the PC I built for my daughter recently has an AIO. Zero supporting of fear here. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by martin-w

[TuFun 434]

Latest on Noctua coolers. New smaller version just as good as the big one!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0O0ZqY9r58

[martin-w 3,235]

3 minutes ago, TuFun said:

Latest on Noctua coolers. New smaller version just as good as the big one!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0O0ZqY9r58

 

 

Yes I saw that in a Paul's Hardware Computex video i think it was. looks really interesting.  

Two new prototypes as well, that promise to improve on the D15. One a single stack one a duel stack. And offset design like the D15S for compatibility with RAM. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

have no idea what you mean Rob. I'm not supporting fear. Noel asked for a water cooler where leaks were "impossible". Just pointing out that that would be impossible. Surely you don't believe custom loops are impervious to any kind of leaking?

If done correctly they don't leak within a 10 year period ... possibly longer, but not sure many hold onto PC's > 10 years (I haven't).  Anyway, my point was there is no need to "fear" leaks ... it's equivalent to fearing that heavy massive D15 is going to warp a motherboard to the point of failure 🙂.  It has happened and it's pretty rare and not ALL information is required to make it to the Internet.  But, I still maintain why risk uneven distribution of force on the CPU with the D15 and a vertical mounted motherboard? ... no matter the clamping system, gravity will be working against it on a vertical mount over many heat cycles.

And if one plans to delid and NOT replace the HSI (the most effective use of delid) for direct contact with block, then the D15 will not be a great choice for that scenario (assuming there is a mounting kit specific for the D15 and no HSI).

But I've always agreed with you that it's a good cheap and less hassle alternative if one is willing to sacrifice a few degrees under loads, but where the D15 starts to fail on cooling under loads is when OC is very high.

Cheers, Rob.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Most of the FUD regarding water cooling stems from the early days when DIY stuff predominated. The premade water kits are reliable. Are they 100%? Of course not. But if you are going to worry about leaks you might as well worry about that overweight Noctua warping your Mobo.

Edited August 2, 2018 by jabloomf1230

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

But if you are going to worry about leaks you might as well worry about that overweight Noctua warping your Mobo.

Yes, a more direct way of stating my observations over the years.  Don't "fear" the 0.00002% chance of having a problem.

Cheers, Rob.