Proven that we can argue about anything and everything.

The sky is Blue, by the way.

 

 

I'm glad some folks found my guide useful. If you have suggestions for improvements or requests for other modules, I'm all ears.

Edited October 19, 20187 yr by Chuck_Owl

Yes, found it very useful, thanks again!

Great document! Though, that picture with Malaysian Boeing 777 surrounded by radars is kinda ironic 😛

Great! Is there any equivalent guide for the B747-8?

Hi,

Great guide indeed. However, I would not everything as face value as there are few mistakes in it.

I just skimmed through but for instance, the complete preflight flow is wrong. It says set all the lights to ON (including the strobe and landing lights before the pushback). These lights are set to on only when entering the runway for takeoff, not before.

Also weather radar is not set to on at gate before pushback to avoid health hazard to the ground crew.

Set transponder to 2200, standard IFR code in uncontrolled airspace is 2000.

 

 

On 10/17/2018 at 8:37 PM, DaveCT2003 said:

The sky is Blue, by the way.

Only as long as there are no chemtrails around.

47 minutes ago, Budbud said:

Hi,

Great guide indeed. However, I would not everything as face value as there are few mistakes in it.

I just skimmed through but for instance, the complete preflight flow is wrong. It says set all the lights to ON (including the strobe and landing lights before the pushback). These lights are set to on only when entering the runway for takeoff, not before.

Also weather radar is not set to on at gate before pushback to avoid health hazard to the ground crew.

Set transponder to 2200, standard IFR code in uncontrolled airspace is 2000.

 

 

Regarding the strobes: normally yes. But there‘s nothing wrong to use them whenever you are somewhere you need to be seen prior to behave considerately. For example when it‘s a little foggy and or rainy and you are close to hotspots on the taxiway or there is a lot of traffic around at the apron it‘s not wrong to turn the strobes on. Just like yellow beacons on cars. It’s more or less used as a warning signal, too. 

Also I‘ve flown on an A320 at night where they turned them off when we were entering high clouds as they were really really bright for us in the cabin.

It looks good.

55 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

Regarding the strobes: normally yes. But there‘s nothing wrong to use them whenever you are somewhere you need to be seen prior to behave considerately. For example when it‘s a little foggy and or rainy and you are close to hotspots on the taxiway or there is a lot of traffic around at the apron it‘s not wrong to turn the strobes on. Just like yellow beacons on cars. It’s more or less used as a warning signal, too. 

I shy away from the use of strobes any time I'm not runway-to-runway. In your instance, they'd become a huge distraction to anyone around you, and if it's that foggy or rainy, other crews still need to be concentrating on other things. Logo and wing will be enough.

Sure...there's no requirement for a particular behavior, but having both worked the ramp, and flown the things, you need to properly balance being seen with operating appropriately with the needs of others around you - they need their night vision and concentration, too.

I echo Romain's comments on the lights. Back when I worked the ramp, I probably would've visited the deck to have a chat if I noticed the plane light up like that in prep for a flight. Not only did the rampies have this weird old wive's tale about the landing lights sending out x-ray-like radiation that could damage your eyes/skin (not even kidding - I mean, yeah, staring at them will eventually cause damage, but not in the way radiation would), a move like that is just kind of obnoxious. At a specific area of the ramp, you had about 6 aircraft surrounding you (usually departing within 15-20 min of each other). If they all did that, it would turn into a rave-like mess, and that area of the ramp was already a mess of baggage carts, lav carts, pushback trucks, rampies, planes, ops vans and so on. The last thing we needed was a light show providing even more distraction.

2 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

I shy away from the use of strobes any time I'm not runway-to-runway. In your instance, they'd become a huge distraction to anyone around you, and if it's that foggy or rainy, other crews still need to be concentrating on other things. Logo and wing will be enough.

Sure...there's no requirement for a particular behavior, but having both worked the ramp, and flown the things, you need to properly balance being seen with operating appropriately with the needs of others around you - they need their night vision and concentration, too.

I echo Romain's comments on the lights. Back when I worked the ramp, I probably would've visited the deck to have a chat if I noticed the plane light up like that in prep for a flight. Not only did the rampies have this weird old wive's tale about the landing lights sending out x-ray-like radiation that could damage your eyes/skin (not even kidding - I mean, yeah, staring at them will eventually cause damage, but not in the way radiation would), a move like that is just kind of obnoxious. At a specific area of the ramp, you had about 6 aircraft surrounding you (usually departing within 15-20 min of each other). If they all did that, it would turn into a rave-like mess, and that area of the ramp was already a mess of baggage carts, lav carts, pushback trucks, rampies, planes, ops vans and so on. The last thing we needed was a light show providing even more distraction.

Sure thing, you certainly don't want any exaggerated misuse of any lights. And if there are 10 airliners playing disco party on the apron at night you get completely dizzy, that's just like those strobes on the dance floor. But a couple of years back I did some landings in EDDS and EDSB with a C172 (to have some international (or regional) airports in my logbook) and all above in Stuttgart (first one) I sometimes really went for the strobes. With a 767 coming from left and a 737 behind me I really prefered to drawn their attention to me.. But admittedly, it was day and VMC 😃 And with a 737 between five 747s, A380 and I don't know what else in Schiphol I would certainly also think about turning them on... 

But yes, definitely it's not a light that should be used just for the sake of having it. I've seen this once on the ground when I was picking up my parents at the airport at a stormy night and another airplane taxied in with strobes and landing lights on. They switched them all off the moment they turned to the gate but I was directly hit by those flares and for a few seconds I just saw a red spot. 

As said above, there are certainly some exception but since this guide is meant to describe normal operation, I would stick to the standard operations which are:

taxi lights on when cleared to taxi, strobe light and landing lights when entering the runway (though for some companies, part of the landing lights are on when entering the runway and the rest when cleared for takeoff).

Weather radar on when clear of areas where ground personnel may be exposed.

Anyway, back to the guide, still looks like a great guide with some reservations though.

2 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

Sure thing, you certainly don't want any exaggerated misuse of any lights. And if there are 10 airliners playing disco party on the apron at night you get completely dizzy, that's just like those strobes on the dance floor. But a couple of years back I did some landings in EDDS and EDSB with a C172 (to have some international (or regional) airports in my logbook) and all above in Stuttgart (first one) I sometimes really went for the strobes. With a 767 coming from left and a 737 behind me I really prefered to drawn their attention to me.. But admittedly, it was day and VMC 😃 And with a 737 between five 747s, A380 and I don't know what else in Schiphol I would certainly also think about turning them on... 

I find this wholly unnecessary, and the only attention it would draw from most - I'd argue - is commentary on the action being inappropriate.

As a DCA tower controller famously stated on frequency a while back, though: "you're the captain of the ship..."

29 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

But yes, definitely it's not a light that should be used just for the sake of having it. I've seen this once on the ground when I was picking up my parents at the airport at a stormy night and another airplane taxied in with strobes and landing lights on. They switched them all off the moment they turned to the gate but I was directly hit by those flares and for a few seconds I just saw a red spot. 

More often than not, lights being on in a non-standard situation is simply the pilots forgetting checklists. I've had pilots roll up with all kinds of oddities - flaps out, landing lights still blasting away...

I guess I can let that stand valid as it is as you have much more experience in that stuff than me, I have only had 83 hours until I could forget about aviation, probably 95% of the landings at uncontrolled strips with about 700m runway xD and all that was 10 years ago.. but I wouldn‘t care about anyone looking down their nose at me because I was not completely complying with the standards of the professionals who do this every day...sure, if sonething is written down then I would certainly not do my own thing... but e.g. there‘s no definite law in Germany to drive with a low beam headlight during daytime... but in certain conditions I turn it on anyway.. on the highway with many trucks around for example... or in the forest... and as long as there‘s no harm done I was used to use the strobes.. 🤷‍♂️

 

(but of course lighting up your plane at the gate is a bad idea)

On the other hand, I was waiting in  a Bo for a B737 to land on a damp, cloudy day.  After he landed and left the runway, he said that the "little guy should have had more lights on so we could see him."   YMMV.