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jahn

Need to educate myself with GPU technology

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Hi there everyone,

I hope this post is made in the right sub-forum. As I've stated elsewhere I'm new to this forum and have returned to the world of flight sims after a 14 year absence. That's why I am out of touch with the technology. It appears these days that   ___the___ most fundamental component affecting smooth performance of a flight sim ( P3D ) with complex add-ons loaded ( PMDG and ORBX ) would be the Graphics Processing Card GPU.

I have a technical background and know CPU's RAM etc but almost nothing about modern GPU technology.

Can I ask for hints and pointers to on-line resources, tutorials or videos that would help me thoroughly understand GPUs so I can make educated choices when selecting a GPU for complex flight simming?

I've tried googling but the information in a lot of links is out of date and I am so out of touch with this aspect that I'm also experiencing trouble judging the relevance of my findings.

Kind Regards

Jahn Drink

 

P.S.: I don't mean to offend anyone...so should I have posted a tabu topic or posted to the wrong sub-forum please advise...Thanks!

Edited by jahn

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Hi Jahn,
              I'm in a similar position as you are in that i am returning after around 13 years, and understandably have lots of questions about advances in technology.

My understanding is that P3D is quite CPU intensive, more so than other games, so as important as a good GPU is, a good CPU is possibly more important to avoid bottlenecks. That's my understanding anyway. (It could be wrong!)

I had my eyes set on a 9900K and RTX 2080 Ti but I'm just not sold on the cost V performance aspect at the moment. I'm also waiting on CES 2019 (which is less than a week away) to see if anything interesting comes from that before i buy.


Some links that might be useful...
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/717-gpu-dictionary-understanding-gpu-video-card-specs

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gpu-buying-guide,review-34583.html

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/the-best-graphics-cards/

https://www.gamingscan.com/best-graphics-cards-for-gaming/
 



HTH

 

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@jahn, back in the days of FSX 80+% of the processing was done by the CPU and the choice of graphics cards wasn't that critical. You needed the fastest CPU you couldn't afford! :biggrin:

That all started to change when Lockheed-Martin introduced P3D v1. They moved more of the work onto the GPU with each major version. These days it's probably closer to a 50-50 split of the workload so P3D benefits most from both a fast CPU and GPU.

When I bought a second-hand GTX 1080 replacing my old GTX 780 (8Gb versus 3Gb) I expected big improvements in FSX. The reality was frame rates were no better at complex airports like Aerosoft Heathrow. That's because FSX depended so much on the CPU and the GPU didn't really matter. If I'd stayed with FSX I was wasting the power of the 1080.

The new GTX 2080Ti cards take advantage of Ray-tracing but P3D doesn't have that and we don't know when it will. So the 2080Ti cards are hardly any faster than the 1080Ti but cost around 40% more.

The best combo for P3D at present is an i7-8700K, i7-8086K or i9-9xxx processor together with a 1080Ti but those are getting hard to find. Hope that helps. The link provided by @pracines is a good source of info too. But this place is best for guidance on cards for P3D.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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6 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The new GTX 2080Ti cards take advantage of Ray-tracing but P3D doesn't have that and we don't know when it will. So the 2080Ti cards are hardly any faster than the 1080Ti but cost around 40% more.

It depends, I think, on what you mean by faster.

Its true that frames rates under normal situations are only a little higher, where the 2080ti and others shine in P3D is in all the other settings. Essentially, with these cards you can max out all the special effects (shadow quality, shadow distance, all objects both casting and receiving, dynamic lighting, cloud distance and density etc) with little discernible effect on FPS if you have a powerful system.

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Just now, HiFlyer said:

It depends, I think, on what you mean by faster.

Its true that frames rates under normal situations are only a little higher, where the 2080ti and others shine in P3D is in all the other settings. Essentially, with these cards you can max out all the special effects (shadow quality, shadow distance, all objects both casting and receiving, dynamic lighting, cloud distance and density etc) with little discernible effect on FPS if you have a powerful system.

I suppose if you fly low and slow you'll see the benefits of those settings but with IFR flights probably less so. Horses for courses. And to be honest I could probably push my sliders more to the right but I see plenty as things are.

Let's face it, when you're coming in to land in an Airbus, Boeing or for me, eventually - Concorde - looking out of the window and admiring the view is probably not a wise move. :biggrin:

But overall I agree that all these special effects do add to the realism.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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Hi there everyone,

since some of you seem much more knowledgable in this area, I'm being offered a tempting bargain deal on a second hand ( as new ) Dell Precision tower 3620 with the following specs:

CPU:   Xeon E-3 1240 v5 4 Core 3.5 GHz 8MB chache

GPU:  Nvidia Quadro 4 core with 2 GB ram

Essentially it is a Dell workstation that I can buy second hand at a bargain price.

Would this be good enough for P3D and PMDG 737 simulation? I know does not have a gaming card, rather it has a four core workstation grade card?

Greame, Paul, Ray and Hiflyer...many thanks once more for the feedback.

Regards

Jahn Drink

 

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@jahn, I very much doubt it. As a second networked PC it would be fine for running moving map software and the like.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

The new GTX 2080Ti cards take advantage of Ray-tracing but P3D doesn't have that and we don't know when it will. So the 2080Ti cards are hardly any faster than the 1080Ti but cost around 40% more.

The best combo for P3D at present is an i7-8700K, i7-8086K or i9-9xxx processor together with a 1080Ti but those are getting hard to find. Hope that helps. The link provided by @pracines is a good source of info too. But this place is best for guidance on cards for P3D.

Sorry Ray I believe your GPU comparison to be highly inaccurate.  As for cpu’s why wouldn’t u include the 9600K and 9700K?


Matt Wilson

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58 minutes ago, mpw8679 said:

Sorry Ray I believe your GPU comparison to be highly inaccurate.  As for cpu’s why wouldn’t u include the 9600K and 9700K?

Instead if criticising p someone trying to help why don’t you offer your own advice? I didn’t include the 9xxx series as 1) the OP was up to speed with CPUs and 2) I consider them overpriced.

Highly inaccurate but you don’t say why. 😞 Hmmm.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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3 hours ago, jahn said:

Hi there everyone,

since some of you seem much more knowledgable in this area, I'm being offered a tempting bargain deal on a second hand ( as new ) Dell Precision tower 3620 with the following specs:

CPU:   Xeon E-3 1240 v5 4 Core 3.5 GHz 8MB chache

GPU:  Nvidia Quadro 4 core with 2 GB ram

Essentially it is a Dell workstation that I can buy second hand at a bargain price.

Would this be good enough for P3D and PMDG 737 simulation? I know does not have a gaming card, rather it has a four core workstation grade card?

Greame, Paul, Ray and Hiflyer...many thanks once more for the feedback.

Regards

Jahn Drink

 

2 GB of VRAM on the GPU is not going to cut it.. unfortunately.

Aim for 8 GB or more.. GTX 1070 is OK..


Bert

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Posted (edited)

There's an interesting YouTube video on the future of Nvidia and Jensen CEO, and there could be trouble ahead I can`t past a link it will not work for me but it`s interesting.   

It`s by Coreteks called "Profile Jensen Huang"

Edited by rjfry

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Raymond Fry.

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12 hours ago, rjfry said:

It`s by Coreteks called "Profile Jensen Huang"

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/548177-jensen-huang-is-this-his-last-year-as-nvidia-ceo/

 


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On 12/31/2018 at 7:49 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

So the 2080Ti cards are hardly any faster than the 1080Ti but cost around 40% more.

No, I have to disagree here.  In my experience the 2080Ti has proven considerably more powerful than the 1080Ti.  I replaced a twin 1080Ti SLI setup with a single 2080Ti, and get better performance from the 2080Ti in P3Dv4.

A 1080Ti is a good choice (if you can find one now), especially if the 2080Ti price waters your eyes, but it's no longer cutting edge.

Regards


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5 minutes ago, w6kd said:

No, I have to disagree here.  In my experience the 2080Ti has proven considerably more powerful than the 1080Ti.  I replaced a twin 1080Ti SLI setup with a single 2080Ti, and get better performance from the 2080Ti in P3Dv4.

A 1080Ti is a good choice (if you can find one now), especially if the 2080Ti price waters your eyes, but it's no longer cutting edge.

Regards

Well I never had a 2080Ti to do the comparison. I just went off reviews I read / watched. But given the eye watering price of the 2080Ti I baulked at buying it and opted for the still available 1080Ti.

Glad I did as they’re now virtually unobtainable here. In fairness, I never said the 1080Ti was cutting edge. Just far better value than the 2080Ti.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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